Karaoke Forums

And to spell it out, the Dell Inspiron has everything you need:

   * Svideo out that works in "extended desktop" for lyrics screen
   * Decent sound chip and driver
   * DVD-RW drive can read/write CDGs

"I pieced together a pretty kick butt system with a nice video card and 2gb of ram for around $550.00."  

What about the monitor and all the other stuff to make it work.  Remember you still only have one...



Who wants to carry in all the componants of a desk top. And set it up.  May as well just keep using discs and players.

There is no easy way to transport a desk top.  Are you going to use a battery back up too.  That's 20 more pounds.

I have had power failures with the laptop already.  It just stayed running like nothing ever happened.  Turned off the amplifier until the power came back on.  The laptop never missed a beat.  The rotation was still there ready to go.

Can't do that with a desktop and no battery back up.

A Laptop has a built in back up EVERYTHING.  including a power supply (the battery)

2 fully loaded laptops--- 2 gig duel core processor, 2 gigs of ram, excellent video and sound cards, best screen.  7 pounds  $25-2600  

Factory direct to my specs.  Never need to upgrade.

Knowing i can complete every job....because i have a spare EVERYTHING....priceless

A laptop may not be the cheapest way to go, but how much is your convenience and peace of mind worth?

yeah, and when you have a cracked lcd screen or a bad motherboard, you have to replace the ENTIRE thing if using laptops. Desktop units provide a freedom that laptop users can't come close to... they're EASY to swap parts out, upgrade, etc.

I'm GLAD you feel your choice was better, and can find all sorts of reasons to explain it to us.

I have just as many if not more for desktops. I've also been doing this for a number of years, and can certainly attest to the stability of that decision. Yes I DO have to bring in another box of stuff strictly for the computer. SO WHAT??!!?? It doesn't come CLOSE to having the old player and a crate and a half of my 1500 discs in binders. LET ALONE those members on here that keep their pristine discs in the original jewel cases.

Look, make your case and stick with it, but don't make all sorts of out of control comparisons.

Since you don't feel comfortable with the concept of troubleshooting, fine, stick with your decision. To those of us that CAN do it and DO do it in a live situation, we can do it for a lot less than the investment you've put into your TWO laptops.

OK...You're in the middle of a show and you find out you need to replace your mother board.  Will that take 10 minutes???

More like 10 days.  You will not (NOR WILL ANY OTHER KJ) make any repairs inside the case at a show.  EVER

I can swap a laptop in 10 minutes, evey 10 minutes.

You can't remove the case screws in 10 minutes.

You have the same screen issues.

It's a computer not a basketball.

Anyone thinking about light weight and convenience and having every spare part (backup) at your finger tips, should be thinking one thing and only one thing.

2 laptops.

A 10 minute swap looks way more professional than trying to unscrew the case & trouble shoot a computer in the middle of a packed bar.

10 minutes of silence or 3 jukebox songs later and my show continues.

You may as well pack up and go home.  Take the computer in the house and operate and hope it's good to go in time for the next show.

Thinking about going to a computer? Ask your self a few more questions..

Are you capable of making the needed repairs on the job, under pressure?  Will you have every spare part you will need (meaning everything on your desk right now) ?  Will you have all the tools?  Most KJs are not computer geeks.  I'm not.  So for my money, sanity, convenience, time saving, peace of mind, and professionalism, i picked 2 laptops.

If I crash, I'm back up in less than a minute.  Discs & players are awesome backups.  Motherboard can be replaced in less than an hour.
If I had the spare parts AT my show, then yes I could make the repair AT the show, but there is no ponit, i'd take the computer home & do it right & have it back the next night.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Most normal KJs don't take or have available their discs and players.  That's why they went to computer.  That's at least 100-150 or more pounds of extra unneeded stuff. If you don't drag it in, then it sits in your vehicle waiting for someone to steal it.  Then you will be very screwed.

A back up laptop is way more convenient and takes up a lot less room and weight.

