Karaoke Forums

I joined Singsnap and not only do I have a few fans, but I'm getting FLUFFED

 Somebody hold my head, I'm feel extremely nauseous  Me Kappy,  getting fluffed ?    Good thing I don't let them rate me,  I might end up a "10"      Why can't people just tell me I suck, and kick my butt around like my buds..   This fluff stuff is horribly debasing.  I have a reputation at stake.  WTF.... "WOW. can you sing"...  Maybe they don't know who they are talking too !   Now I'm mif'd !!!!!!!!!

Billy,   tell me that I'm maybe a "4" again on a good day !   I need a dose of reality ! (lest I may start printing out the fluff, and plastering 10 ranks on my wall !)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well....... *%#$@!........ some other site's fluff is good enough for you, but ours isn't?

 :dancin:

It's a universal thing Kappy, happens at live shows too.  :yes:

But, bear in mind, (not fluffing, just being honest)... you will ALWAYS be harder on yourself than anyone else will. Just make sure you keep the "now" recordings to compare to later, or you will never hear nor believe your own improvement.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Sorry Charmin,  Haven't been around much lately..  The singing finals pool of 500 has narrowed down to 4 (naturally I'm in the top four) and I'm really famous now..OK,  can't stay here,  I have :10:s to frame and fans comments to print out and plaster all over my walls.. TTYL (maybe I will talk to you but it depends on just how famous I become, now naturally if I win these finals, I'll only be associating with the famous singers such as myself-  hey,  it's just the kind of guy I am  :hug: )

See that's the nice thing about this other site,  they are completely honest !  they only give tens to us pro singers, and no fluff,  it's all the truth...   See, that's why I never wanted fluff,  How would I get so damned good so quick if you folks weren't honest with me in the first place..   As the result of not being fluffed here, I've become famous !!

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Seriously tho... I have yet to find any other singing site that has as high a percentage of talented or pro-ability singers as can be found in the Singers Showcase

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Actually there would be one thing worse then being constantly fluffed and that is thinking that you did a great job but receiving no comments at all.  LOL  Ouch!

What about thinking you did well and have the majority pick it apart!

That means you're a musician, or any other performing artist  LMAO.


Personally Joyce,  I learned to expect that in the arts, and most areas of aesthetics where feelings are subjective, always evolving, and often ego-driven.  I suppose that's what I find somewhat humorous about "10's" and copious fluff.  While it certainly feels good, I suppose all I can ponder is "Wouldn't it be nice if"...

You know what I wonder though ?    Isn't that what a performer should be prepared for in terms of the real audience ?  Super critical ?  Karaoke turns this around, true, but in real "stage" is for the performer.



We learn early how lonely it can be at the top, Don !  Jealous people do this to us quite often !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven Kaplan...
I have downloaded your recordings from that site to my computer and have saved them to a external hard drive as evidence...So that anyone wanting to hear your Pro quality talent to judge for themselves can do so at anytime upon request.  

Happy Holidays.....  LMAO

See,  Now THAT is funny !!!!  LMAO


You got me !


"Ruby,  Don't Take Your Love to Town",  "Hair", and
"Never My Love" shouldn't have been ear-bleeding painful however.  Just cause some popping and minor sinus pain.

I hope the site doesn't "feature" me.  Heck,  I can always get a job at a local carnival getting beanbags and eggs thrown at my head if I want such a thing.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm just happy to see your progress, Like they say...."Practice makes Perfect"  :yes:

Like Charmin said....

Keep all your recordings for future use so you can hear your improvements by comparison from now to say two years from now for example.

I still have some of my old recordings and in no way would I post them!!!!  But it does show how much I have progressed over the years!!  :)

I listened to you recently on the showcase btw Neo.  You are a VERY good singer !


My own perception about "singing" ballad, or contemp pop style:

In my case I'm just going to give myself permission to enjoy something that likely won't come to anything beyond a non-singer trying to sing.  This has been one heck of a challenge for me, and I can't find that "singers timbre" anywhere in me.

I don't view this as a 1-10 type thing in reality.  I see this calibrated four ways..

1) Those that can't sing, have little natural ability but sing- *shower singer who
                                                                                      should keep the door
                                                                                      shut* (me currently)

2) Those that are so-so, but are noticeably  *non-singers- doing an OK job
                                                                 impersonating. but they really
                                                                 are just wannabe singers that would
                                                                 require alot of practice and work to
                                                                 be classified as singers*

3) those that I wouldn't classify as "singers" but they sound pretty good anyway, but they certainly sound as tho they might have the natural ability if they cared enough to apply themselves, but they enjoy it, sound good enough to get people to acknowledge they are "pretty good" and it works for them-  *potential singer, but
                                                                                        never dedicated time
                                                                                        because they had
                                                                                        other things of greater
                                                                                        significance in life*

4) The Singer  (usually has all of the following-  experience, the knack, and some
    natural ability or learned ability to alter their vocal quality to sound really good.)
    Either that or something just SUDDENLY clicked in the non-singer..


