Karaoke Forums

One thing that you didn't mention, is that even the same instrument can vary from individual to individual. Take a violin, for instance- would you expect a Yamaha violin to be able to produce the same tonal quality as a Stradavarius? Inevitably, there will be structure differences on such a minute scale that will greatly affect the tonal quality of an instrument.  As they say each person has unique vocal characteristics which are as unique as fingerprints; therefore on a macroscopic level, indinviuals may sound alike, but there will be variations from individual to individual.

Agreed, ALL instruments have their own unique tonal characteristics and personality  (which is why many of us DO NOT like purchasing instruments on the Internet HOWEVER that aside)..  You must take into consideration that depending on who is playing the Strad vs the decently made Yamaha matters too, similarly not 100% of the strads were fabulous sounding. For most the strad is overkill, it's knowing techique on a really nice sounding violin that we hear, secondly but only after the player is capable of getting decent sound we appreciate the tonal characteristics and mellowness achievable...  So in a sense, true... A singer can sound good if he knows how to use what he's got...  Let's assume I WAS in fact born with the vocal characteristics similar to what the Strad violin offered, yet I preferred a less refined mellow type sound and didn't LIKE the strad sound.. That too matters..  We must also realize that given 4 excellently crafted violins, MOST won't be able to discern the Stradavarious from the Copy.


Example..  I've heard head to heads where symphony clarinet players would play a Buffet made instrument, and than a metal 40's clarinet... I couldn't tell the difference in timbre,  they were able to work what they had !!  Another example,  I have a Bundy trumpet AND an actual Selmer trumpet.. When goofing around with Herb Alpert material, I like the timbre of the cheaper horn, I like the harsher quality for pop style..  Similarly I have both a Conn lady on the bell and Selmer Mk sax.. Selmer just doesn't cut it for certain styles, yet for jazz and blues it does IMHO... All depends... SImilarly I suppose if I learned how to use what I had, I might be able to do something however I just don't have a clue how to play the instrument I was born with given it's temperment, timbre, etc... It's not naturally suited for styles I love.

You brought up an excellent point however.  No two of us CAN sing exactly the same way.. We must learn to utilize what we have !  We all are different instruments.. Different registers, timbres, tonal characteristics, etc

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The other stuff you said about 'tone' is obviously true, but I'm going to have to disagree with you about the pitch thing. I have a good ear and there are times when I don't realize I've slightly blown a note until I hear the playback. If I have good monitors, it DOES help me stay on pitch.

I believe the main reason for that is that sometimes, although the vocals might be loud enough in the mix, the background music sometimes overwhelms the ear and you just can't hear yourself clearly enough. No doubt, that problem would be resolved with a really good recording atmosphere.

 :spin:  

yeah ok.. I think my head just exploded

All I know is that I can hear pretty easily if the pitch is off by a certain amount (like that pitch test Gilly posted for us one time - I remember that she, you - steven, and myself scored pretty high on it). I can't remember how close mine was, but you scored higher than I did if I remember.

I think we're looking at this from different perspectives - both being correct.  What I was refering to was the difference in what you sound like to yourself and what you sound like to someone else.  While your tone will sound different in your head than what you hear on a recording, it shouldn't affect how you hear pitch - whether you are on pitch or not.  

What you are talking about (I think) is that, if the music is up loud and you do not have a monitor, you are less likely to be able to hear yourself in your own head.  In which case, you do need to rely more on what comes out of the monitor.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

you know whats ironic is the effect known as "chorus" is created by a root note thast is layered by semitones that are delayed by a very quick fraction..in otherwords some singers prefer to have an effect put on them that is like a bunch of minutely flat or sharp "backup singers" singing with them..the "backup singers" are actually reproductions of the original sound. this effect is very popular with clean guitars and a lot of metal vocalists..most famous would be Ozzy Osbourne..that is precisely what makes his unique tone..if you could hear ozzy sing clean , you wouldnt know who it was..hey steven heres something youll dig..in my music theory class in college (i was a music major) a composer (cant remember who) assembled a full orchestra and assigned a different note to each instrument..the notes were in quarter/semi tones and he had them all sounded at the same time..withan oscilliscope measureing the true value of the combination of tones, it dtermined that the tone in the room collectively was a middle C..which as musicians know is the center of the music universe..weird how every tone you can make with an instrument, when sounded at once together creates one definitive note...i knew that would trip you out today steven...your welcome  hehehe..

