Karaoke Forums

Okay, I went out last night doing 'homework.' Since I'm not working 5 nights a week anymore, I am using the time to look around at who is working and how they do their shows.  First stop was the place where hubby and I do a Monday night show - have been there for 2-1/2 years and always have a good turnout for Monday nights. It's a young place, great bartenders, dartboards, pool tables, free XBOX, good menu, etc. I go there last night (Sat) - I simply cannot believe that this show succeeds other than that people have NO PLACE ELSE TO GO to sing...no selection, guy doesn't know how to mix sound (singers sounded like they were singing through a kotex pad), mismatched speakers, and a pegboard with slips pinned all over it.... Frankly it was a joke....yet there are people there...<<scratching head in amazement>>  I have no idea if the owner knows of the contrast in the show styles. Don't know if/how I should approach him about it - I guess if they're making money, he doesn't really care, and like a lot of bar owners, would rather just keep things the way they are than try and effect a change of any kind.

So, next step is a tiny bar in a local 'steakhouse' that is a chain in this area. See a handmade sandwich board sign out on the street. I go in, there are 11 people in there. The host was singing when I walked in. I don't know him (this is a small town and I know most hosting companies) - he has nice equipment (a couple of 15" speakers and one sub), a nice monitor on a stand, mics appeared to be good, he appeared to know something about mixing based on the little I heard; a big screen above for lyrics, and presto, an 80,000 song harddrive. ARGGGGG.....I was tempted to introduce myself (I know some of the patrons recognized me, hard not to in a small town), comment on the quality of his equipment, and ask him about his library. Decided against doing that....He's probably doing the show for $50...and have to wonder if the bar made that the entire evening.

So in my frustration, I'm thinking, is there NO ONE in the RIAA, BMI, ASCAP, or any other professional organization, who is willing to commit one way or the other on this hard drive issue and either DECLARE IT ILLEGAL AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, or completely level the playing field and admit defeat about enforcement?

It seems like us legal providers are like the people who obey the 55 mph speed limit and who are continually eating a tremendous volume of dust kicked up by those traveling 75-80 miles an hour... who never get caught, and are willing to risk it.

I guess my wish for today is that there would be a spokesperson somewhere, sometime, somehow, who is willing to spearhead a movement to clean up the karaoke industry. Probably a wish that will go unanswered - now I have to go and meditate and get this huge monkey off my back before it drives me crazy.

K

I have tried numerous times to apply 60 years  experience with several professional vocations to this subject. However all the inexperienced here can not equate karaoke with sound business practices. As professionals we did not worry about the temp fixing tv's out of his garage In a professional manner we united and drove them out of business.

We did not rely on laws or lawsuits or courts or any other legal crap. We did it with sound professional business practices, honesty, and providing the best service possible.  A lazy man that wants to take shortcuts does compete with REAL pros. The customers know it and will pay for honest good service.

In our area we were never bothered with hard drives The bottom feeders didnt even want to go digital THEY ARE ALMOST NON-EXISTENT NOW. The savvy bar owners are looking for the KJ'S that produce. In a few weeks I will be back to $250 and more

During Katrina they lost billions in Iraq theyare losing billions They are inept and corrupt Esp RIAA and the rest And you really expect them to represent you or bail you out? They do not give a sh** about you they are nothing but greed

Expand your system make it better than anybody else Do PR and communicate with all concerned including bar owners and customers (singers and listeners) Compete and good old honest folks will support you GUARANTEED!!!

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Karen thanks for the post - I find it interesting to hear what other KJs are doing.
As for the 1st show you mentioned, I think a lot like you. I would think the best approach to it would be to talk to your regulars and ask them if they ever go to the Saturday night show there. Chances are they'll say no because they know the other guys show is subpar. It wouldn't be horrible of you to plant the seed with the patrons to say something to the owner.
 Have you ever told the owner you were available for Saturdays if the position ever opens up? Just a thought.