Going computer in the first place is the entire idea. Simplicity

A desk top (even a rack mount) is not simple. Or practical or convenient. No spare parts.

Someone trying to decide which way to go, should be looking at one thing.

What do i need to be able to fully complete my entire show and get paid my full money?  That won't make me look stupid. That is easy to set up and replace quickly, if needed.

The answer is 2 laptops.  Without question.

If you currently use 2 players, (WHY??) then you want and need 2 computers.

It's that simple.  It's not cheap, but once you do it, it's over and done with.  You will be so happy you decided to do it that way.

You will never think of using a disc player again. And you will wonder why you ever did.

Well I don't consider myself a normal kj, I try to be on the ball so even if my computer DID go out for the night, I wouldn't have to spend 10 wasted minuted trying to hook up my back up, I get the disc & put it in the player & am up & running in less than 1!  I didn't go computer for lightness, I went to computer for convenience only.  Yes all my discs & players are still at every show.  The fact that I am there 7 nights is no issue, even if I wasn't just for legality purposes alone, I would still have them.



Um spare parts are more READILY available for desktops than laptops, don't know where you shop.



I would think anyone that can do a show.  



No that's only ONE answer, there are many to the question of how to provide a show if a computer goes down.



WHY do I use two players?  Simple, to have quicker cue up times between songs, have one already cued while the current song is playing.  But even if a player went down, i'd still have the other to rely on, may not be as fast as having two going, but wouldn''t lose a show or customers because of it.  
So what you are stating is you have a backup for if say your mixer goes down - may as well have two (i've had mixers go bad, guess what, was able to limp trhough a show with my players mic input with the player going through the PA for a couple hours - people understood).  You have backup effects processors in case one of them go tits up?



Yep may as well have a backup of everything at your show, so basically two complete systems - you know, just in case!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The direction of this thread, is heading toward trying to decide if a person should go with a laptop, rack mount or desk top computer.

Nobody normal would want to haul around 2 rack mount or 2 desk top computers and monitors and keyboards and mice. And have all of the spare parts needed to keep them operating flawlessly night after night.

It's totally impractical to do so.  From a money stand point and a convenience stand point.  Carrying your entire disc library and players just because, is not convenient or practical or smart.  You risk damaging them or having them stolen, needlessly.

Believe me i tried and tried to talk myself into a rack mount computer. (the spare part issue of being able to swap out broken parts was the biggest plus)  After that issue, no matter how i sliced all the facts, i couldn't justify it or convince myself that it was worth it. Buying 2 monitors and all the other stuff is costly, bulky to have to try & haul around so they don't get damaged.  

You are in a totally different position than 99.9% of all the KJs reading this thread. They need to understand that point.

Most KJs don't have the room or the job to keep their stuff set up and under lock and key. Including all their discs, players, computers and everything else.  So talk to them about what's practical and portable and reasonable.


How many KJs using computers  take their discs and players to a job as back up?  Show us some hands.

Having run both for several years and started with a rack comp because at one time laptops did not have dual video, enough ram and the sound sucked. Now the advantages of rack mounts are going by the wayside.

Right now I have a 2 unit rack mount and laptop for backup. Next investment will replacing the rack mount with a slim tower dont like Dell but it seems Acer super slim towers are hardly available.

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

I don't care what others do.  Again, I said 1 computer system is technically illegal enough, i'm not going to copy my entire library a second time & have it at the show as well.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

:wave:  :wave:  :wave:
Because we worried about LEGALITIES, and at least this way, we can prove we own the discs. My DREAM was to never bring them in, but that proved to be non-workable...

I ran computerized for four years with a desktop. Not had ONE problem at a show while it was running. I DID when I set up the unit one time, and had to reseat a card. Took ten seconds plus the time for a power off and boot up. Since I was there early, this wasn't a problem.

Like lonnie, I always had a backup player... that way I could play customer discs, but JUST IN CASE, I had a player if I had to forego the computer.

you keep going on and on about rackmounts, but don't really address desktops or shuttles.