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Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!

Yes... I'm sure that's it.

At least you didn't go into some kind of weird music hex code like Steven did.

Scary stuff that.

Yeah....none of that music hex code stuff ever really stuck or made sense to me!

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

That's very cool...

Actually, yeah.. I was going to say something about the fact that a pure straight tone, vocally, would sound rather odd. Most of the 'pleasant' sounding vocals consist of a certain amount of 'vibrato', whether very mild or very noticeable, and vibrato, of course, involves a 'swing' above and below the note to produce a fuller sound and what the ear hears (when done properly) is the middle note.

[highlight=cadetblue]Each semi-tone is broken down into 100 cents.  Meaning 100 incremental pitches between C to C#,   E to F,  etc...    Tuners need to develop pretty precise ability to hear slight incremental variances between semitones, but an excellent ear will drive a person tuning a piano crazy, I've done it Grrrrr.... You can't really tune by ear because a lot of compensation takes place... So the tuner tunes just by listening for beats, and slow-waves and ideally beatless unisons. Anyway, what I was asking..  Oh yeah

I'm just wondering HOW close to nailing a pitch, without straying from "the pitch" even a couple of cents a singer can reasonably get (3 or 4 cents waivering from pitch might be noticeable depending on volume timbre and duration), and of course the longer the pitch must remain held the tougher it gets to "nail" the pitch without straying (and I wonder how many cents in general is considered acceptable to vocalists in classical music).. I wonder if there're vocalists that have the discipline or control involved to Nail the pitch without fluctuating even 1 cent when holding a pitch for several measures.   Remember, each semi-tone is broken down into 100 increments before it's accurately considered a sharp, or flat (minor 2nd)[/highlight]

I did something once Kappy that you might find interesting. We had the piano tuner over and my Dad was asking pretty much what you were about the human voice- and the tuner said because a human voice is made of vibrations- the sound waves are always peaking then bottoming out within a single note..I think that range may be the cent thing you are talking about. The tuner even went so far as to say that he didn't believe a human voice could hold a single note cleanly enough for a piano tuning instrument to read it as on pitch- at ALL- not even for a single second.

Well ya KNOW THAT just tweeked my interest, So I picked up the tuner- and to be honest when I was singing a normal note- It DIDN'T show as "on pitch" on that tuner- but when I cut out the intonation and just hit an Oooooooooooooooh sound with absolutely NO vibration- I was able to do it for almost 10 seconds. It blew the piano tuners mind. So I think the answer is YES the human voice can sustain the note cleanly with no discernable variation- but to do it -the resulting sound isn't very pleasing, It sounds like the signal you get when the rainbow screen comes up when  network signs off. Ooooooooo  LMAO more like a mosquito! - not very pretty "singing" IMHO

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How does the voice differ from external instruments?  Easy...

You can practice it while you're driving.  

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I love being a mom!

yep!

now are you like me and stop singing when someone pulls up beside you or do you just keep on a singin'?  


mikey are you sayin' my ozzy doesn't really sound like that for real?  

I just keep singing and lem em laugh!

Oh it'a also different in that an instrument can't get sick- or have nodes( wink)

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I sing at work it adds to the annoyance of the dragon who tells me my raucous laugh and my cleavage lower the tone of the establishment  :whistle:  LMAO

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I at sing at work...welll because that what I DO at work

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kappys gonna be pissed that we have degenerated his very serious thread to this

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he shouldnt have left us alone then

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

WHERE is Kappy BTW....can't believe he hasn't reigned us in yet...wheres Charmin???She needs to be here for girls night out!  :hi5:  :dancin:

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Did somebody say "Kappy" ?

I'm here in case you don't recognise me.    Does this font make my buttocks appear too bulbous ?
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Sorry of my absence but I have a note from my mother.

It's been a busy past 24 hours so I had to hide under the bed for abit.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

well pleased to see the dust bunnies let you out for a bit

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."