If I'm lucky I'll get as far as 2, but I physically don't think I have what it takes to be a traditionally "good" singer.. I just don't have a voice that can easily be worked with IMHO... Gosh, I hope I'm wrong...

Again, this is from my own observation, personally NOT being a singer only having been around them.. I never dug in and asked "was there ever a time when you sucked like I do",  because FEW I know that are fabulous singers actually have had ANY musical training, so there's got to be "knack" there IMHO... Otherwise, why could they do it, and I can't ?

As I've stated over and over again, it's totally humiliating as an instrumentalist to not have the ability to use my voice as an instrument.. Confuses the heck out've me. At least I know many musicians that are excellent instrument players but just can't for some reason sing... Not sure why any of this is... I think in many cases at least in contemporary, pop-style it's alot of knack/ natural ability. How does a non-singer "find a timbre" that would be considered traditionally "good singing" in a genre they like ?  This is what I'm struggling with..  I think about it because I've tried it and can't do this.  So I'd like to know why many of you can ?  Or should I just assume many of you can because this is a SINGING venue, and you came here because you WERE in fact able to sing to begin with ?  In most other singing venues FEW match the caliber of "average" ability found in the showcase (which is EXTREMELY capable).  So I've found a place with other hacks that know they are hacks and don't care, they don't need or want to be what they aren't.. They don't want rank either, there's no competition, It's nice IMHO, those that wish to perform do, those that don't have a place too, or the option to sing, store, and keep totally private.... To be among others that can say "we suck, and we don't care,  we don't want critique or rank"...  Just a more casual setting where I'm not lined up next to anybody, it's just me and my cruddy sounding portfolio is where I want to be for now.. Nothing to showcase.  If I learn to sing, I'll someday "showcase" it MAYBE..

All my kidding aside, I believe in sports and arts alike, people prefer and feel more comfortable with others of similar ability.  When a talented player or artist helps them it's a gift and a good thing because it sets a higher pace.. But realistically Singing IS talent, and either a person CAN, or can not...  Those that can not, and wish to be have a place too... but NOT next to the singers... We have A LOT to work on first.. I don't care whether it's frontman lead singer, or Karaoke singer... To sing well IS a talent, and I consider those that CAN sing VERY good musicians.

This is ALL JMHO... In sports I'd pick the better athletes on my team,  in music the
                           better musicians first... Just how life is  as I see it !

I'm singing HOURS each day.. and I've moved at best, at a snails pace. BUT, I like to keep it completely realistic.. This is MY own choice.. If people tell me I suck, I can laugh it off because I can hear that I often do.. but STILL love doing it without needing approval.  Anything beyond that becomes a bonus.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I wonder if anybody ever pondered renaming "Singers Showcase",  "Karaoke Singers Spot" or something similar  :).  There's a difference IMHO assuming one is "just Karaoke". Perhaps theres so much talent in the Showcase because realistically and tacitly non-singers will be less likely to enter a place that showcases the singer.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Thanks Steven...

If it makes you feel any better....I was horrible to start with!!!!  :yes:


"Took me 10 years before I would even sing in front of my wife"...  And then I had to be three sheets to the wind!!!

She started taking me to karaoke bars and making me get up on stage and sing to her in front of a crowd....And it took me two years to get over the knee knocking shakes!!!!  I was terrified!!! But finally got over it finally...

Then it took another two years to work on my vocals getting them better trained, and recording myself over and over and comparing those recordings to the original artist....Hearing how far off I was from the original artist and then trying to get as close as possible.

I spent hours every day...Sometimes 8 to 12 hours per day, sometimes two or three days...and other times two to three hours per day five days per week after work.

I was so bent on improving that I was determined to practice every chance I got and it paid off finally!!!!  But even still I am not satisfied 100% ...


So to answer your question.....yes someone can start out a non singer and with enough patience & practice & training...Can become a decent singer assuming they are not tone deaf.

When I listen to your singing it reminds me of when I first started, I had this sound that I can only describe as being nervous and unsure of myself as if I were holding back....As if being afraid that the people living next door might hear me.

When you know that you are projecting and you are not holding back and you are not having any pitch problems and you can really get into the song and not care or worry about anything or anyone else but singing that song and singing it with all your heart!!!!  Then you know you have done your best and if it's not good enough to suit your taste then keep practicing until you are happy with it!!!!....Thats what I did!!


I have a CD that I need to send you that contains vocal training sessions by real vocal teachers, ...You might just find it to be very helpful.

