Karaoke Forums

Where I used to KJ(The Grand)  we had an old guy named Johnny who was kinda a fixture--hed been coming there as long as I had been going there--9 yrs. He was terrible--horrible voice---always sang Elvis and Spriit in the Sky with this terrible gravelly speaking vioce. He used a cane and I had to bring the slips and songbook and mic to him as he couldnt stand and sing. He never bought much but he was basically harmless and the others tolerated him and he never tried to offend anyone---but over time his health detriorated even further and his hygiene was a problem and he became incontinent(and yes i had to mop the floor from where he had pee'd himself once). But he finally stopped coming around and i can only speculate that he maybe had finally succumond and passed away. But man I sure did cring everytime he hobbled in and brought up his slips. But never once did I ever make him feel unwelcome or treat him with anything other than respect----even if he smelled bad or his pants were wet.  I even kinda have missed him a bit--and he certainaly was loyal about coming out to my show. All I can say is ----approach such people with some patience and kindness----cause it just may be that YOU will be that VERY SAME person in YOUR LATER YEARS OR DECLINING HEALTH.  

Ive already have had a bit of a taste of that myself of late--but thats another story.

---LATE-----

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

extremists and zealots are responsible for most catastrophes in history, the cruisades, the holocaust, etc etc...or are they? Are those that simply stand by and let it happen or turn their backs and pretend they dont see not just as guilty?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

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look, karaoke is not about other people telling you to do certain songs, although at the time I'm in it now, I like suggestions. I even found a niche that I was good at DUE to a couple of lovely ladies that asked me to start singing led zep songs... come to find out, I've got a voice nearly like Robert Plant's is! (wish I really was THAT good! !)

But my first couple of years singing? Oh my God! Some of them were just the horribly depressing slower love songs... finally one guy, a boss of mine that was out with us, laughingly yelled out, "Matt, yer KILLIN' Us! Too Depressing!" And I realized that's ALL I sang! ! So I started to look around at what else interested me.

But a LOT of my regulars over the years and many of the guy that taught me most of what I know... they would do the same songs over and over. In fact, this dude kept their song slips, and he loved it, as he didn't go through near so many slips anymore... they'd just pick out their rotation and hand the slips in... me? I like to do a new song every now and then.

But that's after YEARS of doing this. Not everyone is so outgoing, so reasonable. It's hard to fathom why this guy might like doing these same songs over and over... but you know, that's not up to US to determine that.

Whether or not he "belonged" at that type of show (isn't that the same phrase WHITES ONLY restaurants used to use back in the 50s and 60s?), he certainly deserved to be treated more respectfully than being told that he sucks and that nobody likes his songs.

It's bad enough to say that to anybody in this kind of situation, but it's worse to tell that to a 76 year old man, that is just beyond disgusting.  

There was no good way for this situation to be handled, but it could have been handled somewhat tactfully regardless.  Instead they chose to humiliate this poor man AND had some punk-ass kid do the humiliating.  It's just beyond shameful.

re-inv well spoken

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

When I read this, I also got teary-eyed. But also a huge wave of anger came over me. How dare they do that to anyone- especially a loyal customer- and then have the nerve to have you, the kj, be the fall guy (or maybe the management just didn't have the cajones to run a business in the first place). Maybe a complaint to the Better Business Bureau may do the trick.

As heartless as this sounds, I believe that establishments "Reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." I have never seen this invoked, nor am aware of what possible ramifications may occur if this clause is ever used. I do hope, however, that the establishment has opened itself up to some legal proceedings- I would love to see them get their just desserts.

When self respect goes so does respect for others. When there is little respect left everything goes to pot.

jreynolds - If your post needs to be that long to make your point then so be it. Don't sweat it man.

Years and many years ago I was playing pool in the local bar. In a few days I was going down to take the navy physical. Felix was and old man that I had known for years he was a mentor to many. In this neck of the woods we take care of and respect our seniors. Anyway Felix came in and said hi to evertbody and grabbed a hard back chair put it in front of the jukebox sat on it backwards and folded his old arms on the back.

