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No, I believe many are willing to offer critique in PM..  My discussion regarding showcase was quite different...


Cathi et al,  What I'm noticing is that I am and always have been attempting to "fight" comfort range, and instead push into higher Tenor range (billy, I think this is what you were mentioning to me with the Easy to Be hard).. When I listen, I'm torn between not hearing me, but sort've a fuzzy concept of how the original singer sounded so real and desire somehow don't enable me to hear ME...  I can't explain this..... It's weird.. Assuming it's tolerable for me to listen to at all (my own recording), I have a tough time hearing my natural voice and comfort range as where I belong.. I have some desire to wish to inch into where I would like to be.. SO, I need help with song selection because It's somewhat obvious that Boston, and the Scorps are out've my range currently ..Damn did I struggle with "More than a feeling",  I'm glad I gave it up... I went into the showcase and heard Jee's version, and was impressed, it's a TOUGH song... (as you stated Lena)

Chuck, I haven't forgotten to listen, it's been a crazy day thus-far, will do it first thing after food, and trying to sell leg on Ebay

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

When you're "attempting to fight your comfort range" you're essentially burning a bridge to a natural stepping stone to be able to reach that higher tenor range you wish to achieve.  In other words you must first gain a comfortable footing before you can work on something you deem to be out of reach.

A perfect example is sports training.  If you're just getting into biking do you hop on and go riding at full speed for 10 miles without stopping?  Of course not, your body and muscles need conditioning to achieve that goal or otherwise you'll risk serious injury.  The same goes for singing; your vocal chords need conditioning and practice to be capable of reaching higher goals and yes, you can cause damage to your throat/vocal chords if you come out full on balls to the wall wailin' that can take weeks to recover.  Then you're back to Square One.


Many singers, myself included, have a VERY hard time listening to their own recordings.  I personally can't stand the sound of my own voice but I'll MAKE myself listen and most times I'll say, "Hey, that was a LOT better than I originally thought".  I am literally my own worst critic and am much harder on myself than anyone else could even think of being (Vicki can attest to that, she's heard me b1tch moan and groan about my performances I dunno how many times) because I can pick apart EVERY single thing I did wrong.


This is exactly the way you should be thinking Steven.  Hate to sound cliche but Rome wasn't built in a day.

Patience is a hard thing to learn but it's very worthwhile when it all starts making sense.  You're getting there slowly but surely and that's the best way  :hug:

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[shadow=white][scroll]Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.....It's about learning to dance in the rain[/scroll][/shadow]

This makes total sense !  How can I go into a different range, if I haven't esablished a range yet ..



Actors go thru this too Cathi, but this was my concern..  It seems some that (at least to me) sound abominable seem to like listening to themselves so I ONLY have been able to assume that what I'm hearing IS real,  and others have told me "That doesn't sound too good",  but what I'd always done was contrived, pushed into edge falsetto thinking that's "Rock Tenor"... I really never had a clue.. But I also never heard myself via digital means before either... and still haven't heard myself using a mixer and actual microphone.. with some reverberation and EQ'ing..

Do you think Simon and Garfunkle material might be a reasonable next attempt ?  Just wondering since I don't know.



Understood.  I'm in no hurry.  I just wanted to know if there was any foundation that can be built upon..  I never learned how to use vocal chords to sing, nor was I able to hear myself if and when I was singing, If I thought I was singing Scorpions, I expected to hear Clause Meine during tape playback (while falsettoing the part) and WOW.. was that a letdown.   I think trying so hard to fight what I have to work with, and such determination to transform my voice into those I envy really messed me up..

Thank you !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Clause Meine used to do the coolest vocals like in Dark Lady.


BTW - He sand in his head voice.

Sorry Vic, sent you a PM. Congrats on quitting ciggies.

Winds Of Change is Gorgeous, and as much as I love that song,  it's a struggle for me up in that range,  and I think most would agree that I should NOT go there yet

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Absolutely. Work from the most comfortable spot in your range and go from there. Working on your lower range can actually improve your higher range.

It would be a good idea to do vocal warm-ups before you sing. That is a good time to practice your posture and resonance so it will take less effort while you're singing. Warm-ups are also important to keep you from over working your muscles. You don't want to pull a hammy when singing Glen Campbell.

Thank you Chuck !

Chuck, as we warm up, does singing register tend to raise ?  Or does it tend to fall more into an area that's genuinely OUR OWN singing register ? (I just reread my question, logically the answer might even be both)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I cant state this enough.  I'm having an AMAZINGLY brutal time hearing myself, as I MIGHT sound to others   With some degree of objectivity !  I've yet to try to tackle something where "Self help" is so elusively difficult due either to physiology, or perhaps just psychology. I wish I knew of a decent "pop" style instructor within a reasonable radius of where I live.. Finding a decent instructor isn't easy.. I know this because I have been a music instructor

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Holy Xit !

