Karaoke Forums

Thing about the Internet though Matt, is you never know.  Not all interrelate this way in a conventional manner, (and lord only knows what "conventional" means in certain chat venues).  I've been floored to find that some of the most obnoxious shady characters are actually practicing Atty's, some that exude wreckless hypocracy and lack of knowledge in music have been amazing guitarists in real, but none of this surprises me considering in real-life too, some of the most immature seemingly socially retarded imbecilic fools have been respected Mensans (yet to see them function in a social setting, one would think there's nothing between the ears). A few that I thought were close internet friends (for years) seemed to be people that it turns out don't exist by name, location, and description they had some of the most intuitive folk believing.  While it's true that in these types venues what matters is how one gets along with others and little more, I'd never wager on real life capability because in these settings what I often believe is wrong. Not all concern themselves with typed presentation, some do just shoot from the hip, and want to have fun and play.  I can't tell whats what on the Net anymore in many cases. Wish I was bright enough (or psychic) having such an ability.  All I learned early on is "Strange humor abounds", and without seeing expression behind the type, things get rough at times..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

SK, dude you're starting to get too philosophical.  :O  Things are going way over my head now.

Alright SW, to squash all the BD rumors going around about you, can you show a location of where you perform...whether it be your own website or club name & city?  If you can show these that can be proven, many of these insinuations will cease immediately, if not, you can pretty much prove you are the same arse & from here on out, no one will take you seriously!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I started becoming quite profound shortly after that incident.  I was only 8, afraid of water so my dad taught me how to dive in an empty pool.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

RE:  Illegal KJ's/DJ's..

 My thoughts on this are similar to what I've stated over and over again in similar past threads.  Similar to employee's that shouldn't be working "under the table" while collecting state and federal benefits what about the employers that hire them creating a market for such activity ?  Problem is, there IS a market for the SUBJECTIVE position of "sufficient entertainer for an affordable price" and if venues hiring them don't care about their "credentials" you don't have say as to who becomes your competition. Illegal exists in so many facets of life (even government) I haven't a clue what you can do, and do you really believe the courts will see such cases ?  Do you believe our judicial system has time and space for de minimus cases ?  Understand,  I am not saying difficulty solving a problem vindicates the wrong actions.



According to your logic (regarding what you stated about bands not being able to work due to the DJ/KJ) shouldn't YOUR SKILL and ability be what makes you marketable ?  You see, within the entertainment market what a person deems to be "sufficient" affordable entertainment DOES make it a competitive market for those of us wanting MORE money for services we provide.  Many venues would hire excellent bands if they were willing to work "for beernuts".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I use Super CDG's, 1200+ songs on one disc. Sure I had to upgrade my player for $150.00 but 1200+ songs for $100 is a lot cheaper than $1 a song, and easier on the back.

The problem with super cdgs that sell for $0.10 a song or less are probably not fully legit anyway. In fact the mimimum royalties that should be paid to the songwriter for a cover version of a song is 8.5 cents for a under 5 minute song and 1.5 cents for each extra minute. That means your super CDG should have been paying about $100 to the songwriters for the mechanical rights alone. Since that would leave no profit for everyone else involved it is almost 100% sure to be an illegal copy.

The royalty system the way it is set up in the USA, there is no way someone can sell a song for that much on the musical royalties alone (totaling 8.5 cents per song), much less than the other royalties such as the lyrics and syncornization royalties (often several times the musical royalties in cost). For a US product, pretty much whenever something is going for much less than a $0.50 a song it is probably on very shakey ground legaly as far as royalties are concerned. Even at that price most are probably of questionable legality.  Sure we can always find some cds that are being sold at a loss or clearance in the discount bins or used but 10 cents a song or less should set off alarm bells to anyone who has purchased much karaoke music.  

Are all of such companies "caught" and forced to pay the appropriate fees, no but it is part of the KJ's responsiblity to not buy something that is obviously illegal once you know about how the market works.

Scratch that Super CD and lose 500 songs in a instant.

and the QUALITY of the songs from the original SuperCDG manus... I much prefer to get my sets from SC, CB, PHM, THM, or whatever...

Mrdelicious brought up something earlier too, and while many dislike seeing what he stated, morally are ALL complaining about "Illegal KJ's" innocent of infracting upon laws that affect, or can affect somebody else adversely ?  Where does one establish the line of "How Illegal" shall not be acceptable  and enforceable, and by who's standards ?