He put quarters in for 3 songs apiece  and sit listening intently in another time and place. Certain songs would play and tears would run down his cheeks sometimes smiling and sometimes hurt on his face. The rest of us had lost our concentration for playing pool but were going through the motions. Pretty soon the jukebox was quiet and he sighed got up and put the chair back where it was waved and walked out into the night.

That was the last time I saw Felix. But I have carried that memory for many years A few times singing an old song that image of Felix with his arms on the back of that chair would pop in my mind and tears would flow. Those are my type of memories. Those kept me sane on the other side of the world during homesick and lonely times.

I dont have one about telling an old man he cant sing in my bar or show nor would I like to carry that burden the rest of my life. BTW I'm 67 you want to throw me out of your bar? You better do it before I sing or I will own the crowd and have more control than the owner or anybody else

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I read this entire thread and I have to admit that I too got a bit misty eyed when I read what took place. You were definitely put in an awkward position. I am good friends with the owner of the bar that my brother does his karoke show at, as a matter of fact the owner is my next door neighbor. I don't think this guy would ever do that to someone. My brother has full control of his show at this bar, but it hasn't always been that way at other bars. We at times deal with idiots and drunks in this business as you all do, but to ask this harmless older gentleman to leave for the reasons you stated is simply ridiculous. Without being overly dramatic, you simply don't know his situation and whether this had a devasting impact on him or hardly any at all.

Years ago when my brother was running a KJ show for a friend at a sports bar here in town we had a rather unique older gentleman. He sang one song a night, and he was really bad, it was, The Rolling Stones " You got me Rocking " . This guy would sit at the bar dressed in all black and wearing a black hat like someone from the civil war, and not talk to anyone, I mean he wouldn't even try to talk to anyone. People were tolerant of his singing, but he was a rather strange character. As the weeks went by he finally started to talk to a few of the regulars. Well come to find out, he said he was a retired professor from some major university, I don't remember where, but some people were reluctant to believe him.

One night an engineer from one of the local chemical plants heard about his claims and sat with him and began to nicely question him about his education. The man in black got a bar napkin and wrote down a few math equations and handed them to the engineer. I was there but I don't quite remember what the engineer said but it was something to the effect of " I think he's telling the truth" He ended up being the nicest man and a bit of an icon at this bar for a long time.

Our current situation is a bit different, we have a fellow whom we call Pepper, he is an early to mid fifties black man who is mentally handicapped, not Down Syndrome. Pepper walks everywhere he goes ( and usually he's not going anywhere just walking because that's what he does ) and walks at a pace in this south Texas heat that would probably induce a heat stroke in most people.

He also is a unique person, he's friendly and usually doesn't talk to any one person for too long. Pepper's physique would make any fitness buff jealous, he's cut and has big arms for being a slender build and probably has a body fat percentage of 5 or 6 percent, he is not emaciated. Pepper is missing his top front 4 teeth so his enunciation on some words is kind of muddy. He is actually a really good singer, incredible range and very soulful voice and he hardly ever looks at the screen. He loves to sing and over the last few years we have taken him under our wing, we feed him occasionally and he'll even drink one or two beers with us.

I am by no means a saint, not a bad person either by any stretch, but as someone on this forum wrote, "random acts of kindness are the best" or something to that effect. I know I sleep better at night knowing I've treated a less fortunate person with kindness and tolerance. I guess my point is there is room for everyone as long as they are harmless and aren't intentially bothering people. Oh and Pepper is on a Youtube video singing karaoke at a Tejas Cafe here in Victoria, it's from several years ago and it is not my brothers show. Sorry for the long post, this just hit home with me.

no need to apologise, I think it hit quite a few of us quite hard

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Thanks Morgan, we'll all get old someday..........if we're lucky.

honey I would rather not...my ideal would be to die in my sleep whilst still the topic of public conversation  :whistle:

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I don't wish to die... I'm going to become Asian, and move to a culture where they don't put us out to pasture when we become old and frail,  Western society is horrible the way it treats it's elderly...  We live in a culture that's designed for the young, attractive, and wealthy...  Yes,  If I could afford a boat that'd support my piano and guitars, I'd leave... I get tired of hearing "Kappy, if you aren't happy here, you can always take a boat elsewhere"...  Not that I'm NOT happy here,  there's a lot about this superficial "book cover" culture I dislike..


I've already made arrangements to move into Jians garage and share an alcove with his Civet.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Kappy the above situation is not of the norm. I have spent a lot of time in College bars UNC CSU doing karaoke or NTN or QB,ng the Broncos.  Most are good kids I would go into a strange place and sing old country music and they would go nuts When they found out I was drinking cokes they had the utmost admiration They would listen to the old ways and whats wrong with this society now. THey all loved me There are many now with no respect for their elders but they are in the minority at least in this part of the country which is still of an agriculture  society.

Had that been me when that kid approached with that crap I would have politely put him in his place and let him know if he insisted OK But you are in trouble son. BTW whats the owners name? When is your liquor license renewal due? Can I get your full name? Do want to put that in writing? Do you maintain a current 86 list with reasons Is it posted public? Is it registered with the city? If I am 86;d I demand an interview with your boss whether it is the beverage and food mngr or the owner.

You dont 86 anybody just because you dont like them This is a slur on your character and if it goes into any record (86 lists here have to registered with the authority that issues the liquor license) a lawsuit is possible. .As with some here many make assumptions about laws or bar situations. I really dont think that situation is closed and and done esp if that old man has children. If it was my father or grandfather in my younger days there would have been some bloody noses.
If it happened in our area I would do and I would do it hard..

EDIT: Twenty years ago this scenario would be surreal at best. I find it hard to fathom although with the extremists and polarized (@$%&#!)&oles we have now it very well could happen..It would not happen in our neck of the woods. I find most here find it extreme and repulsive as i do as a senior and I might add a very experienced ELDER. This thread has shown me which people here that I would want at my show or whom I would want to sing with THANK YOU..

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The only way I would 86 someone is if they consistantly violated one of my guidelines such as getting up with the current singer and trying to sing with them without the current singer's permisssion,  disrespect for my equipment by swinging or tossing the mike in the air etc. Aside from that people are encouraged no matter what age they are (provided they are old enough to drink as most places I run shows are out and out bars and don't cater to the family crowd).

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

This situation sounds like a case of ageism to me.  This elderly man was not fitting into the desired clientele profile of "gorgeous, young, hip and happening". I have a feeling it wouldn't have mattered what songs he sang -- he just didn't "fit in".  Has this club ever wanted to kick out some kid in his 20's for singing songs badly over and over again?  Very sad indeed!!

you don't have to (('86)) someone just to tell them to leave or not frequent the property. ANY Business has the right to refuse service to ANYONE for ANY reason.

While I don't LIKE it, they DO have that right to do so!

Yes they can.  However depending on who this older man has on his side (in terms of witnesses), depending on his tenacity, willingness to spend money on a Civil Rights case (of Principle),  this is clearly a human rights violation, or (again assuming the patron has people to go to bat for him as witnesses) illegal age descrimination, since a person can be refused service for any reason EXCEPT for reasons that fall into human rights violations, and can show evidence of illegal discrimination.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ditto. They were  lining the stage below me dancing and looking up at me as I did some of my songs. Then again I didn't show up week after week, and I think they liked my singing....

In Carlisle, PA, on my recent trip, the leading KJ in town is an 80-year-old who runs shows for college-age students. I went in to his show on a Sunday night, and it was packed with college kids.

The kids are not the problem, it is the management with rabbit ears who is looking to blame their problems on one poor old man. 9 minutes a night wasn't going to hurt anyone.

The old fellow could have done better by trying to learn one or two new songs, too. It is boring for anyone to keep doing the same thing over and over again, no matter what their age.