  Jian and Cathi,  I hooked decent closed cup headphones up to the front jack of my computer and I'm listening with headphones now, it's sounds VERY VERY different. Cathi,  I see what you are saying now with the timbre and quality and depth of "There is Love" in the wedding song.  I couldn't hear that thru the computer speakers... ALL this stuff sounds different thru headphones  :shock:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Major different...

If you mix for desktop speakers, it will sound good in headphones, but not necessarily the other way around I have found.

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Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge is limited.

Imagination encircles the world...

That's what I'm noticing Murlinman.  The speakers add their own characteristics to the recording, and since preamped it's a different balance.. I'm still trying to figure this out. The headphones give a truer representation of what the result will be.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

So today was one of those logy days. I woke up on the wrong side of the computer chair, sang for about an hour and a half early today before I started to realize I really wasn't going to get anywhere.. Low energy, tired, headachy... So I realized what I'm sure many of you have realized for years... We aren't going to be able to do this EVERY day.   Anyway.... Tomorrows another day, NICEST thing about the headphone setup is that I don't have to worry as much about the neighbors weird sleep hours... Can you believe they sleep at 3AM ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

steven not putting u down but if i had all that going on in my head as i was singing i could make a sound...just relax and sing, have fun with it....and personally i think u have a lot to build on, love the tone in ur voice....now if u didn't have that i wouldn't be re-thinking ur singing, not that u couldn't sing but to me without a good tone in ur voice be it natural r self made, u don't have a lot to work with....if u have tone the rest is easy.....i think ur over thinking, just belt it out....no one has to hear it but you...unless ur really using ur voice how can u sing? and if ur so timid singing how can u control it.?  JMO

The reason and the only reason why you need to use a set of headphone while recording is to prevent bleeding of the monitor sound back to the mic. When mixing the recorded tracks a nice pair of speaker monitor  is anytime better than the headphone.

If you look at some of the video clip of recording artists in the studio will will see that when they face the LD condenser mic they will always have the headphone on. but when they are at the mixing room ( normally very near to a large format mixing board) they don't have the headphone on... and for a good reason.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Thank You Billy.  You are correct.  RAVEN, and others have said the very same thing.. meaning, Just SING.. and don't analyze..    It does make sense.   Appreciate the advice !  The results of what I've attempted has also proven that what you say is absolutely correct..  I might as well enjoy this, and not think it to death like I tend to do with everything !


As I'd mentioned to you,  I'm really looking forward to this process..  I'm at an advantage because prior to late last week, I never thought THIS would even be possible, so I'm quite happy, and looking forwards to doing this !

This is one of those things where I ask for advice, and when I get it I apply it, I don't question it..  As I stated,  this is VERY new, I know nothing, have no preconceived concepts as to how to do this, (because I never thought I could), so now it's a fresh start,  I like the fact that I can be new at this, and take advice that's beneficial to me... and I'll pull this off !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Billy,

   How do the softer ballad vocalists do this ?  Are they belting too ?  or should I stay away from the softer ballads where I'd be singing at lower volume for starters ?

When you sing a softer ballad,  do you still belt ?   I'm just wondering about dynamics for the softer more mellow stuff..

IOW,  Groups like Bread, America, ballad singers such as JT, Buffet, etc.. Should I wait on the mellower stuff and focus on moderate volume songs in my general comfort range ?  Just wondering for starters, what it's best to stay away from... I've decided to wait on the falsetto, but should I also try to stay out've the higher headvoice area or songs that would put me in that weak area such as the :Easy to be hard: type song situation I got into ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

u just have to sing with confidence, no backing away...u still have to give it all u got, but no it's not so much belting it out as it is singing with confidence on ballads, and if u don't u can tell the difference...

personally i think u can learn more from ballads than faster songs,  most find them harder....but i think they'e not really harder as they just leave u more open, a person can hear more of you....but then again so can you, making it easier to hear mistakes, and the good things that u do....JMO

OK,  Thanks !

I need to start saying I am a singer, rather than "I can't sing"...  (sorry Jian, but I'm going to have to give up our competition )




Billy,  I think in my case I can pull off the slower ballads because I'm really into many of them !   Those are what I'd likely be able to pour more feeling into, more emotion, and as a result I believe they'll feel more natural perhaps even countering the mistake factor but either way I'm not worried about making mistakes. It'll happen and I'll survive.. ALL I was really worried about was singing timbre, and if that's doable as you people tell me it is, EVERYTHING else is too in time !   As you stated, ALL I wanted to know is whether or not I have a foundation to build on... So there are no other worries..

I'll be honest,  I'm pleased with my progress so-far.  I also realize the learning process is going to take practice, confidence, work, and not all accomplishments after the initial point can be expected to be leaps and bounds so as long as I am able to sing... I don't have ANY other expectations.. What happens will happen, I think I MUST STOP saying "I can't sing"..  That was the past..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That is a good start..

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott