Karaoke Forums

So we get invited to hear this guy play the piano at a local place. Turns out it is him and a fairly large following of people and he is a human karaoke piano player. They bring tons of music books and you actually fill out a slip to sing. Of course it is a novel idea...and we do have a local place here that does live band karaoke... but it was kind of deceptive in the way they presented it. Why not say "sing 'karaoke' style with a live pianist."  As if there is something WRONG with karaoke! .  Drawback, of course, is only people who sing with live accompaniment really feel comfortable doing it; with dozens of different arrangements, and most written in different keys, it is difficult for a mainstream karaoke singer to really enjoy it. Ended up later one of his 'traveling buddies' comes in, they do 4-5 songs in a row, thus successfully cutting out any of the invitees.

I'm pretty sure they could only get away with doing this successfully a few times a year. I was disappointed that nobody told me beforehand (I know the owner of the club and he had plenty of chances to tell me) - as I would have brought in my own arrangements and been sure on the key the piece was written in, as well as the arrangements (solos, etc.)  Other drawback: Lots of people wanted to sing but had no idea how to read music, figure out key, follow verse, chorus, solo, etc.  It ended up being embarrassing for a lot of people and I'm sure that wasn't the goal...and I think these people do have a karaoke biz because they had regular slips...

I think what is bugging me about the whole thing is the deception...Not sitting and enjoying a really great piano player...which is what I was looking forward to...just a glorified attempt at a different presentation of good ol' karaoke. Okay, I'll stop whining and crying now....

K

As a pianist myself, I've often thought that might be fun; I tend to prefer "live karaoke" myself because it's more--well--LIVE.    Yeah I know what you mean about wanting to bring in your own music--if I'm gonna sing, it helps to know if the music is in a key in which I can do it justice!  (And I'm not very good at singing and playing at the same time--I prefer to either play OR sing, rather than trying to concentrate on both!)

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I love being a mom!

I'd call it "sing along" with a pianist.  Nothing more.  If synchronising a song is important, it's very difficult for two strangers to do in music in one shot.  How could I accurately follow a vocalist who's style I have NO familiarity with ASSUMING they ARE singers to begin with ?  Now in this case, these are people that for the most part aren't musicians and have some degree of meter probs, don't know the composition well, and are VERY difficult to accompany, professional singers are tough enough, and we have to follow them, transpose, know cadence, etc.  "Sing Along" seems to be a much more accurate term..

There's a sensitivity & familiarity that enables an instrumentalist and vocalist to work together, a sensitivity BOTH must have for it to be a worthwhile experience as opposed to just a fun hack job (which is fine of course assuming people don't expect more)

Another problem is some of the best lounge pianists that play solo rendition, or accompany themselves have lost the skill for accompanying OTHERS... They have a tough time doing it !  That's an art within itself that goes beyond being a "lounge pianist",  accompanist, and lounge pianist aren't one in the same much of the time.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I went to a Piano Bar to try singing once. It wasn't billed as Karaoke. There were no song books or anything like that. The Pianist was terrific. I picked a song from Les Miserable (that I like to sing), and I didn't know how to tell the Pianist to change the key (like I would at a regular Karaoke show). I don't even know what key I sing in (I just know that I have a Tenor singing range). I ended up singing the song an octave lower and felt very off. Later on, I sang a duet from Little Shop of Horrors with my friend. We did very good with that.


The main thing is, you really have to know the song you're singing at this place, and since I am so used to having prompters (even with songs that I do know by heart), I felt very out of my element. It's not something that I would go out of my way to try again, but if the opportunity arrises, I would be willing to try it again.

Actually I remember going to piano bars as far back as 1975 and doing the sing along thing.  They were very popular back in the day and since I live the retirement mecca of Central Florida we still have a few around.  I would say these were the precursors of Karaoke rather than a rip off of Karaoke.  Folks sit around a big piano and sing and listen and drink, it's a decent concept and not an easy gig for the performers, paid or paying.  Things were easier back when lots of songs were considered "Standards" and pretty much everyone learned how to read music in school, you could at least follow along and probably do some harmony with someone on a song you barely knew...

I think that piano bars are probably more of an older crowd kind of thing, in our Church we still have older folks lamenting the loss of hymn books with music in them for the congregation as we have gone to power point lyrics on a big screen now, they are lost without the music and it's tough for them.  They get used to it but they still gripe even though we have been doing it this way for over a decade now.  On guitar or piano I tend to prefer a lead sheet format with just the chords and lyrics myself over full standard notation.  More room to play around with the arrangement, but for some the standard notation is still the only way to go, singing or playing....

