Karaoke Forums

Ya...since I posted that I just wanted to do it for fun, now I feel like I got to start subbing back under C because people think I wimped out...

I got no truck with anyone saying what they want about my singing.

I just thought people's time would be better served if they analyzed someone who wanted that...

Like Suzanne says...I am just here to be amongst people I have something in common with.  And that is love for music.

It is perfectly acceptable for people to be serious about their craft.

I just don't want to be, but that does not mean I can't handle the the Critz of the Simon Caldwells in here either

Heck ...I like being a part of something...

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Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge is limited.

Imagination encircles the world...

Here's my (honest) thoughts though:

You HAVE a "seperation" in there. There is JFF... and there is C category. Sure, on the same page, but they have their own categories.

If they truly STAYED seperated, then everything would be fine I'm sure. But they don't. On rare occasion, you get people babbling critiques on JFF subs, and that should not happen. More often, you get fluffing on C subs. Maybe it's just my opinion & personal taste, but there are some really bad C songs in there getting 10's on a regular basis.

But back on subject... IF you make a "whole new area" for "serious singers".... don't you think the same thing will happen as what's happening in C category? I mean, people claim to want true critiques, but you too often don't see it. WHO is going to say "you may sub here, but you may not"??  The C people will all move over there, and it will be the same thing... just in a new area. You can't simply say "this is for serious aspiring vocalists only" and expect the line to be drawn.
Aint gonna happen.  :no:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

And don't get me wrong..... I sub JFF.
Gosh knows I make a gazillion vocal errors every dayum time I put my mouth in front of a mic.
I'd love to hear honest opinions. I mean, really, I'd take what some of you say is "rude". Someone saying "this isn't your type of song, it doesn't fit you very well" or "where the heck did your voice go on the chorus, you little idiot?" (okay, so perhaps that one would make me mad, muahaha)  or even "Charmin, take this down NOW before you embarass yourself by letting too many people here it" (umm... Don's said almost exactly that before, in private, Lol).... None of those things would hurt my feelings, rather would let me know some truth about songs I sub.

But it don't happen. I was fluffed, still am fluffed. (course, I sub JFF... so in a way people think that is asking for fluff only) But, flip side, I don't want people thinking I believe all I read, so I don't sub C for that reason.
I don't want to be bagged with all the fluffy people, nor do I want to be bagged with the C-Bytches either, who think they are perfect and dictate who deserves what;)

That's why I say.. to each his own. The only way to get around this, is someone create their own website, listen to subs of people, and dictate WHO may join their club. Otherwise, you get a mixed bag.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I agree with what you're saying and I hadn't thought of that, either.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone critiqued when they put "just for fun", but I sure have seen people get mad when they chose "critique" and got it.  I have people get mad at me for it, so I don't do it anymore. So then for a while there, I would say, "email me if you want critique", but guess what, NO ONE emailed me. Maybe one guy.  So obviously no one wants it, even if they choose that option.

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

I am one of those people who always sub JFF.  :)  Even so, I work very hard to produce a decent recording so that listeners can find at least a little enjoyment in one of my favorite hobbies  :D   No matter what someone subs a song under, whether it's JFF or C, there will be fluffy comments and positive/negative feedback.   Music is in the "ear" of the beholder and our comments will always be subjective...based on own concept of perfection, likes and dislikes...or who your friends are....  :beermates:  I like the site as it is, our choice of what to sing and whether or not we'd like professional feedback  

When I want people to critique my song I just sub it in SS under any category, but post a note in this thread so that people who come here will give me the critique, but post it here. This way it is more interactive. You cant do that in the comment box in SS.

