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Paula hit on something that has always bothered me, her critique was this....

(oneofakind864's Comments:
Billy even from a dyed in thr wool R&B fan like me- you make me like whatever you are singing. I think you have a darn good grasp of what sounds good on your voice. The only thing I could remotely say that could possible help would be that- to me you sound completely different on each song- and you are a very good imitator of all these different artists that you cover. I would love to hear you get comfortable with a sound so that no matter what genre you were singing- I could tell that it was still "billy" But I won't lie- that is the hardest thing any artist ever learns...but in the meantime I am enjoying listening to you find yourself! You truly do qualify as "an artist")

now i have no problem with what she says, in fact it's always bothered me too...but i do feel different about it, for me anyway...

i honestly don't know how to sing an Elvis song and NOT sound like him...to me my voice is flavored with some of the same tones he had....now if you add a growl and make it a tad rougher u get Conway,  go lower soften ur voice and relax and you get Brook Benton and a few others...it's very, very hard for me not to sound somewhat like them...and i really don't know what MY voice sounds like....but i think it's a blend of all of the above....plus a few more....

to me you have within ur voice, HIGHS, LOWS, MEDS, SOFT, HARD. THIN. RASPY. ROUGH, and then you have varations of all of the above, just like you do colors....different shades...i take all of those and use them where i FEEL i want it in a song...in some conway songs i will drop very low just to get away from his sound r style...add another flavor to it,  that's how i sing, i don't really think about it as i'm singing but i'm kinda painting a picture with my voice, r the different voices i use within a song...

but i also will admit that i do sometimes copy a singer r singers, but for me thats not where the fun is....i just re-did a Bee Gee's song. HOW CAN YOU MEND A BROKEN HEART....no i don't sound like them...l..but i do get to use different sounds of my voice,

i also found out a long time ago ur voice doesn't have to sound so much like the artist as just getting some of their qurks in the song...like John Conlee goes up a tad on the end of alotta his words....that's his style....add that and it gives the illlusion that ur sounding more like him than u really are....

again....i do think my voice is a blend of alotta voices as i think most peoples r.....
and i also try to use the high's lows, soft, hard's etc. in any given song.....adds flavor...

i think i know my voice pretty well,  now if i can only find it....

sooooooo i agree with you Paula, yet i disagree....r maybe we're both wrong.......


Steven maybe what i was talking about with my voice will help you, the highs lows..soft, hard....i hope so....

ty again Paula

also....ll...i get really bored singing the same style the same way all the time...when i was in a group we played all styles, as much as i love blues r country, i would cry knowing i had to sing just that every night....i'll go away now

I think that I have the same prob Billy...when I am attracted to a song I am attracted to the whole package song, sing, arrangement. If there is more than one version of a song (as there were with the older ones) It is only natural that one would try to do it in the style one admires most.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

...I love this post topic Billy!

All I can say it that to an amateur singer is doesn't matter if you are "imitating" But when you have the kind of chops YOU do- it's a shame not to become a marketable entity on your own- instead of a good impersonator. I would never have made that particular comment to anyone who didn't sound like they were pro level...and you specifically said you were trying to "find" yourself vocally. Switching up is fun I know...heaven knows---I'm an R&B and Jazz singer but if you look at my song list I have a semi classical version of "How Great thou art"stuck in there( at least for a few more hours)  Is IS fun- for a "change"...but my "bread and butter" is the R&B and the Jazz. If I am correct in thinking that YOU are trying to find your bread & butter my advice is for you to do 2 things.

One-- "Gender benders" are a great way to force yourself to sing in "your" real voice- because you sure as heck can't sound like a girl. I subbed Earth Wind & Fires song "reasons" Phillip Bailey sings everything higher than most woman so it would have been easy to imitate him..but I wanted to lower it and make it sexy. That  gave me a completely different sound. I did the same thing with a Barry White Tune, Van morrison and George benson as well...I love gender benders! They keep me sharp.

Two- find a song you like and surf the  internet to find many different versions in several genres to listen to...take what you like from each and you'll be surprised at how "natural" the singing will feel. On My Sub of "feel the fire" I listened to the Teddy pendergrass, Stephanie Mills, and peabo bryson versions. What I subbed is the result.

