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As a KJ the setup would have been aborted. They do it one now they will be running off your singers as they dont qualify to their standards and it will only get worse. They dont choose my customers.

If I was one of your regs I would get up to sing announce over the mic that I dont participate in or condone age or senior citizen discrimination.  I will issue proper complaints to the appropriate senior citizen resources. I would walk out and I wouldnt go back. In fact if I knew what town you are in ID be on the landline if it was determined he was not bothering others  than just bad singing.

If there is one or more singers in your crowd that feel as I do this could snowball into a bad effect on your business. Been there done that.

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Wow...I really feel for you on this.  It's too bad you couldn't have talked to this guy before the jerk talked to him or maybe even get to run into him in the very near future, just to let him know it was NOT your doing and that he is welcome at you shows!  Darn it, this whole situation just sucks.......hang in there.  Hopefully, you were not giving a bad rep, even though you did NOTHING wrong!  MrD

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as I read your post on how they got rid of this guy and how cruel and harsh the words that they used were I was fighting back the tears.

This poor fellow found joy in his short 9 minutes of fame when he sang those songs and I imagine his whole day revolved around the excitement of being able to sing for himself and others. What if that was his only joy in life?

All I can say is this fellow was totally harmless and I'm willing to bet that he never ran off any customers with his 3 songs. Instead he made a few folks working at the bar uncomfortable or embarrassed for him and they wanted him outta there.  

Life can be so unfair sometimes.

I betcha not one of them never even considered his side of the situation. It was all about what they wanted.  


 :shock:

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I agree with you on this - they felt 'embarassed.' Well too darn bad. And now, here is old crotchety coming down from her high perch here and saying this: It is this youth movement of entitlement. They believe they are entited to have what they want, where they want it, how they want it, with no consideration for others....Tranlsates to everything.

Old Krotchety Karen (Must be Friday....after a helluva workweek)

I lost my first regular show due to the owner deciding that she wasnt gaining more customers due to a couple of lesbians who liked to come to my show. the owner said something to one of them and POOF suddenly 90% of my regulars stopped showing up..and NO locals replaced them..it is not really a suprise . another bad choice in her long line of them. with different management it could have been a great bar great show, but it was not. I dont regret loosing the show, but also dont regret having done it for 6 months.

    I hope that your results are not as drastic as mine were!

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

Had something similar, but worse.  I have scaled back from the place I KJ at.  used to do 3 shows a week. Too much in trying to keep a fulltime job. And the place is an hour drive from home.  I cut back to 2 nights.  Then I had a chance to do Sat. nights in my home town at a local civic club.

Had been there about a month when one of my regulars ( and good friend) and her boyfriend from the out of town club came up to see me.  They are black.  Within 20 min. half the place emptied.  One of the "officers" told me next time to "let him know ahead of time."  I asked, "What the hell are you gonna do? hang a sign out front?"  That night when I packed up I told them I wouldn't be back.  If I knew they had that type of ancient attitude, I wouldn't have started in the first place.

Now down to just doing one night a week.  Have recently bought a house and need the xtra time off for remodeling.

Also won't work for a bar that decides who sings and who doesn't just because they sound bad.  At my main club we have a young man of about 35 who is basically "retarded" if I may use that word.  He reads very well; but everything is monotone.  No singing.  When he finishes a song, everyone claps.

Kelly

I don't really think that anyone should get all misty eyed about this old guy.  It sounds as if he just wanted to be part of something.  The problem was that he was trying to be part of the wrong thing.  The guy would have been a perfect fit at one of my shows.  He wasn't thrown into a snowbank and left for dead, just asked to leave a karaoke bar.

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Okay, who took my pants?

I've never been to karaoke before, but I am very familiar with older people.
Maybe he wasn't thrown into a snowbank or left for dead, but the result emotionally may have (who knows?) been equally as devastating. JMO.

I'm trying to understand what the $(#& is wrong with this idiot bar management.. He pays for his soft drinks, he even orders appetizers, SO, he sings older standards that some today don't like.. BUT, how about the "crap" today that some of US old farts that like to sing, Gordon Lightfoot, JT, Jimmy Buffet, and good ballad from the 60's and 70's like (You know THE DEPRESSING STUFF), any ballad by standards of some of the younger group today is depressing, how about Seal ?  BUT,  How about tolerance ?  Is Karaoke now some elitist activity that discriminates against genres of music ?  I CAN NOT believe bar OWNERSHIP would want this guy 86'd.. WHY would they ?  He's a paying customer singing ballads.. Does he need to be good ?  I thought that didn't matter... "IT'S JUST KARAOKE"...This is the problem I have with some of the attitudes... It's always "Just Karaoke" as long as the person saying It's just Karaoke is satisfied.. Now you know how we middle-aged folks feel about going to a bar where every girl is screeching thru an abominable version off-key of that Kelly Clarkson song "  How about if somebody came to visit a friend but they sang "Country",  would that venue not want them to sing because it's depressing ?  Seriously, this guy isn't sponging freebies, he comes he eats and he waits to sing, he enjoys it... Suddenly I see the change in the "Just Karaoke" crowd yet again.. Is Karaoke FOR EVERYBODY to sing :for a reasonable duration of time: or is it not ?  Is Karaoke to involve a tolerant listening audience or isn't it because quite honestly MANY of us think what MANY of the younger kids sing today is CRAP, and we don't like hearing it because it lacks melodic content, and also is hacked to shreds, what is more depressing then some girl who can't keep tempo, or pitch-match screaming "A moment like this" screeching it LOUD... Or the rap version of "Killing me softly" done 6 times per night by different girls..

Seriously, the guy isn't the problem here..  Sure, a bar is a place of business but HOW the heck can a decent atmosphere be killed by a kind elderly man having his moments under the spotlight which amounts to only several moments of any other given persons time at that lounge.. This guy seriously isn't the problem..  That management, as well as the bars patrons have a thing or two to learn..  Unlike the others assuming I were the entertainer, I would try to stay on this guys side and make it fun... Maybe an introduction, and a few words,  "Remember people Karaoke is fun for ALL ages, and all genres, or just PRETEND that YOU like the songs because it reminds you of your grandfathers singing".. Try to turn it into something positive because quite frankly the bulk of this venue are in the wrong..Granted it's business but that is JUST too elitist and wrong considering alot of the garbage I'm sure the younger crowd likes..


JMHO..

This is a pathetic example of how MANY that say "Karaoke is for fun" are still affected by the fact that MUSIC is MUSIC, and it does affect our mood, and seldom is it ever JUST Karaoke.. But I won't go there..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

(Karen my apologies, I stand corrected, for some reason I misread this as being your topic)

Kappy<---- old and can't focus well


JReynolds,  I'd also talk to the bar management, and barbacks/tenders and NOT really agree with them on this assuming it's merely his SONG CHOICE, and demeoner they don't like.. IF he's a nice harmless elderly person people MUST have some respect and understanding that this is THEIR problem and not his.. Karaoke should be fun for ALL ages, all locations, and requires ALL at times to grin and bare it !

What this is is discrimination.  Seriously, it takes many forms and shapes but it's a great example of what's wrong with our country !   THe general mood of how we throw away what we don't like including our elders !

Personally, what I'd do ?  Assuming I could find a place that had that type singing, I'd go and sing myself !  In time the place would end up with a decent sounding crowd..  (Excluding myself and this other guy of course)

There's something really sickeningly ironic when a Karaoke venue that makes it's money off've selling a major hypnotic depressant substance, wants to 86 a well behaved sober man that spends money because he's singing what in their judgement are depressing songs..
IT'S SICKENING !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

ADDED IN:


No, I have a better idea as to what I'd do..  I'd shuttle a little bus from an elderly facility friday night, peak time, and get a group of about 20 octagenerians singing "Oh My Papa",  and "Green Green grass of Home", etc. at this place !  Get rid of the younger riff-raff

Hey Ollie !   Now's your time to show these bratty kids a thing or two, this lounge can use you !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I for one got "misty eyed" because people can be so cruel sometimes to older folks.

For whatever reason this story rocked me at the core, and brought up deep feelings inside about how society treats and views it's senior citizen population. My wife is a RN and works with mostly seniors and I hear stories like this all the time.

This man had every right to continue to sing there and they had no grounds other than their discomfort for asking him to go away. This guy was not harming a fly. Just as soon as the music does not fit what the bartender or other customers perceive as what they want to hear, then they feel that they can oust someone like this man because they have a problem with it. Well it's wrong.

Not sure if it's discrimination but sure feels that way.


As for the crowd leaving because 2 black people walk in the bar.....OMG! Does that still happen in this country?  :shock:  guess it does...Well I would have done exactly the same thing you did Kelley! My hat is off to you young lady

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I agree fully with Flipper! Karaoke is for fun. Since when is there a requirement to be good? They picked this guy out because he is older, shame on them. It was stated he was a nice man, never bothered anyone, ordered food and drinks while he was there and only sang three songs. How about just turning up the music and turning down his vocals - a lot less cruel!