I for one think that an all in one system such as a laptop is insane. I'm not saying it's impossible... but for me, I can'g reach in there and upgrade as nicely as I could a desktop or tower unit.

I've brought spare power cords and cables... and had my library on another external unit in case of a hard drive failure. never had to use it though.

OK let's examine all the possiblities.  This is going to be long and it may take a few posts to get it all in, so be patient with it.


There are 4 possible configurations for computers.

A Desk Top

Which consists of a four major parts.

1. Monitor,
2. case,
3. keyboard, mouse, & connection wires
4. Battery back up  unit.

A Rack mount/desk top ( this would be a rack mount case with a desk top style monitor.)

Four major parts.

1. Monitor
2. Rack Case
3. Keyboard, mouse, & connecting wires
4. Battery back up

A rack mount/laptop ( this would have the monitor and keyboard/mouse mounted in the rack on a pull out drawer.)

Two major parts.

1. Rack mounted case and monitor, mouse/keyboard
2. battery back up

Laptop

1 major part. Everything is included in it.


Notice at this point none of the 4 computers has any spare parts listed.

Anyone that doesn't use a battery back up for their computer is playing with fire. It's included because all the manufactures and computer experts agree upon this item.

This excercise will include a practical part and a question part. Designed to help everyone decide on the type of computer they should use for doing a karaoke show.  

It will be unbiased.

Just the facts.

First question:

From the above descriptions which one looks like the one you would choose?

2. Which one do you think costs the most?

3. Which one looks like the least amount of hassle to carry in and set up?

Get a peice of paper to keep your answers on. There will be more questions.

Well the only thing I would need a second of is a tower, I wouldn't need a secondary anything else.  So in my show computer, I saved over buying a laptop that was close to the specs I wanted.  So if I were to have built two towers, I still would have saved over buying two laptops with the specs close to what I wanted.  
Wouldn't need to double up the monitor, keyboard, mouse - have never used a battery backup, guess i've played with fire for nearly 15 years (in general only a year at the show) as have most of the companies i've worked for.  

Answer to your question #2 & #3 combined, the laptop I WANTED & was close to the specs I wanted would have ran approx $2300 last year when I built my tower to the exact specs I wanted at over half the cost.  Even with the 19" LCD monitor, wireless keyboard & wireless mouse (the tower came with all the necessary cables) which the receivers are mounted to the tower, so no connections there.  Have to plug in power cord & video monitor.  Then (as I would a laptop) would have to connect to the tv output & pro sound card (your headphone jack).  So even with all of these little extras, I still saved $$ over the laptop I wanted.  And with the cost of everything going down, I would probably still save if I were to build a new tower today, although laptops are becoming more powerful.

It don't matter though, if they made a laptop with exactly what I wanted especially in the pro audio dept (which they don't without having to purchase external units), I would probably go laptop (but even if that happened I would still ALWAYS have my discs & players at every show).  I wanted a good solid system that I could personally upgrade if need be myself & do any repairs on myself.  Most laptops are not user serviceable & you must send it out to get fixed.
There are pros & cons to either system, picking what you personally want & what fits your needs is what it comes down to.  There is no right or wrong, just like software choice for show hosting.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Now for this part of the computer evaluation, you need to actually physically do it.  Just pretending won't give you an accurate feel for it.   More questions will follow this part.

First exercise:  

Take apart your desktop computer, monitor, case, keyboard, mouse and wires and battery backup. All 4 major parts.

Now carry them down to your karaoke vehicle and put them all in there. This should have taken 4 trips.

Drive around the block pretending you are going to your karaoke job.  Unload your vehicle and carry all four components to your livingroom and set it up. This again should take 4 trips.

Now, work on the computer for the next four hours straight.

Now tear the computer all apart, carry all 4 major components down to the vehicle and load it up.  Again taking 4 trips.  Now drive around the block, pretending you are going home from your job.

Now carry all four major components back in the house and put them with the rest of your karaoke equipment.  This takes 4 trips.

