Karaoke Forums

I've never had a doubt.  

But if you are bored singing the 100's of songs, that should leave you with SEVERAL THOUSAND to learn!  Which should keep you busy for a few years.

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I agree. There's at least 100,000 songs you can learn to sing- that'll keep you busy for a long time. Besides, SW doesn't "allow" Hip Hop songs at his show, so how many NEW songs could he possibly have?

Ridiculous remark that without newer music karaoke would die out- most singers sing older songs and the newbies would still come out to party and sing what is there, regardless of if it's new or not.

Besides, it wouldn't be hard for kjs to use vocal eliminators and play new music, although without lyrics, for the regulars who really want it. No problem if you already buy dj music- and you'd save money from not buying cdgs. Just an opinion.

They are going after the distributors.  That will take down every web site selling karaoke discs.  They will not want to take on a legal battle of that magnitude.   You as a karaoke web site owner are not going to have the resources to ask every manufacturer if every song you sell has been legally bought and paid for "rights."  So how do you eliminate the risk?  You just totally go out of business.  Then nobody will be selling new or old music.  Where will you get it then?

Even if you are innocent your legal fees will wipe you out.


How many songs do normal KJs know?  15-20?

As a karaoke purchaser I don't have to know if the songs a manu produced were legal to being with, that's between the maker of the song & the karaoke manu.  I have to worry about whether or not our club is paying their publishing fees in which case it wouldn't matter what is being played or not.
Again, new music is not the driving force of our customer base, as AGAIN you can see from the lists I post in the what was sung tonight thread.  But if karaoke dies, I can still work in the entertainment field doing other things as well.
How many songs do normal kj's know?  Depends on the kj, but I don't have the time to go count every song in the book that I can do or have done, but being I try at least 1 new song every night I work I would say it's probably upwards in the thousands range, songs I can do well are probably in the upper hundreds range (someday when I get really bored and have nothing to do I may go through my book and produce a list of songs I can do).  Not that it really matters, a karaoke host does not have to be a singer to produce a good show - it's a bonus, but not a neccessity.

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Read the suit again.

They are going after ACE KARAOKE, CAVS.

Last time i looked they have never produced a karaoke disc.

They are just a re seller.

That means every company that sells discs manufacturered by someone else could be a target.

It sounds like they are coming at it from the back door.  The major labels have too much money to fight.

ACE (could be a guy working from his basement) and CAVS are more like mom and pop operations in comparison.   Take down the distributors, what's left?

No but if you know anything about ACEKARAOKE, they sell their own HARD DRIVE machines under their own name - AceSonic, like CAVS - so more than likely this is probably what they are going after.  Not the actual retailer - although this particular one might be affected.

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If that's what they actually mean then yes.  But if they are talking about them just because they are selling music that never had proper authorization (even though they didn't produce it) then they will all be shaking in their boots.

I can't just decide to sell boot leg sports jerseys and expect to not be in trouble because i didn't actually "sew" the shirt.   I'm still selling an illegal product, PERIOD.  It could very well be what they are after.    Stop all the distributors and it fixes the problem pretty nicely.    It's technically "Boot leg" music used without permission.   And it won't matter who is actually making the contraband.  Selling it makes you illegal.

If all the music being distributed (sold) by them was made with permission then they have no case.

If they sell Music Maestro discs are they legal?   They had a permission issue.  With some songs.

Highly doubtful they are going after retailers in general.  Since they mention specific manus - Ace Karaoke (makers of Acesonic) & CAVS that both are hard drive systems, i'm more than willing to bet that's what it is about.  CAVS has been in numerous suits in a similar fashion.



If a retailer KNOWS they are selling bootleg stuff, then yes they could get busted, however in most cases the manus have a license, they produce a disc, then the publisher pulls said license & they do a recall - this has happened more than once throughout the years.  Once it's recalled & they continue to sell it, then they could have issues.  Now on the otherhand, if it's used disc, then it becomes a different story - provided it's an original to begin with.