That way it does not matter if the song is sub as L, JFF, or C; The people who are going to give the best input are those that post in this thread or similar thread in this forum.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I agree... That is a great idea.  :)  If people critique you here, then they are more likely to try to be more objective. Also, you are able to respond immediately to the feedback that's given....And the rest of us can watch & learn....  :oh yeah: Also, I know people here who ask to get critiques PM'd to them.... They prefer constructive criticism to be done privately.  It's great that we have choices...there'll never be a "perfect" singing site for everyone  LOL

You certainly CAN say "Serious Singers Critique thread" (or something comparable) with such an expectation.  JUST as you can say "KJ Forum" and "Tech forum" all else take it elsewhere or don't come to begin with. Meaning all are welcome, but if they can't take the "heat", they have other options.. I wouldn't call it "Aspiring vocalists however", but the forum type, or thread would have a description and it COULD and would work.. assuming KS wished to use the software to form it... If somebody comes in here saying "We don't want you critiquing in here"... who's going to listen assuming it's not mods or admin ? Assuming somebody see's Critique as it's existing and joins a setup already working and in existence it's not Impinging or disrupting a current established flow such as showcases when people now Critique in that area.. Besides,  who coming in here CAN object to what they've seen, it's ALL been positive !  Problem in the showcase isn't so much Critique, it started with exploitation via camouflaged bashing, impinging criticism where it's not wanted, and critique just isn't controllable in the current SS.  People don't even know what it really means. It's just a very different concept

The line is drawn based upon area description WHY a different area was formed (to begin with) and MODERATION.  We have moderators that understand and approve of "right to be Critiqued", we have members that made the trip HERE because WE understand Critique isn't wanted in Singers Showcase so we formed our own thread within "Singers Forum" with the understanding the purpose is for "Critiquing".. People making the additional trip make it with the understanding that it's recognised the Critique in their face isn't wanted in SS, so *we've* gone elsewhere.. Those that wish for more of the same have showcase. I don't think it's necessary that Critique  or serious musician/singers discussion be in the current SS individuals "faces" so-to-speak, basically that serves as putting a tissue paper protector barrier up between sides at war (of sorts)..

Singers Showcase is over there, if you don't like Critique------------------------->  


Here's the difference Charmin.. The numbers... Here the MAJORITY wish for Critique and based upon that, these areas can essentially self moderate, This is "Singers Forum" Critique.. Nobody has a right to go into a thread or specific topic area  going against the grain ANYMORE than you or I have a right to go into the Tech forum complaining that "It's too technical"..  Critique isn't a "sin", it's just not welcome among most in the Showase,  that's the way things are... So we've gone elsewhere.. NOBODY is going to follow us to rain on our parade assuming a special area with a purpose for critique is wanted..An actual Critique area MUST have an explanation of what the area means, (It's designed for a specific purpose), and similarly this is why I don't believe any here should March into the showcase trying to change it's atmosphere telling others that they can't have the Showcase as it currently is.. None of us are going to give up the option to Critique in here (just because a person or two realizes that they can't take it), of course given time that will happen, Most people when they see that critique isn't the stigmatized negative thing at all.. OR punishment by any stretch of the imagination, will welcome it,  because it's an EGO-less process where people go out've their way to HELP others improve....WE understand the process, we have some control over it in our own domain   The door to showcase will always be there for those that decide Critique isn't for them. But like the KJ Forum, Tech forum etc, there's a purpose  such areas were created because SOME are more serious than others... Same with Singing.. In  Showcase the Critiquers are the minority and thats understood..In making the extra trip here, people either have an interest in an aspect of the topic (such as those here from Showcase that are explaining their understandible concerns), or they are willing to see how it works... With the exception of discussion about the process, look at what those viewing this thread see.. There's no argument, no one-upping, mature folks trying to work something out for the benefit of all, and those ASKING for Critiques getting mature input ?  There's NOTHING objectionable.. Same with any aspect of a Critique category.. There are mods, or silent mods but it's a safe assumption that KS site mods approve of the Critique option... The question is how and where as things evolve,  as I stated, I believe showcase really should've been somewhat more careful with a Critique category,  you cant just throw that word up, and not expect some fall-out..