Day #2:
Carry the 4 computer components back out to your karaoke vehicle, load it up and drive around the block to your next karaoke job.  4 trips . Unload the 4 major components and set the computer up in your gameroom.  4 more trips.   Now work on the computer for 4 hours straight.  At the end of the four hours, tear down the computer, carry it all back out to your car, drive around the block and unload your computer and put it with the rest of your karaoke equipment.  That's 8 more trips. 4in and 4 out.

Day #3:
Carry the 4 computer components back out to your vehicle, load it up and drive around the block to your next karoke job.  4 trips.  Park at the neighbor's house and carry your 4 computer components in and set it up in his gameroom.  4 trips.   Now work on the computer for 4 hours straight.  Now pack it all up, carry it out to your vehicle, and drive around the block.  Now carry the computer back in and put it with your karaoke equipment.  8 more trips.  4 in and 4 out.

You have just simulated 3 karaoke jobs using a desktop computer.

In all fairness this excercise did not include taking any spare parts or an extra desk top.  Which would have included the 4 major parts and would have added 4 more trips to each loading and unloading.

If you really had the spare computer you would have carried it into each job and kept it close by, so you could keep am eye on it so nobody steals it.

Day #4:
If you do not have  a laptop computer borrow one.

Carry the laptop to your karaoke vehicle, drive around the block. 1 trip.  Bring the computer in and set it up in your livingroom. 1 trip.  Work on it for four hours straight.
Tear it down and load it back in your vehicle, drive around the block and unload the laptop and put it with the rest of your karaoke equipment.  2 more trips.  

Day #5:
Take your laptop back out to your vehicle and drive around the block to your next karaoke job.  1 trip.   Take the laptop out, set it up in your gameroom.  1 trip.   Work on it for four straight hours, pack it up, put it back in your karaoke vehicle.  Drive around the block to your house and unload your laptop and put it with your karaoke equipment.  2 trips, 1 in and 1 out.  

Day #6:
Take your laptop out to your vehicle and drive around the block.   1 trip.  Park in front of the neighbors house and carry your laptop into his gameroom bar. 1 trip.  Set it up and work for four straight hours on your laptop.  Now tear it down, load it back in your vehicle, drive around the block to your house.  2 trips, 1 in and 1 out.

You have just simulated 3 karaoke jobs using a laptop.


In all fairness, this did not include a spare laptop.  If it did you would have added 2 more trips each way.  However, 2 laptops are light enough to carry in one trip.  



One more thing.   If you are using a rack mount/desktop with a full size monitor, the desk top scenario would closely match you.  

If you are using the rack mount/laptop computer setup, you would be closer to the laptop scenario.

All straight forward facts.  No bias toward either scenario.


Now answer this question:

Which of the two scenarios would you rather do night after night? The desk top scenario or the laptop scenario?


More to come.

Why do you think you would not need a back up monitor?  Do they last forever???

Your karaoke setup is still not considered normal for 99.9% of the working KJs.  Yours is an exception.  Your scenario comparisons are not typical.

The majority of the KJs are mobile, meaning they setup and tear down [highlight=red]completely[/highlight], every night.


Anyone using a computer of any type is considered illegal by the current standards.  Unfair bias.

WOW you are a really inefficient roadie?  Have you ever heard of a hand truck.  I load it up once, bring it in ONE trip plus being able to bring in several other things like books, maybe the amp or effect rack.  Get a rock n cart that doubles as a floor cart & you can get almost everything in one trip.  So your point is still not valid in my eyes, just made me see that inefficiency in moving equipment can play a big factor.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Nope they don't last forever, but why would I need one at the show.  My discs & players are set up to go, so if I had to I would grab the discs & play the next song in less than a minutes time & still continue without even the audience knowing that something happened.
Even if I were mobile, I would still have my players & discs set up & ready to go for back up purpose & to show that I actually own the discs for lagality purpose.  Moving things is not a big headache like it seems to cause others.  When I was mobile I still brought in the same stuff I am using now - probably quite a bit more than anyone here as I have a separate amp rack (weight aprox 250#), separate effect racks, separate mixer rack, separate player rack, disc racks, speakers, subs, monitors, books, cords (most of the coards are already setup & labled in the racks & just need to be connected).  This is just my PA & players, the "4 piece" computer is a miniscule item compared to what I would normally bring for a show.