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Lets say Sony has a song in mind that was without permission and that song is song "X."   And they knew that the disc from "Y" manufacturer had song "X" on it and it was shipped to 30 distributors.   And Sony in disguise, bought the disc with song "X" on it from all 30 distributors.    Now they have the physical and paper evidence.  It only takes one illegal song to be illegal.  So the distributor technically distributed a song without the proper permission and that is a violation of the copyright law.   And now they go to court and they also have other songs in mind and they subpoena all the sales records from the 30 distributors for the last 5 years.   With more physical evidence of other copyright violations.

Now given the choice between possible millions of dollars in settlements & maybe fines or shutting down your operation what would you pick?   Even if they would win, the legal fees would wipe out anyone but a major corporation.   But with so much evidence stacked against them they would probably be found guilty.    Ignorance is no excuse.   Now there are no more distributors left to buy discs from because they can not take the chance of it happening again.   And any distributor that is left or anyone that is thinking about becoming a distributor will feel the risk isn't worth it.

All for "a" song that a manufacturer made without proper permission.   And it doesn't matter if it was on a disc or a hard drive.    

You are assuming they are talking about format shifting to hard drives.   If the song was produced without permission in the first place the format shift is an after thought issue.   That only compounds the original illegal copyright violation.

They have been making major counterfit busts in China and Japan recently over DVD movies & CDs.

You must really get bored at your own shows then.... Especially with (surprisingly so) that same 25 year old who keeps singing "My Way" every night (and it's the ONLY song he ever sings for the past 5 years). All I know is, I've been going out to Karaoke shows for 12 or 13 years now (I've lost track), and I've been to shows where I still see the same faces there every week. You know what???... they're still singing the same songs that they were singing 10 years ago, and the KJs have added plenty of music over the years. I guess they haven't gotten as BORED AS YOU have, what with you singing ONLY a few hundred songs, as matched to hearing the same 60 songs sung over and over again every week.  Just out of curiosity, how many of those "hundreds of songs" do you sing when you go out??? After all, in a four hour show, you will only get to hear about 60 songs sung in the night (that's the average).

As for your question about the NON-Singers at your shows being bored with hearing the same songs over and over again, well, it's your job to try and get them to sing. Maybe their song choices will add that extra spice you seem to crave.

Regulars can't really be bored if they come back week after week to hear the same old songs.

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This guy just don't get it, ok well you stay in your little world, when you catch up, then i'll continue?!!?!??!??    :giveup:

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Right now everyone (every KJ in the world) is buying music to update their selection.  So the listeners and the singers have been getting new and old new music to sing to and listen to.   They are not hearing the same old songs.   Unless you never update your selection.   I'm averaging between $1500-2000 a year on updating.

What if there will be no more music to buy because of the legal issues?

If they win this case and it sets a precedent and from here on out distrubutors go out of business because they don't want to be liable anymore, then what?

My shows aren't boring, i was worried thinking about all the other suffering shows.

The same 60 songs a night, night after night, week after week gets boring.    I buy new songs for myself to sing on a regular basis.    I get bored so everyone else has to be getting bored too.     Soon your show will get stale without the infusion of different new songs to sing.    :ideagrin:  Then you can always turn to GH to liven up your night and open it up to the teeny boppers and adults that are still teeny boppers.

Says you maybe. Just because YOU get bored doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE does too. Step off of your high horse and take a deep breath. You are not the End-all/Be-all of Karaoke (that's how your posts are coming across to me).

[glow=blue]I update all the time. same venue for eight years...85 percent regulars...who have been coming for EIGHT years...singing the same songs. No one is bored...we have a great time. My new stuff rarely gets sung...even BY the younger crowd. I update...just in case. It's there if they want it...but it seems...they are happy with the same stuff ...and my only job is to keep them smiling...so far...so good.[/glow]

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You are missing the point.

