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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:07 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Reason being Jian, In my case I've spent my life truly believing I couldn't do this, and that's not a good thing. I'm going to give this 100% and do it with the help of people in here ! Which means I need to clean up my attitude and psych myself INTO this all around. I really never knew that confidence is so important. I thought I person first needed to have a singers voice, and after that it was just technique. Nothing more. I was wrong..
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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Jian
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:28 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:18 pm Posts: 4080 Location: Serian Been Liked: 0 time
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ANYBODY who can talk with a normal voice and who is NOT completely tone deft CAN sing. You already have the advantage; being trained in music and plays major instrument. The problem is you look at it as a disadvantage. You want perfection. You can't get to that level, but you can be good. There is a big different between those two words; one is attainable the other is a dream.
and when I first started I was at a disadvantage, being tone deft (and still is to a lesser degree)
_________________ I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:03 pm |
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god if you were truely tone deft you would always be that way... ![whistle :whistle:](./images/smilies/emot-whistle.gif)
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:15 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Jian is developing very good ear-training skill. Like all else it's familiarity.
You are correct tho Jian, I'm extraordinarily self-competitive, and I do a number on myself in being this way.
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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Jian
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:25 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:18 pm Posts: 4080 Location: Serian Been Liked: 0 time
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MorganLeFey @ 31st October 2007, 1:03 pm wrote: god if you were truely tone deft you would always be that way... ![whistle :whistle:](./images/smilies/emot-whistle.gif)
You did not have the chance to listen to my first recording..... flat out off key.
_________________ I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott
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Jian
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:27 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:18 pm Posts: 4080 Location: Serian Been Liked: 0 time
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Jian @ 31st October 2007, 1:25 pm wrote: MorganLeFey @ 31st October 2007, 1:03 pm wrote: god if you were truely tone deft you would always be that way... ![whistle :whistle:](./images/smilies/emot-whistle.gif) You did not have the chance to listen to my first recording..... flat out off key.
Now I am mostly off pitch at the end of each line.... not bad but not good yet.
_________________ I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:32 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Quote: Now I am mostly off pitch at the end of each line.... not bad but not good yet.
The recent sub I heard was :good:
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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Jian
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:00 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:18 pm Posts: 4080 Location: Serian Been Liked: 0 time
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Yes, but I have to put a hell lot of effort to get to that level for that song. Yes it took me almost a month to learn that song to be at that level.
_________________ I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:19 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Quote: Yes it took me almost a month to learn that song to be at that level.
WOW, I see you are trying even harder than I am.. and I thought I was efforting to do this ![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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P Tucker
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:41 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:24 am Posts: 835 Songs: 42 Been Liked: 9 times
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Hey Steven. ![wave :wave:](./images/smilies/emot-wave.gif) I just listened to your song link at K-Solo.
I know you said you didn't want public critique as of yet, but this really doesn't count as a real critique, so I'm just letting you know I checked it out.
The only thing I noticed from the start was that you were maybe using headvoice?
I didn't know the original song, so I took a listen to the 30 sec. clip of the original. It sounded like the singer was using more force in his voice when it started, so that's where I assumed you used headvoice.
Using headvoice is pretty tough for me too. It doesn't get the vocal volume up enough, so the music tends to drown out the vocal. In a song where there are headvoice parts, it works out better when the music volume drops, or the music is lighter and minimal to be able to hear the headvoice.
You do have a nice vibrato in your voice. I just couldn't hear you very well from the low vocal volume. It was almost as though you were shy. Just jump right in.
I'm definitely not qualified to give any real advice here though....just trying to go from what I heard. And I don't think it's impossible for you to sing. Just gotta keep the force and volume up so the voice doesn't crack from the low volume level.