I'll repeat there is nothing wrong with either switching things up...OR doing an impersonation...but for a serious vocalist who is considering "finding themselves" as you say you are trying to do- developing a sound that is uniquely YOU no matter what you sing- is imperative.Once you have- That's when you'll find that others start imitating YOU! The best case in point I have ever heard was when Pavarotti got sick before an awards show once- Aretha Franklin stepped in hours before the performance to take his place on national TV- singing the same song in what ever language it was- I expected to hear her doing an "opera" voice- because I could not imagine ANYONE doing and opera song with a non classical soul twist...She sounded just like she did on Natural woman- even in another language!! It brought the house down. It wasn't so much that she was as good or better at Pavarotti= it was that she stepped up to the plat at the last minute in a genre that was obviously NOT "her" comfort zone- and she did it without sacrificing that signature sound.

I agree that you can have highs lows- rough, smooth and everything in between..but you can do all of that and STILL have your own sound. Other than my "how great thou art sub" You can tell that all my songs are "me" and I have several genres from loud to soft...Vikki( morganLefey) has the same thing going on- she sounds like "herself" no matter WHAT she is singing and I've heard HER do everything from METAL to Irish folk songs...and she did them ALL well. There are several singer on here that have succeeded in finding ther niche across genres.  I would say that you singing anything without a little of a country twang would be a lie to your audience and yourself...but by the same token- I DO hear a very strong R&B influence on you as well. So to go completely country would also be denying something that I think is a big part of what you are. I still think you are a blues singer with a country sound. But whatever you sing- no one and nothing can take away the fact that you ARE a singer...and a VERY good one. I am enjoying your journey...and I really hope that you don't get offended by anything I say to you. I would never box you in---All I can offer is one teeny opinion of what I personally think you sound "best" doing. And that is worth about as much as the time it took me to write it. I'm gonna pull out a gender bender country song just for kicks and sub it...cuz no matter what i do- I don't sound "country" You just have to promise not to laugh too hard OK?

I'm wishing you all the best and giving a pat on the back for the thread topic.

Paula

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I think that Paula has given you a really huge compliment in her critique. She's basically saying you're a DANGED good singer, but she's trying to get you to go to 'the next level'. That spot where you go from 'really good' to GREAT. It's somewhere in the craft of developing one's own voice that can take them.. well if not to 'stardom', at least to a marketable product. She's raising the bar on you. You're certainly good enough for the likes of us. heheh

Wish I could give you suggestions on how to DO it. I've not gotten that far yet. Most of us never will.

Yay!!! I got it right!!!!  :dancin:  :dancin:  :dancin:

hi, no paula i'm glad u said what u said and felt...doesn't bother me at all...in fact i had rather u did...that's why i ask for being honest....to me this is fun....if u put me down r not it doesn't matter, i respect ur opinion.

i too love gender benders, i have done quite a few,
tanya tucker, lorie morgan. patsy cline,  few others...they all more r less come out sounded Conway-ish...i'm not trying it's just what comes out..i feel i find my voice on songs i have written and even then it's other voices....i know what ur saying and i agree butttt....ll...always a but...i don't feel i can be r want to be pinned down to just one sound...it's really hard to explain....and everything u say make sense yet, and i always thought i didn't really know what I sounded like, because i would sing a song and think that doesn't sound like me, and i liked that fact....but when i really went back listening i could tell that each song was me, and i have tried subbing on here under different nic. thinking no one would know it was me....wrongggg....ll...
but i do know what ur saying because elvis always sounded like elvis, no one else....
but to take away all the inflections i use in a song just so it won't sound like anyone else but me would suck....and ur gonna say nooooo use the inflections....just use ur own inflections....ur own way of singing a song....i believe i do now it's THEM that r copying me i think....ll....

personally i don't hear a twang, and that i know for sure....ok maybe a little bit....ll

truth is what voice i use depends alotttttt on the key....in 1 key it's a conway sounding voice drop it and u may get brook bention r someone else....then again u may still get conway....like i said it's really hard to explain....

yes i do want to find MY VOICE....saying that i meant, because i quit smoking my voice is changing alotttt, i'm not sure from day to day what i have to work with, but it's fun finding out....for a while i was getting depressed,  i really sucked...more so than normal....