As for the second show - I don't think there is much you can do about that situation. I went to a show once where the KJ bragged about how he down loaded his songs for free from an illegal site. My fiancee couldn't understand my dismay. He didn't even understand why it is so distructive to the karaoke business. Aaaarg!! I think it will be a while before we can educate enough people about it to actually see a change.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Thanks for your comments, Babs. In fact, the Mon night bartender (who gave up his Sat shift because he didn't like the karaoke host), and the owner's daughter, who happened to come in a couple of weeks ago on a Monday night and was just blown away by our show, have spoken to the owner...I did indeed respond "yes" when asked if we were available for Saturday nights. I'm crossing my fingers that they'll follow through and "trow da bum out" and let us take over. I just KNOW that the people who are currently there on Sat nights will be thrilled, as will our regulars who keep on calling, e-mailing, text messaging, and physically accosting (SP?) us on sight regarding 'WHERE ARE YOU GUYS ON SATURDAY NIGHTS NOW???"  Funny thing was, all sorts of people saw me there on Sat. night - couldn't figure out why I was there. I fibbed, said I had had dinner with a g/f a few blocks away, she had to go home and I figured I'd just stop in for a drink since it was close! I actually sang and it was torturous singing on a bad system - I am SOOOO spoiled by our equip. And EVER so thankful that we chose the high road with pro attitude & equipment.

Oh great, now have to meditate again ... ....

K

When I was working I used to do "homework" too and if I came into a room with bad equipment and a nothing KJ runing from a probably illegal hard drive and yet the palce was packed, I knew that the crowd didn't come for karaoke.  People who do not come for karaoke do not care about the system, or the KJ and or his relative mixing skills.  But, they do buy a lot of drinks, more than serious singers.  My point being that while you may have had this guy beat in every catagory that you consider valuable to a karaoke show, he was probably beating you at the Z tape which is the only one a bar owner cares about.

As for someone spearheading a movement to get rid of the pirates, you have my full support

_________________
Okay, who took my pants?

Unfortuneately this exact setup and ineptitude you speak of is my only exposure to bar type karaoke in my area.  I know of nothing else, never been exposed to anything more..  Whoever mixes, has no ability regarding balancing for both the activity, and everybody else that needs to listen,  there's always (at some given point during a song) feedback starting up... clanking, poping, and given the caliber of vocalists it really was an excruciating exerience for those of us that are musicians, and need SOME quality in what we hear.  I've found the only time I like what I hear *around here* even in the past is when I do it myself..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Bar owners could care less about a "QUALITY" show UNLESS the custies start to leave. Illegal hardrives, lousy systems, hack KJ's----they could care less. They care only about butts in the seats and drink sales made.  They neither care or are interested in a "Professional" or "Quality" show.  They prefer the 50$ a night hacker on the house system if it means better to thier bottom line. Hence the industry is what it is today. To owners KJ's and their "Professional" shows are a dime a dozen. Always another that will do it a bit cheaper. Those that cant keep a crowd happyand the seats full will get the hook and be replaced.

There are two types of people going to Karaoke places---dedictated regular singers who are somewhat serious about it and will take note of lousy kj's, systems etc and the casual visitor who is there to play pool, darts, hang at the bar, play video poker or some other non-karaoke activitie and MIGHT get up and sing a tune or two.
They serious ones will follow an actual favorite KJ from place to place and be loyal for years. Kinda like a band following. This is not the majority of people going to bars or karaoke bars in general.

The dedicated people will get up and leave if it sucks. But the casuals will stay because they dont care and it doenst make a difference to them.

The majority of visitors dont know about and dont care about illegal hardrives, multi-riggers, lousy systems, lousy KJ's, dance music etc etc. They want their song and thats all they care about. They dont know the industry and dont want to know about it. Kj's are interchangable and disposable and it makes little difference to them from place to place.

Kinda blunt and maybe too direct, but it all comes down to butts in the seats. Do you keep the place full all night long with big-spenders or is it full of non-spending water drinking patrons. The ring of the tape will determine the KJ's fate. Its a business and nothing more. Low sales=loss of job. All the other issues are nice conversation topics but pretty much academic.

If the KJ is keeping the seats full, then they will get more KJ nights even at the expense of live entertainment nights. If not they will be replaced with someone else, or something else or it will simply be dropped never to be tried again.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I couldn't have said it any better SwingcatKurt. You are right-on with your view.  