Don't give up. Although I feel like giving up all the time from something as minor as not being able to imitate a certain singer's vocal tone....that's just me. I'm more into trying to imitate I guess, so then I lose quality from not being able to just be myself. ![wave :wave:](./images/smilies/emot-wave.gif)
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P Tucker
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:19 am |
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ok What Now @ Sun 28 Oct, 2007 wrote: hi, i sub under C hoping at least 1 person will be honest with me, and as long as they give me a 10 i feel they're being honest.... ![lol lol](./images/smilies/emot-LOL.gif) ll....any less than a 10 and i think they're getting even with me.... ![Just Kidding j/k](./images/smilies/joke.sml.gif) kkk....i do feel some r being honest... PC? u say before u go out singing live u practice, what do u practice? just the song itself? r are there certain things u work on as ur singing....and if so before u go out do u feel that ur practice helped you. and because of that practice u will sing better? r is what ur calling practice really just going over a song to feel more comfortable with it before u get up to sing it...nothing wrong with that it's just not practice.... to me i would make sure that the song i was going to sing, r songs, were in the right key for me....that's a biggie, if ur straining to hit notes a lot then my bets it's a tad too high, there's no shame in lowering a key.... breath control......first of all i never go out and sing a song for the first time.....unless it's just goofin off.... each song has a lot to learn about it....where do u take breaths ? where do u take the deeppppp breaths? the high notes...for some, low notes.... to me if ur prepared before singing a song the rest will flow pretty well...ur much more relaxed so ur able to sing better.... on stage is NOT the place to fix things, r try new things.....go with what u know...practice at home.... some feel u have to be 100% before u get up to sing....if that were the case i would never sing....u have good nights bad nights everyone does....no biggie... expecting too much breeds stress, just relax have fun... i think some have a gift to sing....born with it....others have talent to sing, while others have all the above, some have to work their butts off just to stay on key and no matter how hard they work it doesn't seem to get any easier...that's the way it is with everything...... i found out a longgg time ago, that there are tons better then i am, that in itself made it easier for me to get up and sing for the first time...i wasn't the best but i wasn't the worst either...but even if u r the worst that doesn't mean u have to stay the worst... u may have just been in a room full of ringers that night.... a friend of mine asked me to go out to karaoke with him 1 night, i had never gone before...we went i got up and sang and got down....he said i sounded great i think i sucked, but all clapped....so it was ok....i could tell he wanted sooooo bad to get up and sing but never did, it took me 2 yrs to get him up to sing....yes he sucked, but he got up there, truth is after that night u couldn't get him down....good r bad he was hooked....as i said he sucked, in every sense of the word...and i told him so, in a nice way.......wasn't long he was asking me after he had sung...if he was the best in the room, r was he second r third best....i told him, my god son u just started singing what do u think? he took the hint....he started recording on his comp...sending to me to critique...and i would be honest with him....well it's been a couple years now and before i would say he was a 3 r 4, not even average...today i'll say he's a solid 7, sometimes an 8, he's come a long way, i think singing often is very important, it's kinda like using a hammer, at first it feels kinda funny flopping in ur hand then u learn how to hold it and let ur wrist do most of the work....by doing that u find ur arm doesn't get near as tired....same with singing...sure u need to practice but u have to have fun too, just let go and sing....i found that by just singing u in time fix alotta the problems u have singing, r u find ways around them...r they the right ways? betting not but if they work.... breath control to me anyway is just doing it, finding out what u need to do when and how much to breath then doing it....i know nothing about how to get more air...r the correct way to sing, i just sing... for me when singing if i happen to take a song some place i hadn't planned on it going yet it sounds good that way...that excites me....that's when i feel i'm learning.... some say, slow down r speed up ur vibrato...yea right...lately i do have better control of it, depending on the key....but it's not something i practice....i'm a lazy singer, if it's gonna take time i find ways around it so it doesn't....that way i can call it all mine.... ![lol lol](./images/smilies/emot-LOL.gif) l...not always a good thing... Steven? i have mixed feelings on what u said about subbing here...if ur waiting till ur good enough to sing on here, then it could be a long wait....r u could be good enough already....personally i think any level of singing talent is fine on here... if u ask 4 people on here in private what ur singing like and all 4 say u sing fine nothing to worry about...go for it.....would u believe um? r would u want to find 4 more that felt the way u do, that ur not good enough yet....is it an excuse to stay away from being a front man? like u said YOU have to confront urself and realize the truth about YOUR own singing...i think as long as u feel and think u suck at singing what someone r anyone else says won't make a difference.... i believe u have to believe in urself, and if you do really suck, then u have friends like me to tell u so.... ![lol lol](./images/smilies/emot-LOL.gif) ll PC said something about well he can hear himself he knows how good r bad he is he doesn't need anyone to tell him....i disagree, most singers i feel beat themselves down a lot, believing they can't sing as well as they can....that's normal i think...but what do i know about normal.... ![lol lol](./images/smilies/emot-LOL.gif) l....i'll sub a song and know there are alotta things wrong with it, yet no one catches it,....i don't think they're listening to every word to see if it's off r not... i know i don't, i take the whole song in then i let u know how i felt about it.... i found that most of the very good singers r the ones that feel they can't sing very well...and the ones that can't carry a tune feel they can do no wrong... ok that was JMO....for what it's worth....Billy
Hey Billy. ![wave :wave:](./images/smilies/emot-wave.gif) Thanks for the inquiry.
I guess what I mean by practice before going out to sing is....getting to know the song better....trying to remember the mannerisms if it's a totally new song to me, or remembering when there's an especially difficult breathing part of the song...etc...
I rarely ever try to do something that I've never heard myself on before. If it's posted here in SS, you can bet I've probably risked trying it atleast once out at live karaoke.
I know one night a while back I tried a new alternative rock song that I've never practiced yet just because I felt like....hell with it, if I screw it up, the other ones I do might be okay enough, and sure as hell, while I was trying to do the new one, some girl on her way to the restroom pinched my side as she walked by me, and I lost my concentration and missed a whole screen of lyrics....
I just picked it up later and finished it, but I'm sure it was totally terrible anyways.