OK,  I think I edited this about 50 times, I'm exhausted,  g-nite all.  I've been going thru a serious singing phase myself and it's tiring,,,   but to me fun is being a GOOD singer.. and going thru the necessary steps..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Suzanne I am not picking at you but did you not just a few posts ago in this thread tell the world that it wasnt fair your rank was being marked down? Does that response not indicate that you, although you sub under C, you really only want criticism as long as you are still a 10...hon that doesnt make sense to me.
I am happy for folk to rank as they see fit while the rank thing is there.
It doesnt and shouldnt matter to me if  I am ranked less than someone else. There are more variables than first meet the eye.
The most important variable to me is that in the entire time I have subbed under C I have never objected to anyone critiquing me. So if that means folk feel comfortable about giving me a real opinion and a real rank, than I am happy to take it.
the second important variable to me is quite simply that I have never considered myself a 10.
Now if in my own opinion I am not a 10 why the hell should I expect anyone to give me a 10
the third thing for me is...no matter what, I still get booked and I still get paid....well cept for tonite when I had to pull the plug cos my voice was just too freakin bad to carry on

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

If anyone is so inclined, I have a sub up from last year that I would like a critique on. You can put as much or as little time into it as you wish. Just want to know what I should work on.

...and yes, I can handle the honesty.

Whoever takes the time to help me out I wish to thank you in advance. I think this can be another example of how this process works.

Just click the "Showcase" button below and go to Mack The Knife.

I doubt anyone would want to help me on the other song. That one needs too much work.

I would also like a critique on "Wake Up Call", please.

http://www.singersshowcase.com/song.php ... act2=59057

There were three things I was working on in particular with this song. (As per suggestions from my previous critique).

1. Supporting my tone with my midsection. (I watched Sister Act)
2. Relaxing
3. Resonance



Thank you very much for your time and help.

Through this forum, I’ve found critiquing is a no-win situation.  I had only one individual give me a critique pointing out areas that I could probably improve my performance and he would up getting ripped for it.  If I submit a song and ask for a critique – Please critique, you’re not going to hurt my feeling.

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Singing just for you

Hey again.

Not to make light of this thread or anything...but I'm sick of karaoke.....literally starting to just hate it. It's an affliction.

I hate live karaoke.....I hate listening to live karaoke singers.....I hate being a live karaoke singer.....I hate trying to please others at SS....I hate lying to others in SS....I hate laughing at people who are having fun....I hate giving people a reason to laugh at me.....etc...etc...etc...

Naaaaaah, just kiddin'.  LMAO

Seriously though, I think the name of SS should be changed to "Karaoke Contest".
There is no way that anyone can tell a person who likes to sing that they just aren't the best.
That would be the same as booing someone in a bar at live karaoke.
I went the other night. The line-up of singers was pretty small. I took a new cdg with me, but only had practiced a couple of songs, so naturally, those were the only 2 songs that I'd attempt.
Ironically, as I walked through the door, some dude was singing the same group's music, but the kj only had 3 songs in the books listed for that group, hence, the reason I buy my own cdgs.
When the dude finished the song, I told him....I just brought a cdg of that group....you're welcome to use it if you want to.

It's my turn....I use my cd....I did my thing....kj says...YOU ROCK! Even other people supposedly enjoyed. I sit back down blushing as usual.
Later, same group singer dude gets up and does a song from my cd.....I'm sitting with kj and her boyfriend....she turns her head our way and makes faces as he sings....I'm kind of embarrassed. Like what am I suppose to do? Bust out laughing at the singer?
No! You sit there and pretend you like it so you don't start a riot or cause someone to go home and commit suicide after being humiliated in public....well, only if they're a weak minded mental case to begin with.

I get up again, do another song from the same cd....people pretend to like it. I sit back down.
Other dude gets up, does another song from my cd.....I pretend to like it....all is jolly.

It's too much stress for me. I don't really know what I sound like in public. I know what I sound like in SS, and I AIN'T that good. So how could I possibly be better in a live situation?
I think too many people who sing live that get the thumbs up or some applause are misguided to believe that they know how to sing. Then they come here and get the same applause or pat on the back.
I guess my idea of karaoke is hearing a similar voice covering a song. Unless someone extraordinarily talented can use their own voice and create a better version of a song.
I get tired of hearing karaoke songs just stumbled through by someone who doesn't sound anything like the original singer. I loathe Rod Stewart now. He's singing everyone's and their Aunt's and Uncle's songs in his own voice....BARF!!