i did what i wanted to with my singing there's no regrets at all, i had the chance to go as high as i wanted to....turned it down....and i have no regrets at all, i have more fun with karaoke than i did singing live...not near the rush but in the end i just had nothing left to give, so i got out...
i don't want to sound the same on every song, i'm happy and content with what i have but i truly do understand what ur saying....
for me and it's justttt me talking, it's really hard for a singer male/ female to keep my attention if every song sounds the same, and they sound the same singing it....
tha's whats wrong with country music now, they're turning them out way too fast....1 singer sounds just like the other one....i hear no passion in their voice, just singing....very rarely will i hear someone do something with a song that makes me go...omg i love what he/she did and where he/she took that song....a lotta times i'm more impressed with the singers on here than in the so called " PRO " world......
i've been in some great studio's they can cover up anything, on here its pretty much what u hear is what u get...raw talent more r less...that i like....

i'm just trying to get my voice under control....my range is getting better so i'm bound to use it, good r bad...l...i keep things, i throw out things....in the end i hope it's all ok....

look forward to hearing ur gender bender, i'm sure u sound great.....
that is 1 reason i do sing them so NOT to be compared with any other singer....sometimes  it works sometimes it doesn't...oh well...

cyber ty so much for ur comments, not sure i ever got to the next level but some thought i did, then i back slid....l...it was all about ME back then now it's just for fun.....but i do still like learning and lately i've been learning alot....got me really excited....

ty to both of you for ur help....Paula i'll sub a gender bender also so u can see what i'm talking about..... i'll sub my Reba

ty again ladies..........Billy

This is interesting........


        I've heard alot of talk at karaoke shows and such about "making it your own" and "injecting your own style" into a song, but I think no matter what, it's just kind of natural to follow along the path of the original, especially if it's a song that you have listened to for many years. Let's not forget, these are cover songs!!!  If your wanting to do something original, to expose your own specific style, then you need to write a song, or have someone else write it for you, and see where it takes you.

        The only way I can see trying to do something different, is in a case where your trying to do an acoustic cover of a hard rock song, or something along those lines. If you try to fly of the handle and add your own spin on a classic, the audience will almost always resent it, but there are exceptions i'm sure. I think a listening audience will almost always prefer a close copy of the original, or at least a reasonable facsimile, at least I know I do.  I don't think i'd want to hear Luther Vandross try to sing a Kansas song in his own specific style, even though he was a great singer...know what I mean?......ah well just my 2 cents...

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

I agree with you, Nathan.  I almost always try to inject at least a flavor of the original, though I don't try to totally imitate the original artist because I've heard that sound a bit cheesy on other songs.  I think it's okay to "make it your own" if you have another arrangement for a backing.  A good example of a recent song I recorded is Eva Cassidy's more folk arrangement of Cyndi Lauper's "Time After Time."  I've done that two entirely different ways vocally now.

Hey Debbie   .....And of course, if your doing a gender bender as was mentioned above, your kind of forced to do your own thing. I think that applies to the ladies for the most part though, not alot of guys try to do a song that was orginally done by a female, for the ladies it's a little easier I think...

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Yeah...that's true...I feel I have a little more freedom vocally on the gender sings because expectations are probably different on those.  I'd LOVE to hear more gender benders the other way...males doing female songs...would be interesting, me thinks!

Billy you and nathan both made points and to Nathan- I'll say a crowd doesn't care if it sounds like the original as long as it's sounds good...that why "covers" get covered over and over because each artist brings something new to the table. Oh Nathan I have  few Luther songs for ya (wink)

Billy I have always said "the only limit to what YOU can do...it the one YOU place on yourself" as long as you ate happy that SERIOUSLY- is all that matters. But bout that key chencge thing..THAT was what  was talking about. There are some singers that resonate with me the way that Conway and brook do with you...Phyllis Hyman, Diane Schuur, Gladys Knight,and peabo bryson to name the 4 biggest. There is nothing wrong with morphing what you like from each into something new. THAT can be as challenging as mastering all the different styles of different singers. But what ever makes you happy is fine.