Then, last Sunday night, we went out for my daughter's B-day, and I was drinking whiskey and beer. Drank too much...then when it was my turn to sing, I could barely catch my breath in between verses and screwed up a song that I've done pretty easily before....even though it's a tough song! I was embarrassed. Drinking and singing really doesn't mix for me. I need to be atleast 80% before I can do well on a song. I was 30% when that happened.
Even though most of my stuff is far from perfection, I really try to give my best. That's why I record myself. I bet alot of people who sing live have never heard themselves before. I heard a dude the other night out do a popular alternative rock song, and even though it seemed like he knew the song pretty well, he started in the wrong pitch, and stayed in the wrong pitch for the whole song! That's what I worry about the most! Recording ourselves prior to going out really is a good thing. ![wave :wave:](./images/smilies/emot-wave.gif)
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:00 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Thanks Perry. On The Wedding song I believe I toggled back and forth between regular voice, and lower register head-voice. Yes, I am still shy, and afraid I suppose. Thanks for listening ! I'm trying to get out've headvoice. At least that's the goal.
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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MorganLeFey
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:04 pm |
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actually Billy I am offended I thought I had always been scrupulously honest with you ![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."
![Image](http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n9/TheRavingRedHead/witchflying.gif)
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P Tucker
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:34 pm |
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Hey again. ![wave :wave:](./images/smilies/emot-wave.gif) One thing to remember also is that in karaoke or whatever, we are trying to sing to an original artist's track, so the original artist is the one who has set the.........standard?
Who's to say that it is a good standard unless that artist had professional singing lessons?
If you created an original song, then your rendition would be the set standard for everyone else to try to mimic or re-invent to their own standards.
Did that make any sense?
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:59 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Quote: Hey again. One thing to remember also is that in karaoke or whatever, we are trying to sing to an original artist's track, so the original artist is the one who has set the.........standard? Who's to say that it is a good standard unless that artist had professional singing lessons? If you created an original song, then your rendition would be the set standard for everyone else to try to mimic or re-invent to their own standards.
Did that make any sense?
In karaoke the musicians aren't going to attempt to change dynamics and alter song tempo to accomodate the lead singer. You need to follow the backing very closely. I know that's not among one of my more profound statements, but you really need to know the rendition
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:14 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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How can I raise my vocal range 1 1/2 steps ? I'd be able to do a pretty good Chicago if I could do that ! I feel that I'm currently caught in a somewhat dead register regarding song choice.. Dunno
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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Chuck2
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:08 am |
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Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:35 am Posts: 4179 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Been Liked: 3 times
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Practice young grasshopper. You must first strengthen your lungs and throat before you can do the hard stuff.
I think you will be able to do it eventually.
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:39 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Thanks Chuck, What's happening is as patient as I said I'd be ? Well, I'm starting to forget that this takes practice, and expecting results, meaning I'm assuming that this is how I will ALWAYS be... I suppose I don't understand about how this singing stuff works, and I forgot about how "Practice" is what it takes... Yes, songs I had a tougher time singing one week ago, are somewhat easier now in some cases
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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P Tucker
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:13 am |
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Steven Kaplan @ Sat 03 Nov, 2007 wrote: How can I raise my vocal range 1 1/2 steps ? I'd be able to do a pretty good Chicago if I could do that ! I feel that I'm currently caught in a somewhat dead register regarding song choice.. Dunno
I only get extended range when I sing in a throat voice.
Like on that Don Henley stuff. I'm usually sitting when I do that stuff, almost half bent over, tensing my abdominal muscles and forcing a higher pitched sound from my throat after taking a deep breath, then exhaling slowly in the verse of the song. And yes, it's funny....I look constipated, and my face is probably as red as a beet.
That's why I have a hard time catching my breath inbetween verses on a fast paced song like that hard metal stuff. It almost feels as though I'm going through a 4 1/2 minute song on 4 breaths.
But if I didn't try to sing like that, my voice would sound the same on everything, and that would really suck to me.
I don't really sing enough to strengthen my throat though. I always find that after a few tries on a difficult song, my throat is weak and feels like it's closing up, or has no more to give. ![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:45 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Quote: only get extended range when I sing in a throat voice. Like on that Don Henley stuff. I'm usually sitting when I do that stuff, almost half bent over, tensing my abdominal muscles and forcing a higher pitched sound from my throat after taking a deep breath, then exhaling slowly in the verse of the song. And yes, it's funny....I look constipated, and my face is probably as red as a beet
You know what's sortuh funny Perry, I do the same thing (although I stand), what I notice is I try to push my register higher by singing from what is that throat area, I need to avoid projecting from the torso region (when doins so) because assuming I do, I'll be screeching or in noticeable head/falsetto range... but I end up getting constricted, tense, feel like gagging, and I actually lose range.. I suppose the secret is learning how to keep the body from tensing during such a pushed process. Keeping relaxed, and I'm sure in my case it's inability to relax and breathe properly.
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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