I hate MY OWN VOICE! If I can't atleast approach the sound of an original cover, I should never try to impose it on anyone! And OMG! I am so guilty of this in SS!!

I think everyone, I mean everyone in SS should take a step back and remember that....karaoke is for fun. It's not a way of life or a priority. Some people might just like YOUR particular voice, and enjoy hearing it occasionally on a well fitting song, but doesn't want to hear you blarring every song from the 50's to the present. Occasionally, you will be made fun of, so be prepared. Not everyone likes what you do!!
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just say.....Hi so & so....you know I love ya, but I just don't think you're right for that song. No details like....Dude....you're singing a hard rockin' song with a sissy falsetto voice....or.....hun, you really need to hear all of the flat spots in your performance, then try it again.

Just simple honesty you know. Probably in a discreet way would be even better.

I know I've just repeated alot of what's always said, but I felt like saying it myself.

Now, I have alot of songs to delete in SS.  LMAO  LMAO

That's not so.  I'm hearing it now.. Not verbatim, but it's a demand I've made of my friends regardless how it feels.. I MUST know what's up otherwise I'll NEVER be able to sing. For the :for fun: singer fluff is fine.. For those of us that DO value music, and WANT to be able to sing, and are unable to hear ourselves as we truly sound there's a VERY different concept going on..  There are MUCH worse things we will hear in our lifetime than "You currently don't sing that great"... We might wish to consider enjoying such a luxury because nobody in saying "That doesn't sound the best" is telling us to "Shut up" and stop... THere's a difference.. "Not sounding the best" doesn't mean noxious (well in some cases) ..

Look at the flipside, but you have to really THINK about the answer because people know when we don't sound good despite whether or not they are lying to us or not.. Do you WANT people to lie to you ?   There's no middle ground if you in fact ARE NOT the best..

"Critique" is ONLY for the person who wants to become a better singer AND knows whether or not he or she CAN in fact handle "Critique".. It's also OK to not be quite ready for actual "Critiquing".. The person ASKING for Critique, must know their own boundaries and limits, and if not STATE THEM.. The "JFF" singer DOES NOT belong in the critique category.. While it's a VERY positive beneficial process, it's NOT an easy process.. Improving in real IS NOT an easy process !


Similarly AS the person doing Critiquing it can be a humbling experience too, because SOME in here are very talented and DO in fact turn out some songs that
I must be honestly able to say..



This exceeds my ability level to critique..

Fact is.

1)  I'm nowhere near the best out there
2)  I have limited abilities
3)  Most that submit are considerably better than I am
4)  There's still room for ME among those that are better

This isn't a bad set of circumstances... it's all about

Where we ACTUALLY fit in.. and it helps if we are willing to learn, not being the best, doesn't mean people dislike us !  It's FACT.. There's some REAL talent in here.. and others have the option to be where they are and grow (assuming they dare to cope with the facts)..  It's all about "Do we want to be "singers", or do we just want to sing Karaoke" ?

I want to be a singer.. Which means I KNOW I might not be able to be.. From there I have two choices...

1)  Work and earn my true place
2)  Join singers showcase demand my "10" first, and only submit after getting my
    rank.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Vicki really put it well awhile back.. It's about "Perspective"


While I might only be a "3" rank singer,  that doesn't mean In life I don't have other abilites the 8 rank singers doesn't have, and while accomplishing singing might be my perceived battle, some that can sing are battling others problems.  It's best to accept WHO WE ARE, let others be who they are...and be decent people all around..None of us are "the best", and it doesn't take "the best" to critique others, but the whole process requires accepting we have limitations.  Those that need to be the best are going to have problems interrelating with others..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yep...I wasn't very tactful with that statement. Now I'm back here critiqing myself.
It's just that I see the listener's reactions to a particular singer or myself out at live karaoke, and it makes SS seem like fantasyland.
I mentioned before that I don't mind the fluffy comments in SS because I'm not asking to be critiqued, but at the same time, could I be harboring a bit of resentment in the fact that nobody would tell me if a song wasn't right for me?
As an attempted singer who practices before going out "live", it seems that I'm probably wanting to do a good job, and would submit my stuff in SS under the "C" in hopes of being told in what areas I need the most improvement.
The thing is, I critique myself. I "think" I know when my stuff isn't all that great. And if I'm continuing to practice a song over and over again with the same results afterwards, then I assume there isn't much I can do to make it sound better, so why "ask" for what I already know? An easy way for the ones who want critique to find this out on their own is just to listen, really listen to their own work a day or two later. If it sounds funky then, it probably is to everyone else. I don't even know why I leave 30 songs on the board all the time? I guess because I'm paying for it.  LOL