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Ok, glad I'm not the only one who got misty-eyed. I think those of us who feel thisway, and are really jarred by this kind of activity, have a vision of what it is we're supposed to be doing by running these shows. It is NOT a popularity contest, as it tends to be in some places. It is a release. It is a known fact that singing brings about huge endorphin releases in our bodies.  The more I think about this, the more angry I get about what they did to him. I will NEVER, EVER let that happen at one of my shows...I will also walk out and never return if mgmt ever takes it on to turn someone away. What the heck is happening to this country????

I LOVE the idea of a shuttle bus from the nearest adult family home(s) - bring 'em all in, let them sing to their heart's content...I think some of these youngsters maybe have never been close to their grandparents, or had any older adults in their lives.  Hey, we'll all be there someday.  

K

Sure the old guy may not have "fit in" with the ideal of the bar owners, and may have been a bad singer.

That does not change the fact that it was obviously an important part of his life and a pattern.

The fact that he was old, alone and probably retired just made it a lot worse, it may have been the big thing in his life that he looked forward to each night/day.

My experience is that whenever one discourages someone from attending a bar inevetably it ends up driving others away as well. I can think of more than a few people who have stopped going to bars because they felt unwelcome and ended up taking a lot of their friends with them, often including a bunch of connections that I did not see in advance.

I think that the only reason to discourage someone from being at a bar is if they are a safety threat to those around them, ie the violent drunks. Or the excessivley crude drunks who offend people by going beyond the limits of normal foul language and enter into the realm of sexual/or racial/or gender harrassment.
The other person who may be unwelcome is the bum who never buys anything but tries to bum drinks or cash from everyone in the bar few of whom know them at all.

I had an experience with two close friends, one who managed a cofee shop, and another who was a regular who spent a lot of time in the shop, but bought very little. Eventually she got the "you are unwelcome" talk. Hearing the same experience from both sides showed how it hurt both people even though the reasons were completely different. It was stressfull and sad to both of them. I still am friends with both of them and go out and talk to both women regularly. I just feel the dislike when they see each other even though they both consider me a mutual friend.

that's just WRONG, weed! The man has feelings. I honestly feel sorry for your customers that you should pick and choose who gets to stay and who goes, or at least you feel the bar is right in this!

The man was a human being with feelings, and these idiots trompled all over him.

To me, that's NOT what karaoke hosting is all about. Sure I've heard some clunkers. Sure I've felt that some folks shouldn't come to a venue... but I've never once voiced it. Some of my best friends are some of the WORST karaoke singers... but they do it because it brings them joy, and they in turn bring a lot of joy to the venue. Sure they croak out some notes, or sing songs nobody else likes but them... but they're a joy to be around, because they felt kinship and fellowship with their fellow karaokers.

I just think anybody that would ask this gentleman to leave is a sad individual.

Look, bottomline...

  35 year old stunning blonde get's up on stage and sings Janis Ian, and Carly Simon songs...  How many are going to call her depressing ?   They'll LOVE it when SHE gets up..

  This is how superficial the whole thing is..  It's also an indication of how few have tolerance for what's older, frail, and different..  They don't want to see it in their fun environment... It's wrong..  The guys done nothing wrong, the KJ has these songs in his selection too ! and this individual as a bar patron is amply supporting that venue.   Why should they not want him in the bar ?  Because his song choice ?   No...  It's because of their intolerance, and I believe the KJ should ATTEMPT to turn this around... This is where the good entertainer can really pull stuff together...  IF a decent entertainer can't pull this together, and mix things like this into the show.. The venue is hardly a place I'd wish to work at to be honest... Who else don't those "managers and patrons" want in THEIR little nest ?   I can't believe bar owner mentality would ever favor getting rid of such a guy unless there's more we don't know...

But THIS stuck in my mind...  "He pays for his drinks, gets appetizers, and he even gets there EARLY just waiting to be able to sing"

How dispassionate can people be ?  For all you know, the guy could've just lost his wife, and just about every penny he has, and have been diagnosed terminally ill...
Got to love the way Western society treats it's elders, eh ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think Weed is being facetious Matt.  I think he's coming from the same place we are.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I used to hang out at a place like that....they couldn't get me to leave, and I only had 2 songs in my bag a tricks.......God's gonna destroy that bar , and everyone in it.......just like he did Saddam and Gonorrhea......and yall got it commin'.....

No, really I was dead serious.  The guy just didn't belong at tha sort of show.  As I said, he belonged at a show the like of which I used to run.  But, I used to run the good singers out because they weren't any fun.  This guy just needed to find the right place and he probably did.  Heck, I've been tossed out of bars for looking in the wrong direction and for being too quite among other interesting reasons.  He will get over it.  He will probably not darken that doorstep again but he will get over it.

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Okay, who took my pants?