*THIS* is my main source of torture.   The fact that it took a tape recorder to hear how friggin far off I actually am from sounding like those I was thinking I was "covering".. I couldn't hear it until I played ot back.. It hit me like a ton of bricks..  I was pushing EVERYTHING up into HEAD VOICE and lower falsetto area,  thinking it was "tenor" quality arena rock,  I COULDN"T have been furthur off base It was weak, nasally, and moussy sounding, yet I couldn't tell without a playbacl device... THAT'S what's scary

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I had the same problem....

 I thought I sounded real close while singing on a PA system, Then when I heard myself on a recording I was in total shock!!!! Thats when I started recording myself on a daily basis and listening and comparing to the original.  I felt that if I could get my vocals to a point to where it sounded close on tape...Then It would no doubt sound better Live!!

Thats what I had hope of anyway...


 I think it worked eventually... ... I think...

oh well...I have fun anyway!!

this is interesting stuff,  as far me i would love to say i worked my butt off learning to sing but the truth is i didn't,  i never took lessons, maybe i should have i don't know,  i think thru the years of singing i learned how to control my voice and make it do what i wanted it to do.... I'm still learning.

i think n
Neo hit the nail on the head as far as ur singing Steven, as far as sounding nervous, and lack of power...if i were you i would for sure get his cd's and practice...

i know this, u can practice all day and night long singing but if u have no clue as to what ur doing when u so called practice ur doing nothing but more harm then good...

i hate using golf again but....l....when i first started playing golf i thought i was pretty good, better then average yet no matter how much i played r how much i practiced i couldn't get any better.....so i went to a golf pro and asked for lessons, after swinging i asked him, what am i doing wrong?  he said, ur doing everything wrong and nothing right, well i fired that guy really quick....ll....no i didn't he was right, everything i had been practicing was wrong i was just doing my best with what i had learned which was all wrong.
he had me completely change my swing and my game sucked, i was worst then i had ever been, then little by little i kept getting a little better and a little better till i became pretty good, which was a lot better then i had been before, i had gone as far as i could the other way....
i say forget head voice chest voice, heck i don't even know what that is, just sing.
i think if u go back to basics make everything simple with no expectations no goals at all just sing i think u would do a lot better....i honestly think baby steps is the way to go, but u have to realize that ur a baby in this and start out as a baby....

that would be like for me to say...ok i think I'll improve my range so i think I'll start singing some queen songs....i don't think so...

find some very simple song to sing, doesn't have to be a good song just a simple song and sing it, and i mean simple as in veryyyyy simple, ur a baby remember...
forget the head voice chest voice falsetto, that will all come later....again as i said before,  u have to find out what u have to work with, u HAVE to get to know ur voice and what ur capable of.....

i can pretty much hear a song and tell u if i can do a good job of it r not, r if i can sing it at all...alotta times i can't....so i don't, unless I'm goofin off just for fun....
and as i'm listening to a song i'm thinking of what i would do that he wasn't, what i would change what i would keep....sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm not, but its all learning,  alotta times while singing a song for the first time i will try it 3 r 4 different ways while singing it all the way thru, I'm not set  on doing it his way, that's why i play with it....i keep things i throw out things...again always learning....
u will get there but i do believe u have to get to know ur voice......altho i could be completely wrong in all this...i just sing....hope this helps a little...get his cd's....

You're correct Billy,  not all of us can figure out everything on our own. While somebody knowing nothing about golf watching a good player might think everything about it is "as it looks", it's detailed and intricate, alot of critical aspects, and many paradoxes....  I might be making this too hard,  but for me to do what I wish with singing, it MIGHT be very hard, or so obvious that I'm overlooking something that a coach would need to see such as stress, breathing, etc.  I'll talk to a few singers in real who've had training.  If it's going to be "real" music and something artistically decent in a competitive area,  it won't be simple regardless.  I always have known that, don't expect it to be.

What eventually made music fun for me is that I had alot of experience with it.. I wasn't born that way, and at first learning was frustrating and uncomfortable

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

very good points steven, i never thought of that....i guess it just seems so simple to me....basic anyway....there r tons of things i wish i could do that i can't, but there r plenty things that i do that to be honest i didn't even know i was doing...a few people will say, oh u have great control, well to me i'ts just singing...nothing i learned not knowingly anyway....i'm sorry if i made lite of it as it's just so simple why can't u do it....i didn't mean it that way....i just meant....it's so simple why can't you do it.....ll....and ur right when a pro golfer swings he does make it seem sooooo simple....keep it up...

I don't mean to get off topic or anything, and will only say this and then go back into my corner and keep to myself...

But....I have the CD ready and will send it to Billy, ...Then if Billy see's that others may find it helpful....Then I'll leave it up to Billy to make it available to others...etc.