You still have the option to buy more music and you have been all along.  What if you didn't have the option anymore?  

Stop buying music for a year.   See what happens.

SW, are you referring to updating as brand new music that's just been produced by new bands, or just updating any karaoke music.?

I'm pretty sure that most part-time kjs DO NOT update very frequently with newly released songs- too expensive, and for the most part unnecessary if they've got a good core library. You could make a list of 3000 of the most popular songs an never up date again..or anyone getting bored.

b4 you might ask, i update yearly, not monthly anymore for the past 2 years and noone has even inquired one time. The public takes what's already a huge selection there and never asks. The diehards buy and bring in their own discs.

I know a few kjs that do likewise and never miss a beat, or waste money anymore on trendy songs that will never be sung. If the industry ended tomorrow, karaoke would go on indefinately in my opinion based on the 250,000 plus songs that are already available. There's probably more than that total available and in other languages. I offer music in 6 languages, all genres of english language music, and have purchased discs totalling 75k songs in 10 years of business. Most of them never get sung. A waste of money although they were tax write-offs.

Karaoke will never die -people love to hear themselves too much...and like to show everyone new in the room that they can nail "friends in low places" perfectly. Ugh.

And of the 250,000 songs out there, how many of them could have been done without the proper permission?  The karaoke suppliers of which ACE is one of them could be forced to shut down because of the songs that were made and could still be available to sell.   This is a violation of the copyright law.    If they stand a chance of a major law suit because of it those 250,000 songs could become unavailable because nobody will want to take a chance on which ones are or could be the illegal ones.

Yeah i have singers that bring their own discs, but nobody will be able to buy discs without suppliers.    Not you, me or our singers.     That could leave us stuck with just what we have now and even some of those songs could have been done illegally.  Do you know which songs they are talking about?  I don't.   How many Music Maestro discs do you have.  They were in trouble for some of the songs they did.    

The format shifting is one issue we have.  But songs that were produced without ever having permission are another issue.

Any time you buy a disc be it with songs from 1950 or today it is considered a new song if you don't already have it.  Right?     So you and i and everyone else are constantly updating our selection with something.   You get NO requests for any songs you don't have?  

Are you willing to stop buying discs as of today to see how long it will take for the boredom to take hold?   Just to prove a point?    Don't buy any or play any discs that someone else brings in.   I'm willing to say that interest will start to wain over time.    Nobody will go night after night to hear the same 60 songs over and over for years on end.  

They just had a list on here of songs they would like to ban forever.  Why was that started?   Because we want to hear them everyday?   It's because nobody wants to hear them ever again.    Because they are sick and bored with them.   Can't be because they love them.    It's happening already.   Now never buy another song and see what happens.

Karaoke may never die completely but it could sure suffer a lot.   The only new interest would be from kids not born yet.   And they could sing the songs like Bicycle Built For Two, and MY Old Kentucky Home.   Why doesn't anyone sing the songs from the 30s and 40s?    One word BOREDOM and unpopularity and unfamiliarity.    The young kids never heard those songs and probably never will.  The same will happen to the songs from the eighties in a couple more years.

The attention span of kids today is getting smaller each year.   They are never happy with anything.  I remember telling my mom that there was nothing to do and i'm BORED.   Ever heard it today?     Why do people turn into drunks and dope addicts?    BOREDOM.     Don't say it can't or won't happen.    This subject is getting BORING...  :asleep:

Please ignore... No post was intended here.

SW,  I just don't have the time or patience to ponder the unlikely event that my part time job and its industry could be "going under" anytime soon.

All i know is i paid out the ying-yang for all my dj and karaoke music over the years, have receipts, and really could care less about what the future holds for karaoke- although we knows the law will eventually catch-up with technology.

Would i PAY if i HAD TO to stay in the business? A couple of grand wouldn't hurt versus the 45k i make at it! This karaoke is just for fun and supplemental income for me anyways- gets me out of the house, so my wife can clean!  LMAO