What's unfair bias, that it is technically according to todays laws, illegal to transfer your discs to computer?  I agree it doesn't seem fair, but it's true, & I admit that i'm breaking the law.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

That was my point, exactly.  That's just the computer.  Not any kind of a computer back up and no sound equipment hauled in yet.  A whole lot of work that could be eliminated with a laptop.  

Anyone dragging a full size computer monitor to a karaoke job. Will sooner or later slam on the brakes or drop or somehow cause the monitor to quit working.  And you never know when that exact moment will be.  Without a screen to run the mouse on, you are dead in the water.  Pack up and go home.  Possibly without any money. Depending on what time it crapped out.

Anyone live in a foreign country?  Do they have TV repair places?  Because a monitor is the exact same thing without a tuner.  Or are they all boarded up, no business, because they never break?

Open any phone book and you will certainly find TV repair shops.  You don't think they have any broken computer monitors?

You can prove you own your discs when you appear in court.  Having them there will not negate any legal action against you.  You will have already been "eyeballed" using the illegal computer.  It will be too late to prove anything.  Because the papers, 9 out of 10 won't be served at or during the job.  You will get served in the mail.  Like every other legal complaint is delivered.

So if you had a back up computer you wouldn't have to put your entire tens of thousands of dollars worth of original discs in danger of theft or other damage.  Think of the trips you could save.  Your discs on the job argument is useless.  And a waste of time.  Won't stop or prevent anything.  Just takes up your time and energy carring them around, just to say you brought them.

Yep that may be true if the laptop offered everything someone could want that a desktop could provide.  Laptops are convenient, but far from perfect.



Well again, in my situaltion, i'd have my discs & player for backup no dead in the water at all for me.  May be the exception to the rule, but my company comes first.



To get a monitor 'reparied' would probablt cost more than going down to a local shop & purchasing a nw one for the next night.



Again it would probably cost more than getting a new one - try fixing a monitor on a laptop, go get a quote!



No YOU can prove your discs when YOU go to court, I can prove MY discs ON THE SPOT!  As they are there at my shows eash & every one.



It's useless to you, to me it's not a big deal, they are safely tucked into a cd coffing with slimline jewel cases.  If I need to use them I will open up the coffin & pull the disc.  See I have never had to replace a disc once in the 15 years i've been running a show.  The trips again, is not a big factor to me as they come in at the same time as the rest of my system on a nice cart. The only thing it will 'stop or prevent' is the 10 minutes of wasted (unprofessional) downtime that you seem to keep thinking is necessary to hook up a backup laptop.  I won't have any of that, i'll pull a disc & be up & running within 1 minute of a computer crash.

Don't know why you keep arguing, you don't use my method, i've already atoned to the fact that it may not be conventional but it works for me.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I'm not arguing with you.  I'm trying to show everyone else that what you do is not what everyone else has to do.  You are an exception.  You are not even close to being a mobile KJ.  This is what they (all the other KJs switching to computer) need to consider.

What magical powers does your desk top have that a laptop doesn't?

All you need is a monitor, a hard drive, an operating system, hosting program, memory, video card and sound card, keyboard and mouse.  They will play karaoke music the exact same way.  My laptop was not cheap and it performs very well.  Sounds great.  And the video is perfect.  What am i missing?

10 minutes to swap a computer is less time that it takes to haul in all of the discs and players and hook them up, just for show.  And that would only be if my laptop fails.  You haul in all of your stuff just in case.  So you do it all for nothing, because your computer never fails.

And if you were spotted using the computer to play karaoke music on, you are dead in the water.  It will already be too late.  Nothing, not even having all your discs there will save you.  Just having the computer there and turned on, makes it just as illegal.  Discs or no discs.  They may as well be home under the mattress.