I fully agree with you on the butts in the seat and the ring-out everynight.  There are still some KJ's around who do fabulous shows who fill those seats every night to the max and attract a 50/50 crowd - 50% who do nothing but drink and enjoy, and 50% who sing. That's sort of the kind of show we run. Here's an example: We worked Christmas night last year (It was a Monday, after all) - that evening the bar had a $3000 ringout, not including the $200 in tips that the bartender made that night. Not to say we do that every Monday (I know we don't) but we do get a lot of people in - Monday is NOT a good night for 99% of the people around, for sure, and it is only accidentally that they'll stumble in and "discover" us.

Not arguing on the fact at all that most attendees don't have a clue about the battle that is going on. There are some KJ's around here who will not play a burned copy of anything...there are others who don't even have the equip to play a disc someone brings in - so we run the whole extreme in this area. As long as the KJ has "I will Survive," "Friends in Low Places," "Pour some Sugar On Me," and "Dreams", most people just don't give-a-darn.

My 'rant' was just me swinging at the end of my rope after another major dosage of 'krappyoke' - and my tolerance for it appears to be getting worse and worse!  :roll:

Jumping on the "I also agree band wagon" !!!

Adding to Kurt's response, most singers today are new enough they don't remember quality systems & hosts & just accept what they see as the norm.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

SAD BUT TRUE ... and those who do remember, continue to wander until they find a good show...then stick to it. I LOVE those people....

Here-Here Lon.

As to loyalty---I have a few KJ's that I will drive DISTANCE to see--If Im up Seattle way for a weekender(Im In Portland) I alway make a point of trying to stay in Tacoma overnight so I can go see and sing with Lonnie. If Im in LA(Orange County) Ill make a point of dropping in at Manny Pachecho's show at the Starting Gate off Katella Ave, near Los Alamitos.

Around Portland Ill drive 45 mins(even with gas at $3.00)to go see my favorite long time guy--Dannny Chavez who is at the New Pheonix Casino in La Center, Wa(about 40 mins up I-5) once in a while. Other than that I might go see Flipper at his Monday night gig if Im out and about in his direction. There are a couple others that I might return to if Im out and about. Other than that, they are pretty much interchangable or disposable. And I would catagorize myself as a serious Karaokier--a connosiour of FINE KARAOKE so to speak. So I know what does and doesnt suck. I used to go hang at Matts show periodically before he moved back east. So a REALLY GOOD KJ can develope the loyal following.  But its a much more scare phenomenon than it once was for any of the above mentioned reasons.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Bar owners don't usually understand what a quality show is. I totally agree with that. When I took over my gig the preceding KJ had very subpar equipment. People loved him though, great personality.

When I started it was obvious the difference in quality. The bar owner would brag about my system to people. I loved that. He understands now, but it took actually seeing and hearing the difference. I know if I didn't bring in the people it wouldn't matter. It's all about the bottom dollar unfortunately.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

really bad karaoke is a lot of why I got into this. as a sound guy I loved karaoke, but hated the really bad sounding gear and people who dont know how to run it! one local actually uses a single 15 monitor on the floor for his whole speaker system!! I get stuck alternating weeks with him and it kills my show. my night is still always better but he hurts me bad. I will be droping that bar soon I think. I find that if im lucky I get 20% singers and about 80% listening to the music, playing pool , darts, games or just getting drunk at the bar. I use the fact that I WILL NOT LET THE 80% GET BORED OR SICK OF KARAOKE as a big selling point. if the karaoke sucks those people WILL leave. if its too loud they will leave too. More karaoke hosts around here hurt karaoke in general than help it.

  as for the illegal systems , it does suck. Ive got two systems, my first system is a Cavs jb-99 that my friend bought new from a major karaoke company pre loaded. about 50% of the systems around here use the same setup from the same place. I bought it when he bought a preloaded hard drive from i believe the same place.  he and another guy in town both bought hard drive systems at about the same time. my friend stayed busy and stayed in it. the other guy got too busy with his band playing sometimes 3 shows a week and sold his to me. people downloading off the internet end up with a bunch of crappy copies and if were lucky they will download a virus and wipe it all out. the creme will always rise.

_________________
the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas