Karaoke Forums

I have to agree with lyquiddye  the Bose L1/B2 system is an excellent choice.

I was a conventional PA KJ for many years. I was on vacation and visited a show in LA that had the Bose System and I was totally floored at the performance of the system.

When I went to Guitar Center for a demo they did not have a clue how to properly gain stage the system and use the EQ presets. When I heard it in their store I was not impressed at all, it was nothing like I heard in LA. So I decided to take advantage of the Bose 45 day Trial and once I read the manual and followed the suggestions on presets and gain staging the system "Rocked"

The only folks who boo hoo it are the ones who have not used it in a Live Karaoke show. I'm amazed at those who will shoot it down without having experienced it first hand.

I have never rec'd so many compliments (unsolicited) on any other system. It's a regular occurence at all of my gigs (Bars or Private Gigs) So regardless of what others say, I tend to listen to my customers and what they have to say.

Hey! The Bose system is not for everyone or every application but it fits my venues like a glove.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I have experienced the Bose L1.

The karaoke "club" I attend, on occasion, replaced Yamaha's with the Bose.  I am quite impressed with what that one "tower" does.  However, the "club" is an extremely small venue (about 22' wide), so I cannot make a recommendation regarding how they will work elsewhere.

I did note problems the last time I was there with feedback and with the highs.  When I recommended that the mic be lowered and the echo lessened, both problems went away!  The guy was a new KJ at the place and I don't know what his experience was, in general.  I would imagine "everyone" is new to the Bose L1?

PS:  The Fender is using Bose technology in its Passport speakers

Occasionally I get feedback like every other system will get. I do have to say I can stand directly in front of the system with mic pointed towards it and not get feedback. However if I point the mic at the floor it will sometimes feedback.

I only use 1/3 volume in my venues, no need to go louder.  The db's drop off after like 30 feet but the clarity and ability to hear the singer is perfect at the back of the room. Many folks like that as they like to have a conversation

I'm sitting 10 feet away from the tower and can have a normal conversation with anyone at the booth. Yet the Volume is loud.  It's Very Different

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

That is because the two portions of the L1 receive different channels. If you use their "tone match" mixer, then it sends the vocals to the top and the music to the bottom. This prevents feedback when someone is standing next to the speaker, unless the mic is pointed down.

The Bose is OK, but I think any system eq-ed properly rocks. As I learn more about sound and my ear gets better and better, I realize that the vast majority of karaoke shows have really crappy sound and that they could really benefit from a proper system ring-out and eq.

Yeah once I started using the T1 Mixer feedback was almost completely eliminated.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

does the Passport 250 or 500 have an output for a crossover and subwoofer?

Randy

I am not technical versed enough to tackle that question.  I do know that the only speakers that can be relied upon to work properly (through the speakers outputs) are the Fenders.

I will make a call to tech support to see if there are any options for attaching subs.  Or, if someone else with more knowledge would like to call, I'll be happy to provide the ph#.  So, let's sit on it a day or two.  

I wonder if powered subs could be accommodated through the "taping output"? Any ideas?

I've heard the Bose L1 in use twice. In both cases it was a small venue, and it sounded okay.

The problem I have is that the system has zero versatility. If you ever get a gig bigger than 25 people and a small room, forget it. If you want to upgrade, what is you path?

I have done research on this system, and talked directly with the Bose techs on a number of occasions with total exasperation being the result. When you ask for simple technical specifications like power output (watts) or sound pressure level (SPL), they give you the line "Bose doesn't use that type of measurement". But, the rest of the industry does. How do I compare you to any other system. "Oh that's easy, you listen to the fabulous sound quality"

Bose lives and dies on the marketing. They are a marketing company first and formost, and a technical company as a secondary result of marketing. They sell the "black box theory" to the hilt, and really there is very little innovative about their products, but they have produced an image that they are innovative. Go to Radio Shack and buy a bunch of 3" speakers and glue them to a pole. Get a 25 watt amplifier off of Ebay. You'll get close to the same sound for about $100.

I'm sorry, this is the most flagrant snake oil product I have ever seen. Take the $2000 and buy a mid-priced component system, or find a used system. Don't buy a Bose system.

Dennisgb

I know very little about anything regarding specs, but I do know when I hear a sound I like.

So, I must ask, why would Fender, who has been around forever, use and promote the fact that Bose technology is part of their Passport speakers?

Also, why are you so sure that the sound of the L1 will deteriorate with a crowd of 25 or more?  You indicated you've experienced them only twice?

Again,  I've heard the L1's on several occasions.  On the last occasion a new Kj clearly had it set up wrong and it didn't sound very good until I suggested he make some adjustments.

PS: A friend of mine with many different speaker systems uses and prefers the Bose 802's

Eric,

I think on this one we should just agree to disagree.

If you like the sound that's all that matters.

The price alone should make the Bose system a NO go for most KJ's on a budget.

Like most of Bose Products they are meant for the audiophile with some money to burn....I admit I have not heard the BOSE in action. I'm sure for a very small room they sound awsome and DO ALL THEY ADVERSTISE to do.

But come on $2500 for a pa system for a small room seems a little MUCH ?
Oh you have a medium room thats no problem just buy 2 of them ...$5000 for s a medium room.   OH so now you want KICK (@$%&#!) BASS ...... really can't do that

I'm sorry Dennis but you have no base of facts to work from. I just did a wedding at the Embassy Suites in downtown Portland the room was 100 x 75 and had dense carpeting and elaborate decorations including heavy draperies and there were just under 200 guests in attendance. I never had one problem with volume or dissipation of sound and I was at about 1/2 of the master volume. I rec'd numerous compliments on sound and clarity other than I was asked one time to turn it down a bit. The dance floor was rockin' yet folks were able to socialize. I was very impressed with the performance of the system in that application as there were so many factors in the makeup of the room that could rob volume. One thing I have noted is that the larger the area the better the system performs. The dispersion throughout the room was incredible.

Just because Bose does not use the same specifications that the rest of the industry uses it does not make them snake oil salesmen it just makes them different. When your system is perfectly integrated and matched the need for power can greatly vary. I've had systems with 2000 watts that don't have the bottom end and clarity that my 750 watts has. It's not in the numbers, everything is perfectly matched and it's all about how it performs in a live application. Sound does not have to be blasted with mega-watts to be heard clearly and it does not have to assault the listeners ear to be appreciated unless you are at a concert, then it is expected.

Unless you have used one of these yourself, or have been where someone has the system dialed in properly you have no idea of what the capabilities are. It is just like any other system, unless the person that is running it knows how to dial it in the performance can be crappy or excellent. Bose is no different.

I have used this system for crowds in excess of 200 and have had no problems with volume nor have I had any complaints. If I have an event that exceeds 250 I would add anonther L1 and B2 combination. You can pick them up on Ebay for $1600 regularly. The new model 2 is out of my price range but the model 1 is just perfect.

This is a typical response I would expect from someone who has no direct hands on experience with Bose, and while it is not a fair assessment you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

This guy asked a question about new equipment recommendations and we were responding, then all of a sudden you guys jump in and start slamming Bose....Why?
What is it about Bose that makes people do this? I say lack of understanding of what Bose is and what it is not. As I stated it's not for everyone, but I think it lends itself very well to the DJ and KJ market.

I have to agree with you on one thing though Bose is great at marketing, so much so that it gives me a competitive edge in the marketplace. If it comes down to sound systems the Bose name has made the difference in getting the gig and the price I command.  Snake Oil? I think not.

All I'm saying is let's stop the Bose Slamming and help this guy...OK?

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Whatever.

Flipper, you say:

Unless you have used one of these yourself, or have been where someone has the system dialed in properly you have no idea of what the capabilities are.

and

It's not in the numbers, everything is perfectly matched and it's all about how it performs in a live application.

Perfectly matched, simple to set-up, but every person who owns one of these systems, swears that the one we heard wasn't dialed in. What the heck does that mean? I thought this was the perfect system with ease of set-up. Your contradicting yourself.

I can understand where you would need to defend this since you sound like you have shelled out double in order to have the flexibility you need to do different venues.

For all of the skeptics, go to the Bose website and run the history on this product. It was sold originally as PAS/L1. PAS stands for Personal Amplification System. Bose's own marketing said that it was designed for one person, one instrument, in a live application. Need more sound for other band members? Buy a PAS for each one. Then, they got complaints that the drums and bass had no punch, add another bass unit. Soon, you'll have the perfect system...and Bose will be very rich.

The L1 was never intended for DJ or Karaoke. Bose themselves said that. The fact that some people think it would work or have been convinced by some supposed tech who is really a trained salesman is comical.

I'm off of my soapbox. Sorry, I can't recommend the L1. Never could, never will, and nothing you can tell me will change my mind. It is smoke and mirrors.

I'm glad you like yours though  :yes:

In my last post I noted that a friend of mine uses and prefers her Bose speakers over others she owns.
Flipper's last post reminded me, when he said he uses the Bose name to help sell himself, that my friend also notes prominently on her website that she uses Bose.

Some of you already saw this website if you saw the thread I started regarding a local karaoke singer, Peter?  

Look to the left of the company logo to see the reference to Bose
http://karaokehotline.com/

BTW,

I slam Bose, because they are great at marketing, but when you ask them a technical question they are arrogant and play this high and mighty we have a secret card. They haven't got any secrets. Their secret is they are selling a couple of hundred dollars worth of components for 10 times the value. They can't tell us the specs, because their sales will plummet.

If you know anything about electronics, open up your column and look inside. There are 5 watt speakers and a very flimsy small power amplifier. Oh, it's light weight, easy to move, yeah, there is a reason for that  :shock:

Oh, but it's a line array? Yeah that's what Bose wants you to believe. Go to Electro Voice's website an type in Line Array, and tell me what you see...

Randy (and others)

I just spoke with Fender.  They said the "tapeout" jack WOULD send the signal to a powered sub, w/built in crossover.  I also asked specifically about volume control, because the amp's knobs do not effect the output to the "tapeout".  They said a volume control, available at radio shack, could be inserted between the amp and the sub.

So, there you go!

The only time I have ever heard a Bose system not dialed in is at Gutiar Center which is really interesting as they are one of the major retailers. Many of the conventional PA guys there let it sit in the corner and collect dust. It was obviously not a priority for them so nobody even took the time to learn how to Gain Stage it or how to work the remote and learn it's settings. They had no idea what the 50 EQ presets were about and yet it was their job to know this. Why? It's because they did not take the time to read the manuals, mess with it a bit, and give it a go. Instead they probably said....Does not look like a PA, Does not come from one of the major pro sound manufacturers etc. It did not get attention because it was different.

The point I'm trying to make here is if I had not heard the system properly dialed in at a karaoke show in LA, I would have never gone to GC in the first place. When I heard the demo @ Guitar Center I was very disappointed, in fact the sound was downright crappy. I called the KJ in LA and he said he had a similar experience at his GC there. If I would have just read a review, just like the one you are trying to do here I would have probably not perused their system, and I would have missed out on a great value.

I have about $2200 invested in my system and mixer. I would never consider going back. I still have my other 2 systems and they are rentals.

I know I'm not going to try to change your mind on this.....I wouldn't even try as you have obviously have your mind made up. You must have a Bose skeleton somewhere in your closet as you are obviously anti Bose. If you didn't you would not have been so scalding with your views.

I'm defending myself not Bose. Your comments make it look like I'm some sort of fool for falling for the Bose Snake Oil Salesmen  And then I'm telling untruths to cover up my obvious over investment in a shoddy system  That is the reason for my defense. The part I can't figure out is why you are attacking me and a system you obviously know nothing about?

I made a well informed decision before purchasing, I had the opportunity to purchase the new model 2 which sells for $2500 and passed as I felt the price point was too high. I did purchase the Model 1 which was in my price range. I have never regretted that decision or it would not be in my system inventory. I bought it used and it is worth every penny I paid.

Let the Bose Bashing Commence

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Flipper,

I'm not attacking you personally. I didn't mean it that way. I said to Eric, and I'll say it to you, if your happy with the system then that's all that matters.

I am putting out strong criticism of Bose. Not that the system isn't good for some applications, but the fact that they make no effort to explain why the system is better, what the specs are, or any other information that would help someone make an informed decision. Then they are jerks about it. It's very discouraging, to find that their only defense is "listen to the system". If you want versatility, and that's what I was looking for, then you need to know more than just "listen to the system" in some static environment. Oh, sure they have the money back guarantee, but the already have your money. I don't work that way.

The other problem I have is the price. I think it is very overpriced for what you get.

Now, so you have a better understanding of where I'm coming from, one of the first L1's I heard was a solo act that was playing at a wine tasting. I remember walking in and hearing this nice clear sound. I took the time to check it out and talked to the guy. He told me all about the system and how much he liked it.

I went back and did some research and then contacted Bose. The tech group and I sent e-mails back and forth, and got nowhere. I went on the Bose L1 forum, and all of the people on there were talking directly with the head of the tech group, whom had been the one that I had been talking to. They were asking the same questions, as some had discovered the limitations of the system. He told them that they planned on actually putting out a spec sheet in about a month. I searched the archives, and at the time they went back about 2 years, and he had said the same thing no fewer than 10 times over that period.

To me, this was a major red flag. He was saying that Bose had nothing to hide, yet he was playing this, it's about to come out game.

Bose is a master marketing company. Some of the products are pretty good, but none of them are worth the price in my opinion. Then, the secrecy, cloaked in this image that they know something no one else knows, is over the top for me. They are doing pretty much known things in terms of the technology. Making a small portable line array (very loosely termed),is old news. Packaging in a better looking package and putting the Bose badge on it, then putting the huge marketing force that they are behind it, doesn't make it new, unique or even something special.

That's not to say that you don't get the results you want from your system. I think that's great. Just don't get too upset when someone who disagrees, post's a counter opinion, on a post where someone is looking for an inexpensive alternative sound system. Those of us who have experienced Bose in a technical sense, will bash them big time for their attitude. If they ever come out from behind that curtain, and show that they are just a little old man and not the "wizard" they purport to be, and let me and Dorothy and Toto know who they really are, then I will change my mind until then "Buyer Beware".

Thank you for clarification of your position

I did not get upset at you disagreeing at all. But your comments were quite strong and sometimes borderline personal. None of us are the final authority on any system regardless of the behavior of the folks that manufacture it. Our opinions are just that and do not reflect the majority of folks out there.

I guess I really don't care what makes Bose different....that is I could care less what the specs are as my ear is the final judge. It's ok that you seek this type of information and need it to finalize your decisions, in fact many folks do.

I have found the folks at Bose very accommodating as long as I'm asking the questions  in a way they can answer them. I get most of my technical help from the Musicians forum, specifically the DJ/KJ section. There are some career DJ's from huge markets that have found an edge with the system and are willing to share their experiences and expertise and are a wealth of information. I must admit my phone calls to sales support have not always solved my problems, and I generally get them answered by the forums by users that are doing what I'm doing.

Anyway we have invested too much time in this debate already, and actually the question is still what suggestions would you have for buying New Equipment. My response still stands. I will have other responses if this does not fall within his needs. There are plenty of good systems out there to purchase, and there are many opinions as well.

At this point I would like to return the thread to it's owner and move on!

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

It seems that every piece of equipment I have cost $400.  My players, $200 each x 3.  My mixer $400, my amp $400, my speakers, $400, my amp $400, my sub $400, road case $400, Microphones $400.  This doesn't even include all the cables, music, and all the little things that all add up quickly.

Remember yoiu get what you pay for.

Felix the KJ