So... if Billy or Milo would give me an address to send it, Then it will be on it's way ASAP.

This CD is very detailed and will take time and patience to listen to... as it has 86 tracks that are from two different coaches on anything from Breathing to expanding your range to Vocal exercises to perfect pitch...etc....From basics to more advanced stuff.

If interested....I'll be glad to send it, if not I understand....Just trying to help is all.

I think anyone wanting to improve would find it helpful.


Just let me know by pm....& btw...Happy new year everyone!!!  

There are naturals.  I had a buddy in college.  This guy crammed the day before exams, but HOW he crammed was what I never understood,  He'd have a government book open in a roomful of friends with a ballgame on and have conversations at the same time.. He still was able to absorb all he read.

Same guy, just seemed to be naturally gifted in "ball sports".. Baseball triple A, soccer amazing control either playing wing, halfback, fullback or goalie. Tennis amazing coordination, golf,  yeah, he was real good, he said he started by target shooting with an iron.. but despite how tough golf is, he was able to play along side the better golfers with ease, basketball, same control..  I never understood why this was..

Irony is he envied that I could pick up guitar, bass, piano etc, and just play anything I heard within minutes by ear..

Well,  my hand-eye coordination sucks, and while different folks have different natural abilities.. All I know is my voice is NOT like ANY instrument I have ever picked up..  Like I said Billy, this would be less embarassing for me if I wasn't a musician..  This is tougher for me than golf btw..  While I always sucked at golf, I had some instruction and at least learned ALL I'd have to practice and concentrate on to BEGIN to learn to play, and I was too stubborn and impatient and self-critical to bother with it..BUt,  At least when I botched up badly, I could hear it... I can't hear myself as I sound when I even listen to my singing.. I'm that BLIND or deaf to how I sound...

You have natural ability.. Likely did in golf too but got into habits that were broken in time..  Another reason I should take some singing instruction, what if, for some weird reason, I DO have a certain amount of natural ability, but just haven't a clue what style, range, etc it is ?

Problem is, in my case it's tougher for me to admit to MYSELF, that there's something in an area of music, I have a disadvantage in, and MOST have greater aptitude (or so it currently appears).. Sure I state it, but to really admit to myself that there's something in music I do poorly is tougher to really digest.. I think most would throw in the towel, but like courses in school I flunked,  I challenge them, retake them wanting to know WHY these things are so tough.. I don't want to sing poorly, while I allow myself that issue..If I don't improve, I'm going to have a REALLY tough time with this, or settle for what I can do and not try to be more... whether it's remote harmony.. etc..

For now, It's overcoming the psychological conditioning that a when a microphone appears in front of me, bandmates look nervous, and try to get it away quick..

Next step is to find out WHY I never sounded as good as some of you that are naturals.. I guess the question is,  what is it you naturals have when you sing that I don't ? Is it vocals chords, confidence, and comfort in the area that you folks have to begin with ?   Sure, it sounds like a tantrum, but is it wrong to wonder, what are they doing, that I'm not doing ?  They never had lessons either.

In Sports and Music alike, "NATURAL APTITUDE" have always been a great base to grow on.. So I also have to wonder whether or not I was taught music at such an early age that it just became my first language.. yet nothing I actually have or ever had "Natural" ability in.. but rather something I did and was emersed in and exposed to basically from infancy..

Look at some of these amazing impersonators that "become" the person, many of them comedians, funny thing is they can often sing using nuances of a persons voice they are doing parody with too.. Does Dana Carvey, and Jim Carrey have a "knack" to do what they do, to assimilate and become ?   because not all can be trained to act and impersonate like they do.

What do you know that I don't Billy ?      I say this half joking, but WHY can't I sing one tiny faction as good as you ?  You've had no lessons.. Why is this easier for you ?

These are all things that run thru my head..  A guess a positive thing is,  those that oogled at my guitar playing and wanted lessons years back, I was able to teach to play in many cases, some had such a drive they didn't take long to figure what I knew, was conveying to them, and go steps beyond becoming better than I ever was or likely will be.. Feels good when a student outdoes you IMHO..I never taught  because I needed the money,  I wanted those that loved something to be able to do it !   I felt and feel if I can do it,  most can..  It brought me alot of enjoyment..

Natural vs learned skill does confuse me.

Golf tho... I STILL was so friggin stubborn that rather than accept velocity of club head drives the ball and the relaxed non-constricted swing doesn't top the ball because it's simple propulsion physics, mass and velocity drives ball... I had to insist on things working my way meaning.... you swing really really fast, which means more muscle and to compensate for arms constricting, raise the tee, and power that ball down the fairway...  I never accepted the paradoxes, and drove people bizerk. relaxed swing just seemed to strange to drive a ball hundreds of yards,,LOL..and the grip and stances... those were uncomfortable..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".