How many that complain on this site haven't exchanged files on sites such as IRC, or elsewhere, DL'd songs without paying proper licenses EVER and NEVER used ANY illegal means in a commercial setting EVER ?  No need to answer,  just ponder it !

Not advocating illegal as being good, or condoning it, but I am trying to address how oftentimes in typed message there's considerable hypocrisy.  Meaning, often things appear as minor, until they affect us and only at such a time does the fault-finding begin.

Systems of free enterprise especially in entertainment have always gotten ugly in some areas.  BUT,  assuming it became "legal" now to host a venue using CD-G's that are copied, would that enable some of you today to get more work ?  Much of this complaining seems like water over the dam stuff, meaning assuming it could be changed IMHO, being "the best" KJ out there willing to work very affordably won't be the sole factor that enables those that should be working to work by time legislature makes changes, media form changes etc... There are issues of "fad" and trend ending, squeezes on the entertainment hiring by bars in a pinch in many suburban-rural areas too.  You can't determine the criteria of your competition assuming it's marketable to those hiring that don't care about the total legality issue. Instead of fighting what is, isn't it best to try to market what you have or evolve rather than complain ?  Or sometimes just settle for the fact that what was, is no longer. Because that's what many live entertainers in music did, when things changed and we got the ax due to stuff changing.  This isn't some secure civil service type work that unions keep you in and protect you securing your bene's after so many years,  entertainment is flighty and not guaranteed as work to any of us indefinitely. Executives and workers in the corporate world are let go before retirement and pension can be frozen and those out've school less qualified and different are hired for half the wages all the time.  Hard working people who put in A LOT of time for a company that puts them on the street with no security.  It's the bar owners money, and HIS perrogative as to whom it is he wishes to hire.  This goes beyond just undercutters assuming venues are hiring them making it tougher for some of you to find work.

ADDED IN:



Why aren't you concerned about "busting bars that hire them" too ?  Realistically, between tough liquor laws, now the indoor clean-air act, I'm sure MANY bar owners aren't overly reticent to not take the time to worry about their KJ's totally legal library, many bar owners are likely sick of heavy regulation telling them what they can't and must do to continue operating.  I'd think venue owners are getting tired of what they may consider excess government breathing down their back hurting their customer base, and profit margins, and that's a problem too..  You think they are concerned about their KJ's totally legit library when they have to take hits due to other bigger laws that cost them revenue ?

Just some thoughts,  but we got into this with the "Build a wall on the Mexican/US border" awhile back too, problem is, INSIDE the US there is incentive and employers that want "cheap" labor making it conducive to "coming to the states".  Bar owners often do this as well, they aren't all looking to pay top dollar for what some of you feel is worth them doing-so. They hire their dishwasher and give him 7 bucks an hour and 6 more hours work a week, as well as a few "Mr T Sing Along" disks (something like that) and a free cheeseburger . There are many workers with families losing jobs and health bene's who'd LOVE to have some say over who's taking their job. Free enterprise systems don't enable those let go quite so much control in reality

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I have mentioned publicly (here only) that i am using a computer with my legal discs ripped to it.  Which is technically illegal.  This site is monitored by who knows for sure, possibly for illegal activity?  And there are a few of my jobs, i don't know for sure which ones, that have not been visited by ASCAP/BMI.  So for me to openly divulge any incriminating statements and proof of where the violations are, are not or could be occurring, in my humble opinion, seems very foolish.   Especially if you are using a computer karaoke show.  I suggest that nobody give out their information publicly if there is a question about the legality of your show or the bar where you perform.   Hey call the cops and tell them someone stole your dope stash.   Same mentality.  You could be putting your bar owner and your karaoke business in jeopardy of legal action.  

I am not personally friends with, nor do i personally know you (Mr. TTowntenor) or anyone else on this site or any other forum, that i would feel comfortable with saying, here i am come get me.  I am not now or ever, (unless it becomes totally legal) advertising the fact that i'm a 100% DIGITAL COMPUTER BASED KJ, as i have seen many web site ads and business cards already.    That to me is really asking for trouble.     I am not broadcasting it at my shows.  It's not going to be in or on any advertisement in my web site, books, calender, or in the bars.