BSR

Well, no...piano bars have been around longer than karaoke.  Some of the ones in NY are pretty famous - Don't Tell Mama's, the Duplex...they generally DON'T run like karaoke.  They tend to be a bit more..hmmm...free flowing than karaoke. There isn't the rotation like in a karaoke setting.  People will request songs they want to hear if they don't sing, and the pianist will perform it or ask a regular who they know sings that song to come sing it, and people who sing will put in a request of what they want to sing.  And yes, they can be somewhat cliquish and depending on how well the pianist knows the singer, some singers will be allowed to sing a few songs at a time.  

A good pianist in these places will usually be able to help a person figure out their key really quickly before they start singing if they don't have sheet music and/or don't know their key.  They'll ask "What key do you do it in?" and if you say "I don't know," they'll play a bit in a couple different keys so you can figure out what feels comfortable to you.  The nice thing about a piano bar as opposed to karaoke is that - generally - the pianist is FABULOUS and will follow the singer - allowing for more freedom of interpretation.  

No, it's probably not the best situation to throw someone into if they are used to/expecting a karaoke type situation.  So...yeah...would have been nice if your friend had told you what to expect as opposed to making it sound like you were going in for an evening of listening to a painist.  It is a different type of crowd and atmosphere.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Well at least for "lounge" work with others, or casual accompaniment: (for me)
"Ear", sensitivity, and some 6th sense of feel and movement (sensing movement, where hesitation might be, being very intuitive, LISTENING and trying to read between lines (metaphorically), FEELING what will come, and meshing), YEP, it's all about how well you follow the lead and "back them", meaning ideally "hitting it off" which requires an aspect of familiarity with comp and styling VERY basically and than A LOT more was what I had to resort to.  There's something tough to describe when two musicians are able to hit it off... It clicks or it doesn't.  It was all about adaptation.. Sight reading impeded me too much. I just had to KNOW what I was doing and then some...

Sometimes you just feel sense and know what the other is going to do before they even do it based upon what they've done up to a given point... and this is based upon conditioning, and two familiar with style. I have to be SUPER-adaptable when doing accompany work, but that's comtemp/ pop or oldies lounge style... Show is VERY different and requires decent ability to sight read etc etc... and classical isn't an area I've dabbled in at all due to it's level of sophistication in sight-reading, and theory-comp which I opted to forget shortly after I learned it in what was a CRITICAL style I branched AWAY from.

The strict skill and technical grounding required in classical accompaniment is BRUTAL IMHO... I think I'd have an easier time today in Rocket Science  :shock:
It's just different than what I evolved into out've choice which was the less technical musician who just "feels", and tries to stay away from the "Paint by numbers" type musical environment..

OF course this makes learning to SING REALLY TOUGH for me... in that I blend with the vocalists still ..  My niche as an accompanist is "follower", the singer is the leader !  As an "easy listening style" or lounge-style, cocktail venue soloist pianist,  it's a VERY different thing, and the competitive jobs that pay have much to do with location, location, location and location... and you have to be REALLY REALLY good because not as many bars pay in many "out-lying" areas for the live musician.  We got replaced by the DJ years ago to cut costs..  You aren't going to find many musicians that'll play a bar for KJ wages..

Of course I've gotten in more arguments with DJ's who answer to this with,  "What do you mean we aren't musicians?"... So... whatever  Heck,  the turn-table is a musical instrument too after-all.... so what do I know <shrug> I guess it's not the 60's and 70's any longer.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Sounds just like something "differant"  Not wrong or right.
Can't blame the Pianist for putting his own touches to his piano playing ability.

I've sung with accompanists before but the majority of people who go to karaoke have NOT....it turned out to be pretty embarrassing for them. Some of them were pretty proud of their singing until they sang with a live accompanist and crashed and burned. It would be very difficult to get them to go back for sure, and I'm hoping this owner doesn't think he'll ever replace karaoke with this. I'm hoping he'll ask for my impression of the night as well.  

I'd definitely go to a piano bar where I was forewarned that that's what it was - take my own music, know the arrangement and key, etc., and probably do great, but 99% of the people who frequent my shows would not. This pianist was very good - in fact, I googled him and he is actually a very accomplished accordianist who plays a lot of zydeco style music (his name is Steve Rice for those of you who may be curious).

I know piano bars have been around forever  but in an area that is saturated with karaoke  like the one I'm in, this is is virgin territory for a pianist who is trying to do more than just play a good arrangement. Might work in a more metropolitan area (like downtown Seattle) but it'd be a tough go in a small rural town like this one.

Karen, do they have many open mic nights for folks who do play and sing without backup in your area?  We used to have lots of Karaoke but now it's down to a few spots on a couple f weeknights it seems.  Way more places seem to be having the open mic thing going on where you either bring your guitar and plug in and sing or use their piano and same drill or else the host will have a song list and you can duet with him/her.  I have no idea why the karaoke went out of style here like that, probably has something to do with the way severe penalties for DUI now days as many of the bars that used to have Karaoke have shut down completely.  

