Karaoke Forums

Steve,

We have two different dimensions of "beliefs" here.

I don't disagree with the belief that KJ's should strive for the "best".  I dont believe, furthermore, that anyone on this forum believes there are members who are unconcerned with delivering the "best" to his/her singers and audience.  Why would we be participating if we didn't care?  Yet, we can never seem to find agreement on how to build our libraries!

Furthermore, one of my main points is that I don't believe the goal of having only the "best" in ones library is actually achievable, if for no other reason than the differing opinions as to what is the "best".

More importantly, I believe that even if it were theoretically possible to determine the best, that goal would never be achieved considering the constraints of time, product availability and finances that most KJ's face!

PS  I'm just starting out in this business.  I would hope over time I get to substantially experience all of the music in my catalog, from all periods and all genres.  My general observation from my years of involvement, though, indicates to me that NEW country music is the most popular genre among karaoke singers!  Not much call for reggae, calypso, folk music, (real) blues, jazz, latin (tempos), classic country, gay nineties, roaring twenties

Let me present it this way Eric.  Give an experienced entertainer with a good ear known to be successful providing entertainment in their respective venue a few renditions, they WILL tell you "the better" and similarly "not as" tastefully done backings !  Will a few manus come close ?  Sure !  Might there be a reason to have both renditions at times from both manus ?  Sure, (or at least I think),  Sidewinder, Lonnie, and others would know this answer,  I do not.. I'm not a KJ, and I do not know the venues, and singers in their venues.

BUT,  I'm not saying "a quality library" is something one can develop in a few weeks either  Some have been doing this for well over 10 years, and play a finite selection and number of songs for the most part night after night,  they KNOW their selections !

I better leave now, or Matt will come in and start chewing me out since I'm NOT a KJ

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

So, Steve, what's you point?  Must we take each track in our libraries and subject them to the scrutiny you just described?  Where would we find the time or the volunteers.

Hmm.  Why don't we let Randy, Paula and Simon come to such a consensus for us?

Oh, wait a minute,  Don't they usually disagree about the musical renditions they have, as listeners, shared?

Clearly some manus have considerably better renditions of certain songs, and in forums such as this it can be discussed.  How much "Scrutinization" does it really require to have the better renditions of songs you are familiar with ?  THanks to the advent of the Internet, and forums such as Karaoke Scene KJ's can help you picking out your better selections, and yes, you should be familiar with YOUR LIBRARY and selections IMHO !  Part of being an entertainer !

BUT again, in some noisy dives, one need NOT scrutinize to get by, of course in some venues the KJ can be what most would consider to be "a hack", and the patrons will love the person.  

Some must scrutinize Eric,  others need not scrutinize, personally I would, but to me music is a career, not a part time gig...

Just my take on this...

Stuff differs in accordance to VENUE one entertains at

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve, I have not suggested ignoring quality.  What I am harping on is the undeniable fact that  the KJ's on this forum aren't in universal agreement as to what is "best".  There are some quite divergent opinions in this area.  That's one of the inherent nuances in my original post.

And you said that the venue makes a difference.  I've already indicated my whole-hearted belief in that.  I am only as good as my last show and the people at the venue I performed decide that.  Not you, not me!

So "eye of the beholder".  I don't know the "truth" and neither do you!

I know

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I see you changed your above post, so I'll let KJ's talk about what is important to them as KJ's.  I have no business speaking on behalf of "KJ's.  But only as a person who's been in entertainment in MANY venues, and knows listening audiences.

I don't think it takes an expert in nanotechnology to discern what are the better renditions available eric

Need to run now.. bbl

Let me add this in:  An entertainer won't be 100%, that's just a nice goal to strive for  One must do the best they can, there is more significant contrast to many differing renditions than just splitting hairs,  better renditions ARE known by some if not many depending on genre.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You fail to say how you would determine the best song version between several.   Comparison.    To what?

Would you really take the word of other KJs?

If you have 10000 total songs

2000 may be one version songs, so they won't be listened to for the best version.   And only after someone sings it, they may say it sucked.   So you mark that one down.

Surely you have heard some songs that as soon as they start you know they suck.

You immediately look at the next version.

You don't have to do it all in one week.

You hear how many songs a night?    Take notes.  Ask people that sing the song what they think about the version.    I'll ask them if they want to try a different version next time.    The internet has a billion song sites that have just about every song ever made on them somewhere.  I'm always listening to music on the net.   You have a radio in you car.    Some versions i just know are good from hearing them over and over.   Sometimes you can tell within 30 seconds whether you want to keep listening.

I can't remember the song now, but just the other day i played 2 different song versions for my girlfriend to hear.  The one sounded like the musicians were just learning the song.  It was pretty plain to hear.    She has an excellent musical ear.

If i'm learning a new song she critques me.  She hears all the little nuances and suggests corrections and enunciations and timing and word chopping.   She prefers one version over another.   But she is picking the one closest to the radio version.


Most, not all singers that bring their own discs, buy the cheapest disc they can find.  That's the version they learn to sing to.   It always isn't the best version i've ever heard.  But i do have some singers that will listen to the versions for the best one.  I have many discriminating singers that aren't singing to crap versions.  They spend the money to get the songs on Sound Choice custom discs.   Not saying they are always the best version.    But they are serious about the way they sound and they ain't singing to crap.  Especially if it's mine.    That's why they paid for the song version they want.  

Now i pretty much know who's spending good money on good versions and who's buying the crap because it's all they can afford.  If they can't come to the show because their car is broke down for 3 weeks, crap buyers.

It's impossible for any KJ to ever have every song that any singer will ever want to sing.    That's not my goal because that one is impossible.   But it's not impossible to have the majority of your best versions listed.

Yep,  and I think anyone with a very good ear can easily discern "the better" renditions they've experienced in their given genre.  Not hard IMHO..  Takes me all of two seconds when I see four manus renditions, and I literally mean a few minutes tops to pick the best two out've four, and there are sites that have several renditions I can personally hear to make such a comparison online, assuming I can't in real..  It's not rocket science. IF SC has me thinking I'm listening to the actual original band, and Sunfly, and Legends versions sound like a 1980's 16 bit MIDI sequencer and there's a panflute in any rendition,  I know which versions I'd qualify as "better".  It really isn't rocket science, it IS time consuming agreed, is it worth the time ?  I suppose it depends, can anyone be 100% over time, nope.. Even among better renditions and manus versions (for the most part), knowing how to mix, and balance your sound as the entertainer is VERY important too of course ! (presentation)..  Not saying it's reasonable for a KJ to travel all over the globe in quest of the best rendition of "Can't find my way home",  sometimes one must settle I suppose.. Othertimes one shouldn't.  Entertainer needs to know his craft !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

A few years ago when most singers only sang a few songs but now most are constantly trying new ones. With my selection it does not occur very often.  Maybe one every 2 months someone may not like a version. In 3 seconds we have a secondary choice playing. That is another reason why we like multiple requests.

As a singer I can adapt to any system or version. Could you imagine a singer saying I can sing that song but only with one band, nobody else.

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Absolutely !  Do you realize the slim odds of a "Singer" giving a polished performance sitting in with a strange band for the first time without ever practicing  ?
Most singers WILL say that assuming they have never practiced with the other bands, since different bands play different renditions.

Depends how important familiarity is to a person.  I was a sit-in musician for years.. Loved the challenge, but you think I'd wish to enter a battle-of-the-bands sitting in on guitar with a band I've never heard before ?  Sheesh, now I'm going to have nightmares again, maybe even wet the bed.



I think this is a good example of how manufacturer can be very important to singers.  In certain genres I would opt for soundchoice in most cases although not 100% as opposed to Legend.  Somebody else MIGHT like Legend, yep..   Some 6 year old might think the cricket on the Legend rendition (snare drum) is cute.

While I lack the experience most of you have, lately I've been spending upwards of 4 hours daily trying to sing to the best of several renditions, so I have in fact been doing head to heads over in Singsnap and another site or two.. and have been doing so for a few months.  Regarding groups like Chicago, BS&T, classic ballad, and alot of R&B genre music it seems to me given my limited experience that SC followed by Chartbuster (in only select circumstances) would be the route I'd go buying backing, meaning SC custom discs most likely !  I'm stating this as a person SINGING to Karaoke backing..  Not a kid in a dive bar that doesn't care.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

But that still doesn't change the fact about the version i'm listing in my book.    I have the final say, unless they prove me wrong and i get the version they are talking about.

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Well, here we go again.

And what's wrong, generally speaking, with the pan flute?  It's most often subtle to the point of being "unheard".  Most important, I believe, is that it is helpful to those who don't really know the melody line.

In previous threads I've noticed references to it, and most were favorable. In fact, it was after such a previous posting that I listened to some discs I own which were said to have pan flutes on them in said postings.  It was only then that I actually heard the flute for the first time.

PS: Karyoker, I'm glad to have a well-experienced KJ bearing outt what I have observed over the years (before coming a Kj) that KJ's have minimal problems with the versions that they offer!

Steve had brought up the point that venues have an effect on what is demanded from a karaoke library.  I thought there was validity to that post.  

Specifically, Steve also offered this:


Let me remind those following this thread that my initial posting when I started this thread was prompted by the fact that I had just gone to a Karaoke Membership Bar/Club I belong, at which I hadn't been to in quite awhile.  

Upon looking at the club's song catalog, I was reminded of how little top-end manufacturers are represented therein.  Steve alluded to some venues being more demanding than others regarding karaoke,

Wouldn't a private bar/club comprised of, primarily, karaoke singers offer some definitive, evidentiary material as to what karaoke singers look for?   And again, half of the club's catalog is comprised of MM!  And some people do bring their own discs.  By far, most don't!

I will try with this posting, to end the postings in this thread from those who seem to feel that I am unconcerned with quality.  I am simple taking the position that just because someone prefers SC product line doesn't mean that any particular track from SC is the "best", or even good.

KJ's, when nothing is said to the contrary by the singer, have a singer's proxy to pick the "best" track to queue up.  However, the singer doesn't automatically and mystically become a devotee of the manufacturer selected by the KJ as a result of that proxy.  

I am also suggesting that, statistically, most karaoke singers are not devotees of karaoke and are unaware of who manufactures karaoke discs.  It is only those who stick with karaoke and begin to do it regularly who get to notice differences from one product to the next.  After that they may start to learn the names of the manufacturers.  It may still take awhile thereafter before someone becomes concerned with who the manufacturer is of a track they want to sing.  And, still, there's no reason to assume that they will then limit themselves to any one manufacturer or small group of manufacturers.  I don't as a singer

OK... I just went back to your 1st post and reread it.




So which is it? The disc manufacturer is not that important to the Singer, or it is? In the above quote, you took an instance from two different groups of people.... The average person coming to a show, and the serious singers coming to a show (who bring their own discs).  




And once again, you state a question which (IMO) contradicts the title of your topic thread. As I stated before, I'm not trying to point out which version is the best or worst. I agree that that is subjective to whoever is listening. From what I am seeing here, your topic thread morphed from "The DISC Manufacturer Is NOT THAT Important To Singers" to "The KJ decides/should decide what is the Best Version to sing from at his show."

BTW to Sidewinder --- I only do this part time (once a month if I'm lucky enough to be able to fit  a show into my schedule). I do not have the time or the patience to go on the internet and go to all those different sites that allow you to either download or listen to music, and then compare them to what I've got on CDG. I list all of the versions of a song that I have in my books (and I list them by Manufacturer codes). Then, based on MY EXPERIENCE with the different brands, I place an * next to a version which I FEEL (yes, that is being subjective... but then again, I never claimed not to be) is the better version. If I am not familiar with the song at all, I might not put a notation next to it (unless it's a really obvious choice between something like SC and SO). For certain types of songs, I'll put an * next to a specific brand if I know them to specialize in that style of music (such as PS over any other brand for the Broadway tunes that I have listed in my books). Now, just because I have an * next to a song, doesn't mean that the person singing will choose that particular version over the others. The "Average Singer" who doesn't know the difference between one brand and the next, probably won't even notice the * in my books. To the few who do, and then ask me why I marked a particular version, I'll tell them that "That is what I believe to be a better version.", and that is usually where the conversation ends. As for the more knowledgeable Singer, or the Karaoke Regular, well, they begin to recognize the Manufacturer codes for what they are (and they usually remember WHAT THEY LIKED (which might not necessarily be the best version I have, but a version that they have become comfortable singing from). Some even go out and buy their own copy of the disc to bring with them when they go to other shows that don't carry the same selection of songs that they are used to singing.

I am not contradicting myself and anyone can read whatever they like into what  someone else had said if they want to be argumentative; which can be exassparating!

My point, Cueball, is that one cannot deny that some people have very strong opinions about many things, including Karaoke manufacturers.  In my post you last referenced I was suggesting that as a KJ I shouldn't let myself have a "Knee=jerk" reaction to a few "squeeky wheels", who don't represent the universe of karaoke singers!

And, no, I don't believed I morphed anywhere from the original topic.

"THE BEST" brand/version/manufacturer of a song is that which gives you THE MOST ENJOYMENT singing it. THATS THE BEST. PERIOD!!.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Last night we had another singer bring in  a flash drive with wav files no vocal or graphics. They are very good singers. I'm not sure where they get them but they sound original.

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