This forum has not been kind to me for the short time i have been here.  I have been called a Karaoke Nazi, sideWHINER, jerk and other things like a warning for some post that contains none of the violations the email eluded to, not limited to and including a criminal complaint for the over use of emoticons (smiley faces).  LMAO  Punishable by death in some countries, isn't it?   I'm an animated guy with a colorful personality.   Lighten up.   Wouldn't hurt anyone here to use something to break up the monotony once in a while.

Is this forum a public forum dedicated to exchanging ideas and having open discussions or is it a "friends only" click?   Do i have to know someone to be accepted with open arms?   Is there a secret hand shake or a special ring?   It appears that many of you know each other from here and in a personal setting.   I'm sorry if i don't conform to everyone's idea of a perfect forum participant.  For whatever reason.  Maybe confining my answers to yes or no is the best option?   Without commentary, opinions or possible alternatives.   Your welcome wagon has a flat tire.   Does every new participant have to run the gauntlet?    I have been a guest reading from the sidelines for many months and i finally decided to join and i get crucified.   So i'm sorry, i will not be offering up a detailed map for the karaoke police to follow.    Lead them to your jobs, if you're crazy enough.

People on here (YOUR MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING) have openly said they want to "BUST" everyone (Fellow KJs) that even owns a house computer.  (NICE FRIENDS)   So if you stupidly (IMO) want to wave your arms in the air,  shouting at the top of your lungs all your illegal acticvities, go ahead but i'll sit this one out.  

No hard feelings.  Sometimes you need to know when to keep your mouth shut.   Blabbing about going to computer isn't one of them at this moment in time.

I find it very, very interesting that with the few posts I have done recently related to anything that you (sidewinder) comment on, your responses have been very, very confrontational, condescending, and accusatory, causing not only me to feel defensive, but for others to feel defensive in my behalf.

First off, I did not call anyone a Karaoke Nazi - least of all you. I don't know you though you certainly have done a great job of creating your personality profile for all to see with your responses to others' posts.

I am a live-and-let live person and expect the same in return ... but there are some, yourself included, who don't seem to get that concept at all. You needn't keep insisting to me over and over and over again about your opinions on things.

Forums are generally a concensus gatherer, not a 'friendship circle.' Granted, I have done everything I can to support others on this forum. If you come at people with your guns drawn, an air of defensiveness is created. Then what results often is a volley of posts that are created with pure anger and frustration...

You'll never be confused as to whether I call someone a name - other than my original typo, which I never edited because I thought it suited the situation (and how important was it? I don't even remember when it happened) ... I think it is counteproductive to do that.

And as you advise us in your post, lighten up yourself. Maybe you would find that fewer of the shoes fit ...

k

 
 
@SW  
 
Many of the regular posters here know each other. Many have been to each others show and many have exchange email. And those with Web site have links to it.I use my real name here, and many knows my full name. If you feel uncomfortable about reveling your identity then you have the right to hide behind your nick. That, however put you in a position of disadvantage, cos few here will take you seriously.

If you think that you have been treated unfairly here, then this is what I can tell you: go reread all your old posts. This is a karaoke community; made up of KJ, singers and music lovers. Try and fit into it. It is sad to note that in such a short time you that you are here, a Mod had given you a warning. There must be a very good reason for such a warning to be issued.

Need I say more?

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I rest my case!  You ARE the BigDog that was such an A hole, and if you aren't you completely fit the descritpion down to the not revealing where you are.  See even the idiot BD was contemplating going computerized.  You just in this post lost ALL credibility (if any that people took you for) at all!

Good day sir!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

You and all here (who could be ASCAP/BMI or Sound Choice or the FEDS) are free to your opinions about anyone and everyone.  

I am not about to put myself or my bar owners in legal jeapardy.  I don't know why any "responsible KJ" would be bragging about being illegal on their web sites, all around the world.   Everyone has access to them including Sound Choice, ASCAP/BMI and the FEDS.  

Now how can any KJ think it's going to benefit them by advertising and publicly announcing their illegal activity and where to find them doing it?    Would the bar owner like that info broadcasted?  Better ask them first.

Answer that logically and i'll give you my address and phone number.

Everything is at risk by those actions.   Read the title of this thread.   I'm a little smarter than that.  I'm not flag waving my business to anyone (everyone) that could cost me my livelihood and ruin many bar owners at the same time.  Why, so i can brag about my music being on a computer?  Do you think that will get you more jobs??  No bar owner gives a rats A$$ about your music computer.    To me it's just plain stupid.   NOBODY CARES.