I had always heard from venue owners that the big draw from Karaoke was that bar reciepts were big on Karaoke nights no matter the size of the crowd.  They used to say that folks drank a lot, purportedly to get up the nerve to sing but also because of the general party atmosphere.  Now days there is more work for solo acoustic acts and way less real band and karaoke or even DJ type gigs available.  The bars that are busiest now days seem to be places where you have 2 martinis in a couple of hours or 3 glasses of expensive wine and go home, or more likely, back to your hotel.  Drinking hard and partying until last call is not nearly as common as it was ten years ago, at least in our little towns outside of Orlando.  They seem to have gone more for "Quaint" than "Fun" now days.

The couple of places I play have two or three live acts a day, Lunch, happy hour and evening.  It's very nice for folks like me but not so hot for guys with real bands.  The other side of this is that lots of the more well to do partiers now hire bands and musicians for big partys on their "Ranchettes" on the weekends.  We have lots of huge houses on huge lots where the rich owners have regular parties on a monthly basis or such.  I am definately thinking these are going to be more fun with me having some karaoke abilty in my entertainment arsenal...

It's funny how things change in the entertainment world, even in the little communities.  Ever since they stopped allowing smoking in bars and really made DUI a HUGE problem for anyone, (1st offence no license for one year, 2nd offence, 5yrs and mandatory jail time), the hard partying scene really took a nose dive

Now it's all fern bars and tourist places and the locals party at home...

BSR

Oh there are tons of open mic nights in this area (I'm talking a 25-mile radius of Seattle)...we're very fortunate that way, but there are more karaoke venues than anything. Lots of places have karaoke on week nights and live bands on weekends and the live bands complain constantly about the poor pay - and that is ever so true...I know first hand as hubby is in a band.  There are places that might have karaoke one or two nights a week, an open mic night 1-2 nights a week, and then bands on weekends.

In our area (Pacific NorthWET), of course we don't have the benefit of the beautiful warm weather you do. It is dark at 4:30 in the afternoon now and doesn't get light out until 8 a.m. We have L-O-N-G evenings and nights, and winter is a very popular time for karaoke. I know a lot of singers that go out and sing 4-5 nights a week. There's always a place around here. There seems to be a shortage of very good karaoke now, not like in years past, so the majority of the places you might go to sing at are less than pleasant. Lots of people stay out until closing even on weeknights, and closing here is 2 a.m.  We have very stiff drunk driving laws as well, and no smoking inside. I guess it's that desperation to ward of "seasonal affective disorder" that keeps people out til all hours, 7  nights a week! (PS: Not a lot of fern bars here - - they freeze! )

Don't have much experience with piano bar "karaoke" but I have seen some live band karaoke where a helper from the band puts transparancies of the lyrics up on a projector and points to where the timeing should be. This makes it a lot closer to the traditional "karaoke" but it helps a lot more if you know the songs.

Even without the lyrics a visual cue from the musicians helps a lot. In songs where there is a repetitive instrumental it is often hard to remember when the vocals come back in. Some songs repeat a theme 5 or 6 times and the vocal comes in after the 6th time for example. Really hard to remember/count if you don't know the song, and such things often change from performance to performance even with the origional artist/writer.

I have also got up to sing a song or two with a band I didnt know at all (not advertized as karaoke). In such cases eye contact with the musicians helps a lot, especially if the song choice is going to be a comproimize involving the songs the band and singer have in common, and that is rarely going to be the top choice of either side.

In live karaoke there is always going to be a lot of adjustment both by the singer and band. A good singer and musican/band can work together and sometimes produce great results on the first time, but it is tough.

Dr. Fred, I love love love love love love love love LOVE doing live band karaoke!  I wish more places had it.  In fact I was just doing some live band karaoke last night.  The problem is that the acoustics weren't as good IMHO as the place where the band used to play, and I felt like I was straining my voice to be heard (or, heck, to hear MYSELF) over them.  I didn't have that problem at the place where they used to play; I wish they were still there.

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I love being a mom!

I wish more places had pianos if they're gonna do the "jam session" thing.  My portable Casio keyboard is pretty small (it's not a toy by any means, but it's not as big as most professional ones) and I don't have any speakers for it--and I can't afford a new keyboard or new speakers right now!  I do better if someone else brings their keyboard and lets me play it, or if there's already one there.  (especially if it's an acoustic piano--that's what I do best)  Not to mention that if there's already a keyboard there, I don't have to lug mine around!

That reminds me:  At the place where I took piano lessons, they had a lot of cartoons on the bulletin board having to do with pianos.  One had a couple in a car, with a grand piano strapped to the top of the car, and the man says to the woman, "Well, suppose they DON'T ask you to play?!"  

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I love being a mom!