I really don't think there should be a "C" category here. The REAL serious singers should seek singing lessons and let a professional work with them on their shortcomings. That would save alot of heartache or bickering between the usually friendly people who just want to have an outlet for their need to be heard.
I have to admit, this stuff has been a fun way to meet cyberfriends, and I think alot of people would agree with that. No need to be totally critical in this arena with sensitivity being as high as it is in karaoke.
Who wants to be ranked as a number anyways?
Ain't that a Bob Seger song? I feel like a number?  LOL

Maybe some kind of anonymous critiquing could be an option here at SS? For everyone who submits a song, whether they want it or not, there's a professional listener, not associated with SS, who will privately consult with a singer if the total enjoyment factor is under a certain level? That way, it isn't left up to "cyberfriends" to bear the weight of honestly trying to help someone?

It's normal to feel uncomfortable when you know people aren't telling you the truth, AND it's normal to feel uncomfortable when you hear the truth !  Learning to sing whether with lessons in real, or learning ANY area of art takes work, and it's tough.. and when you are trying to sing and you are asking the best for honesty it's EASIEST if you ask others for honesty, prepare for it, and trust that they are telling you whats best for you without trashing you assuming they dare to be honest... First thing this involves is knowing our place... Some of us do.. We admit first and formost we have a tough time singing, and we WANT to be able to sing... In not trying to be something other than who we really are, (or being honest with ourselves) we can live with the fact that bombing and falling from a lower level is MUCH easier than getting up to a Simon level and getting knocked down from a higher place because those around you that dared to be honest allowed you to get there... I'll likely NEVER be the vocalist the top 25% in here are, and that's fine... I don't expect to be.. Even if I must write that on the back of my hand to remind myself.... Real Singing, and making REAL music IS NOT FANTASY...It took some of us MANY years, in my case being somewhat of a talented instrumentalist who fell onto his face out in the real world among others and the lifestyle (in terms of instrument playing)... but also in my case almost 1/2 century and I STILL can't sing... Why should what I hear in here be a tremendous blow to me hearing it now ?   There ARE amazingly talented singers in here that are willing to help.. Why make them feel they must lie to be helpful ?  I never had this type of oppt to get support from such a broad spectrum of talent that knows me... WHy should I blow it by being a total baby ?

Here's the thing.. SOME of us CAN learn to sing in here.. There are MORE instructors in here (given our locations and availability of instructors and talent in our given genre) than in most locations... There are more ears in here that can be helpful if we DARE to allow ourselves to be imperfect and say.."Hey, I'm having a tough time but I want to learn"... It's all about humility !  

Face it... Those that suck, that wish to sing, yet also wish to believe they are improving in fantasyland, are climbing wrungs of the latter only to fall further in the future.. If you suck, you suck... I'd rather hear it now as a beginner... believe me,  I'd rather get used to it at the start... Noone will tell you "you suck" to your face... They just smile and say it when you turn your back assuming you do suck..

Point being,  it's not easy knowing we're being lied to, and it's not easy when we are being told the truth... so which of these two conditions would you prefer ?

I NEED the second...  When someone one days says,  WOW, that was great.... I earned it, AND, so did those that enabled me to get to such a point... It's really not a negative process assuming people are mature enough to understand the reality that being decent at something is HARD WORK for most of us !  Do you want the gold star from the 50 cent box of walmart charity handouts ?   Or do you want "pretty good" rank that's honest ?  It's up to you...If people lie to me, I will likely miss my last chance at a guy in his 50's that REALLY wants to be able to sing.. Who needs an instructor ?  Look at the talent and friends we have in here.  We just need to be MATURE enough to deal with the learning process... and like the beginning boxer, perhaps taking a few blows to the ego but keep fighting to become a singer... It's hard work, it should be hard work... Just because something is fun... Doesn't mean those singing, are actually "singers"...  WHY can't this room have real singers trying to help aspiring singers that are mature enough to deal with the tough process ?  I don't understand...

Tantrum throwing IS NOT going to enable me to become a singer.

In brief Patrick, something CAN be fun, and hard as all hell too !  It's all how seriously we take it... Why does "Karaoke" need to mean there's no area for those that REALLY wish to be able to sing well to good backing ?  I don't understand.  Seems a sin to not allow those that wish to improve the oppt to do-so unimpeded.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

But I DO see how this process clashes with fantasyland !!

Perhaps there should be a "Singers" club.. People have to join.  Some can't handle seeing aspects of intensity in fantasyland..

There's a serious clashing process going on...almost seems as tho those that need "easy and light" are being thrust into blood and gore from fall-out if there's any aspect of Critiquing going on..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the above aside.  I have A friend in here who's perhaps the most amazing singer I've heard.  I'll never be able to sing like him, Currently I'm struggling to learn to sing... but he has his struggles too.. Currently he's recently quit smoking which is something I kicked 25 years ago...  This is life.. Who we are IS NOT entirely based on how well we can sing !  "Perspective", so someone tells you, "don't try that style of singing dude".... They are doing you a favor assuming they aren't just telling you that because they hate the style..

Another example,  in the (close to) 3 years I've been here Jian has been learning how to sing.. I'm sure in his opinion DISHONESTY is all he can say would be negative about the process.  He's correct.  While Jian is tougher than I am in terms of what he can take,  I try to learn from his character..  Some of us NEED honesty, and have a right to it !


What I'm going to say now I say strictly from MY OWN opinion.
In a MATURE setting, Karaoke Scene has given most all, the tools they need on most levels to make Singers Showcase work for all abilities.. Critique (for those who genuinely can handle being at either end of the process),  for those that want less intensity there's "Comments", similarly for those that wish for competition there's rank...  IF PEOPLE stated their actual needs there'd be no need to modify the showcase.. The system can work assuming people are mature enough to use it. The fact that Critique has been exploited, or some don't wish to see it IS NOT the fault of the system, nor is it :fact: that such conditions must exist as the oil and water mix

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Who's Patrick?

Well Steven, if People wanted to be critiqued, they would sub in that category.
Some's idea of humility could just be the fact that they aren't asking for critique.
I've seen new people show up in SS under "C" before, and after a few helpful hints, disappeared and never came back.
I even offered my unskilled advice to a girl once who had a wonderful voice. I just suggested that she reach higher for the notes in a song to really perfect it because she definitely had a sweet voice.....never seen her again.

And I've also witnessed baby tantrums in the JFF category because someone offered advice before.

This isn't about me man. I am not aspiring to be a star. If people wanna listen and comment to me in JFF, fine. Alot of people feel more comfortable "over there".
I guarantee if I'd submit a song under "C", the comments would go down 75%, because nobody wants to be totally honest.

I've just been considering going to "Listen Only" because I don't have time to be here as much as everyone else. People get offended also when they listen and comment to you, but you take forever to reply and listen and comment to them I think. That would free me up to listen and comment more to whoever I want to, and not feel guilty about leaving someone out, or missing a few days here.

Let the decent singers have their "critique".
Let the aspiring singers have their "critique".
Let the JFF people just have their fun.
And try to respect the motives of a singer who goes "Listen Only".

Sorry Perry... I'm getting old and soft

I agree Perry, the problem is exploitation of the system, NOT the system itself. It's people that aren't stating their needs OR respecting the needs of others !


(I graduated HS with a Patrick Cornell btw)... there's some method to my madness  :O

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".