When i get hired no bar owner ever asks how i play my music.   They wouldn't know if it was a disc, a computer or stick beating on a tin can.

Call the Feds, tell them you cheated on your taxes for the last 30 years, and want to be in jail for tax evasion.    Call the State Police and tell them where you'll be speeding on the way to work.   Call Sound Choice and tell them about you illegal computer show on friday.   Call the LCB and tell them about the underage drinkers and the poker machines and the after hour parties, and the bartender drinking behind the bar, and the football pools and the hookers and the bookies.    Kill everything about the business.   Take'm all down with you.

WHY WOULD YOU BROADCAST IT???   Got a death wish?   I don't.  I worked to hard to get to this point to be stupid about it now.    And that ends this discussion.

a-huhm... that's what I thought!

Have a nice life!

I second the motion, SW go back and read all of your posts, if it looks like a jacka$$, smells like a jacka$$, and reads like a jacka$$, well, you figure it out. For the the record I've have no idea who Big Dog was or is, your posting style speaks for itself.

If I get a warning for this so be it, couldn't contain myself anymore. Oh, and by the way, no one is falling for your poor little me routine, grow a pair, you made your bed now lie in it!

No you won't get one from me  LMAO

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I mentioned that I ran sound with the 100s of dollars I have in karaoke equipment,etc. I didn't say in a recording studio. This was for festivals in Nashville with Indie Labels.(I'm sure ya'll have heard of those events.)  Yes, I ran bands on my equipment, as I mentioned. The sound was turned down to a level where the singers COULD here themselves and so cound everybody else. A good friend of mine found that he had songs out on karaoke that he didn't get paid for. Low and behold, he finally got  his $. Another friend of mine wears Elvis Presley's glasses. I'm sure the rest of you have all kinds of stories to tell, also. I learned quite alot there in Nashville and around  other places.

I've seen KJ's with what I call "Dummy Books" with the old disk letters just to cover their back side. The books are very thin and I noticed that right away. I know they have more songs in all those pre- loaded hard drives then in that book. Some of the karaoke places aren't even in business any more. To see old disk numbers in a book just to cover themselves is just ignorant.

As far as being told I'm scared of computers, I don't think so. I'm typing on one.

I went to a show the other night and one of the kj's tv's was down and I saw all the programs he had.  The words to a song weren't there but the programs were.  

Ironically, as a new member, it was in a thread on the same subject as this one that first involved me in an extending postings.  AND that thread was started by BD.  Most everyone of you who are still around from that time chastised BD about being concerned with amateurish competition and pooh poohed the significance of loaded hard drives!  I supported BD's concerns and folks began to attack me along with BD.  
 
   Some samples of the flawed thinking that appeared on this forum at the time of BD's post:
      -  Those loaded hard drives have many many duplicated tracks
      -  The tracks on those drives are "crap" versions
      -  The KJ's buying them skimp not only on their music library but on their equipment, as well
      -   Attendees at karaoke shows are not concerned with how many tracks are in the library
      -  Those amateurs with those drives will have little impact against the PROFEESIONALLY run shows

    I tried to explain that:
      -  If you have have a hard drive with 70,000 tracks, even if there are only 30,000, 20,000 or 15,000 distinct tracks when all is said and done, so what?  Who among us has such an extensive legal library?
      -  In my area long-standing shows were the ones, primarily, who began using loaded hard drives, shows with existing equipment, discs, clientele and followings!
      -  The tracks on those drives are NOT crap versions
      -  The computerized set up is more easily multi-rigged, having a greater impact on competition than newbies undercutting prices
      -  Some of those systems were CAVS, which I still not clear as to the legality of
      -  CAVS was/is available on the internet rather than through some back-alley, blackmarket channel
      -  Newbies/amateurs could get started and successfully undercut prices more easily than ever before because of the size of their hard drive library.  Anybody, incuding stupid club owners, can spot that someone with just a couple of thousand (or less) library is a Newbie!  When the Newbie shows up and brags about their computerized (most up-to-date modern rig) and a library of 10,000 (or more songs) it has an impact.

So, is there anyone on this forum now who doesn't understand what I posted back then in support of BD?