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To me *as a cover musician* the MOST important aspect is how good of a chamelion can I be ?  How tastefully can I do "The song I'm currently doing given my ability".  Assuming the answer is I can do it well, and sound very different each time, to me that's a REAL GIFT !  Almost an unheard of gift but personally what more can a musician want ?  Billy isn't doing this at the expense of NOT making these songs his own, What he does *are* HIS own but completely differently styled and sung.. When he wishes, in some cases he can NAIL the cover too.. That to me is the sign of a brilliant musician given the quality of such versatility in styling and overall sound.  As they say in Long Island "It's to die for". Range, timbre, style, quality, is usually differ, we would seldom know it's Billy, but it's always very good... That's AMAZING !!!!   It's a gift !   and it's pretty rare.  WHY wish to ever sacrifice this ?

While the term chamelion sounds pretty cheap and weird to many, to me being a gifted musical chamelion is something I strive for;  Studio gigs, fill in gigs, and working musicians need to adapt to what's put on their plate.  Top 40 musicians need to be able to do this playing live, if EVERY guitar lick sounds like Mark Knopfler, how does this help on very different styles ?.. But given a choice of having a signature style, my own preference when performing is to be versatile, and sound different as long as what I sound like sounds decent.. Billy is amazingly versatile,  so much so it's tough to believe it's often him.. (and I should know,  I have posters  and autographs and albums of his plastered over every inch of my condo, but so don't we all).

Point being, I think Billy is amazing.. To me he's got a gift I wouldn't wish for him to change for anything... Because what he does differently, he does very well.. Best of all worlds IMHO..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

While you feel this way Paula, It wasn't that way at all when I did a tour with the Canadian based band "Liverpool" in the 1970's (well only three gigs), you had ONE option and that was to NAIL your part or you were out.  Do you think those of us that auditioned for the Blushing Brides (no, I was rejected but they were also Toronto based), and would've loved being with Beatlemania play for a crowd that "Doesn't care if it sounds like the original" ?  You MUST consider the type of musicianship and genre of music.  One can never make a blanket statement.

Go audition for the Philadelphia orchestra, and make Bach "your own".  You'll end up launched out've the studio faster than the Apollo space crafts peak speed.  Billy, this is my fear if how my voice sounds.  It doesn't sound like "Good rock vocals" I can identify with.. It's originally sucky, so I haven't a clue where to go with it, if anyplace. If it doesn't sound like arena rock vocals.. I'm TOTALLY lost.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Kappy...you didn't read what I said throughly...I said UNLESS you were an "impersonator" for a living- that a crowd likes good music. I wasn't speaking about the classical opera or symphony crowds( hey even I do as the romans when in THAT particular rome) But what I am saying is that for 17 years I have worked exclusively as a vocalist. I have done 1000's of gig in front of crowds of 80,000 to 80 I have sung **almost** every genre...And in all of those crowds, and MOST typical party going crowds(corporate, wedding, concert, private gig, etc)  not once did I ever hear anyone complain that I didn't sound like the person or band I was covering. I work as much as I do BECAUSE I don't sound like them. To me- if you are only aiming to be "as good" as someone else- then you are placing a set of limitation THEY had on yourself. You will never open yourself up to being "better" than the people you are covering. Now while there are some singers like Chaka Khan or jennifer Holliday that i could only "hope" to one day equal- there are MANY others who I won't name- lest I be accused of being a cocky egotistical beyotch. But while I look at them as unbelievable talents and they were wonderful "teachers" - I honestly do believe that I can bring something more to the table of the work they have done- and that they would approve of the changes.

Barbara Streisand looked at Judy Garland this way. Some say she is better others prefer Garland- but no one would deny either of them were 2 of the best singers ever. Yet Streisand made no attempt to sound like "Garland" What I was saying to Billy is that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SINGING COVERS-  LIKE THE ORIGINAL ARTIST-  But....no let me make that BUT!!! when you are as good as he IS- if he chooses- there IS another higher level he can move it to. A cover band is only gonna be a cover band- I don't care how much you SOUND like the beatles- or look like the Beatles- you will never BE the Beatles. And They were the sensation they were because they took it to the level I am talking about. They had their own sound and they became the people that OTHERS imitated. But to me- an impersonator is saying that they are only "AS" good- at BEST- as the singer they are covering...For some that is the best they can do... for the few elite singers - like Billy- they can be BETTER than the people they cover- if they want to work that hard. Also think of this...if you are a cover singer, singing like the original artist- there are also many out there doing the same thing who can fill your shoes- so to speak. If you do things your own way and develop your own sound-  then you can honestly say- there isn't another "me" out there. I make 4 to 5 times the going rate for a professional singer in my area because I DON'T sound like anyone else. I also don't do arrangements like the original artist if I can help it. Supply and demand. The more different I sound from everyone else- while still being marketable- the more potential clients I have. More times than I can count- a client has told me- Hey Paula can you come down on your price- there are 3 other girls here who are willing to work for 100 or 150! I told them that "you get what you pay for" and in all but 2 cases- they hired ME.

I used to work at a musical theatre where I had to sound like the original and I got so bored and burned out doing the same crap every night. When a theatre came to town that specializes in "impersonators" they came to our show and saw me- they offered me what - at the time was a VERY generous salary- to be a "Barbara Streisand" impersonator..but just the thought of singing the same 4 0r 5 songs like Barbara EVERY night made me want to pull my hair out...and then added 2 hours of cosmetic BS-I would have had to go through for them to make me physically resemble her---that would have been hell on earth. I quit my job- moved to Atlanta and started developing my own sound. It was the hardest thing I have ever done- and I STILL struggle with it- but it was also the most rewarding thing I have ever done. The only thing I have left to tackle creatively is to write and produce or collaborate with someone on original material- and That's in the works as we speak.

Billy - and may other on here who I have also had the same conversation with- have to potential to do literally anything they want to do. I was not criticizing him or them- I was giving them the HIGHEST compliment I could possibly give. What I said may be just one opinion- but I do know what I am talking about in this particular area. So I'll say it again...nothing wrong with being a cover singer OR an impersonator- but of you have the chops, the talent, the creativity, and most importantly the DRIVE to be more...why not go for it?

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paula i took it as u meant it...i understand what ur saying....
ty for the critique on my Reba song.....
now would u say THAT was MY voice?
to me it's just another of many voices, and better said a blend of voices...
normally i don't try to copy but sometimes i do, depends...a conway song i don't copy i don't have to copy that's more r less my voice, but so is what u heard on the reba song....i'll do a marty robbins song, kinda sounds like him, not really trying to it just does....again its reallyyyyyy hard to explain...

how do i sing a robbins r a conway r an elvis song and NOT sound something like them, because of each artist i just mentioned my voice has a lotta of the same things in it that therirs has....i guess i could do a robbins song sounding like conway...l..but it's really not conway, i feel it is me, i wish i could explain it....i do not go out of my way at all to sound like them it's just me.....

i'm going to sub a gospel song i just recorded, a Del Way sings it, my version is no where sounding like him, yet it is a blend of others voices and i guess mines in there somewhere too....l.....

i know reba didn't sound like reba...duh....ll...so who was that singing, WAS THAT MY REAL VOICE?  i really don't know....but i ty you and all of u for ur help, i really mean it....

steven ur such a sweet heart....kisssssssss.....GAGGGGGGGGG.....
ty so much my friend.....i'm not all that .....
steven record something let me hear u, just a tad.....
i've heard u talk so ur singing hasssssss to be better than that.....ll....kkkkk
kinda sorta

I know "you" understood what I was trying to say Billy..that last post was in response to Kappy

And to answer your question I think we're getting out lines crossed. You and I are mixing up "voice" with "style" You only have one voice and that is always going to sound like you- but you can alter your voice's style to imitate other peoples "styles" ..or you can create your own "style" - it's fine if that style is a mix of the other singers who you feel a connection with. What I was trying to explain - you find YOUR style- when you figure out what particular mix is most natural for you- Once you do that you will stop doing the little alterations that make you sound more like Conway, Brook---or whoever..and everything you do will be immediately identifiable as "you" But if you like those little inflections that mimic other singers  and it keeps singing fresh and interesting for you there is NOTHING wrong with that. I only put in my thoughts because you said in your intro "you were tryng to find your voice" and I was trying to help

As long a you are having a good time singing it really doesn't matter which you choose- you are a good singer no matter what you are singing.

Oh hang up Kappy subbin- we've all tried to talk him into that! he ain't bitin that worm! But I have to admit in the deepest recesses of my mind Ihave always wondered if "Listener X" and Kappy are one and the same
But to be honest I'm skeered to go there!  :baby1:

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