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I am thinking of getting a monitor for my small gig (bar only holds about 75 people max, but on busy days the outside area may hold as many as well). I am thinking of going with a mackie SRM450 but I was wondering if I could get away with a bit smaller (10" speaker SRM350) for use as a sound monitor.

Although I have not bought main speakers yet (I am currently using the installed system in the bar), I am thinking of getting a pair of SRM450s, would this be a good idea to have the same speakers as the monitor? I am in favor of having three identical speakers, so in case one goes bad, I can stop having a monitor until it is fixed and still have a pair of speakers.

My specific question is are SRM450s reliable enough to not require a backup on hand (1x a week use), and is a smaller (less than 12" main) monitor sufficient or should I go with a more powerfull one.

The reason I am thinking about getting my own speakers is that while the bar speakers are very good and high quality, their placement is not optimal for karaoke, and I have to limit the volume to prevent feedback (not a lot but, I know it can be better). Due to the size of the bar there are not really any other good options on where to place the singers with respect to the speakers in place.

Doc we run JBL'S and the Mackies are just as good but for comparison. For a monitor I have a JBL Eon10 G2 In small venues we have used it for a main with JBL Eon 15's with no denigration in sound quality.  Of course it doesnt transmit bass as far but it is one little speaker that blows my mind.

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I am a big fan of Mackie products (all threats of being hit with a rancid salmon not withstanding).  I think that a 10'' speaker will be fine for the stage monitor but I would suggest that you go no smaller that a 15 for the mains.  Good bass requires that you move a lot of air.

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Okay, who took my pants?

You shouldn't need a backup -- you can go mono with one if necessary.

WRT 10" monitor, I prefer those, because stage/floor space is sometimes an issue and a 10" fits better.

One gig I go to, the KJ uses one or two JBL EON G2 15s as mains with a Yamaha 100W powered 10" as a monitor.  Works really well.

I use 2 mackie srm-450s on the floor for vocal monitoring, very crisp, clear, precise,with a ton of headroom, I'm very happy with mine and i would purchase them again. I have also listened to the yorkville nx series and the qsc powered speakers and they are very comparable to the mackies and have great guarantees.

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Man Must Know His Limitations -Clint Eastwood

We have had nothing but problems with mackie products. Of the 4 mackie powered speakeres we own all have them have been replaced at least twice by mackie. They are know for thermal shut down. If you research other DJ boards you will find that Mackies are full of problems.

JBL's are very reliable, Qsc has the best warrenty on the market, EAW's are nothing differnt than Mackie. RCF are very nice also.

With a good pair of high power 15's there is no real need for a monitor. Un ess you are playing in large places where you are placing you speakers 40 to 50 foot apart or 25ft or more away from people will stand to sing.

Based on my limited experience as a singer with a monitor I realized the advantage of to be able to hear myself better for adjustment of my singing. Therefore as a singer I wanted to be able to hear the vocals louder than the mix that was going toward the audience. Sometimes the ideal mix for the audience has the backing tracks too loud for the singer to hear his own voice as clearly as is desired.

The optimal level of voice for the singer is louder than the optimal mix for the audience. Therefore there is advantage in having a separate monitor speaker with a slightly different mix of backings/vocals levels.

One time I noticed an advantage to having a monitor (as a singer) the primary speakers were only about 10 ft apart but they were facing outward toward the crowd.

When I was in the audience I noticed little or no advantage of the monitor, but it is for the singers.

Also the ideal placement of the primary speakers is to the sides or in front of the mic/singing area. If the primary speakers are behind the singer then the result can be mic feedback. Sure the directional cone of low frequencies make it so placement matters less but for higher frequencies the "cone of sound" from a speaker is more limited. The result is that the singer is not hearing the higher more directional frequencies coming from the main speakers (but the low freqs should be ok).

Since a good mic only picks up sound directionally down the barrel of the mic from the top, a speaker pointing towards the singer and at either the side or rear of the mic feedback is less likely.

As a general principal as well, I question the need for large main speakers unless in very large venue. The advantage of large speakers is for the lower frequencies, and those are not heard directionally. Therefore if one has a powerful enough woofer then the need for a pair of large speakers in stereo (as stereo at very low sound frequencies is less important).

I expect to rarely use my speakers anywhere near full power since I will be generally be in a small venue. Hence I doubt I will overheat them. Any speaker will eventually fail if regularly run near its maximum output for extended time.  

I know several musicians who have recommended the value of a monitor, even for a small venue setting.

I agree a monitor is a must for karaoke.  It's still LIVE vocals.  People need to hear themselves.  I run an individual monitor mix so the singer can request (as they often do) different mixes without affecting the main mix.  I get people that want no music in their monitor or more music.  They may want a different effect or none at all.  You can't do that without an individual mix (or 'ideal speaker location') & make the mains still sound good.  
The monitor does not have to be very big either, a Galaxy Hot Spot will suffice in the smaller bars that can't accomodate a standard floor monitor & it will mount on a standard mic stand.

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I roger the need for a monitor. While I can usually function OK if I can hear myself from the mains, I do better when I can hear myself well in a monitor.

But I actually like the mains better when the monitor mix is dry. I am a big believer in effects going to the monitor mix -- I believe singers sing better than when the monitor is dry. Some small amount of reverb removes the small defects from the tone while a dry mix doesn't.

I should practice with a dry mix, though, because I notice that a lot of hosts run their monitors that way. Even when I know what is going on, it throws me off a bit.

It is bar karaoke. Most of the singers are bad and or drunk. Most bars dont have room for a monitor. Anyone thinking about spending the money on a monitor that does not have a sub or 2 should rethink their inventment.

As KJ's you are not catering to Bon Jovi, you are catering to a bunch of non-professionals that think they are good. Investement is better spent on making the overall sound better.

With wireless mics singers can walk around the bar and be heard. As a singer in a band I never use vocals in my monitor mix the only reason for a montor is so I could hear the entire band over my amp I'm standing next to. Then again some mixes I have done the vocalist wants almost noting but vocals.

I still say unless you are doing karaoke in a concert size venue there is not a need for monitors.

Most of the bars i've worked have had stages.  I've worked a couple of smaller clubs but even then I had a monitor of some sort.  I don't care if they are the worst singer, they are going to get the full 'star' feel for their 4-5 minutes.  It must work somewhat, majority of our singers are not drunken screamers but actually good to very good, it's not very common that we just get drunken bad singers.   Talking to a guy last night that's been coming in for the last couple weeks nightly - good spender - great singer!  He said he was very impressed with the sound on stage & in the audience that we adjust for every singer, he said most people don't even do that & has found a new home for his karaoke.

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If that was the case then a $50 garage sale speaker system should be plenty. A great speaker system is not going to improve bad singing, and a drunk crowd won't know the difference.

Obviously I don't think it to be (always) the case, and neither do you.

While I admit many of my karaoke friends are less than great singers, I know at least a few that are quite good. Those good singers that do know the difference and would appreciate the existence of a monitor are the ones I want at my shows. If I have to go the extra bit to entice them, that is what it is all about.

Remember I live in a town of only about 100,000 that has about 400 ACTIVE bands (who have done paid gigs in last 2 years). Maybe 200 of those bands occasionally tour, and many of my Karaoke clients are those semi-pro (or even true pro) musicians. I expect that many of them are going to be appreciative of a monitor even if it is not really needed.

While a sub is a crucial part of certain types of music, the need really depends on the genre of music. A lot of music types don't depend as much on massive bone grinding base. I fully intend to get a sub at some time, but based on my clientelle and music genres chosen, the need for strong throbbing base is less than the need for a monitor (as well as the fact a good monitor costs far less than a decent sub).

As you admit a singer may want to hear a different mix of backings vs vocals than is to be provided to the audience. More than one of the regular singers have independently brought up the desirablity of a monitor for karaoke.  

I dare you to cart out a monitor for your singers at your next gig, and ask a few of the regulars if they like it. Some probably will.

Great point! It's bar karaoke, most of the singers are bad or drunk...I will not provide a monitor for you, but i'll provide you with a $10,000 speaker system!  Makes alot of sense  LMAO  LMAO

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I feel a good sub is more crucial than ever.  I had my sub amp blow last week & have the system reconfigured to run the SP5's full range again - they are normally frequencies everything above the sub.  I got it to sound pretty good without, but they almost sound like they are being overworked to get the same type of volume as I was before with the sub.  Look greatly forward to the day my sub amp is back, there is a HUGE difference with & without - not only in sound quality, but how much harder the rest of the amps have to work now to achieve the similar sound quality.

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I use the 104 but Id be lost without the Aphex It adds bass without peaking or taxing the amps. Properly set it pulls vocals out of the mud.

My singers that want hear mains only I have taught them to move out of the 90 degree spread of the monitor and closer to a main. At a first time stage setup I can find my sweet spot in seconds. Also I can adapt to a new system in about half a song but I need a monitor. Sometimes if I am struggling with a new song I move in front of the monitor and I want it heavy with vocal. With mics like a 58 a monitor is mandatory for using good mic techniques. Period.

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Loneman:



Some of those songs are the ones that need the most heavy low frequencies and a subwoofer.

The need for a subwoofer may still be there for other songs, but maybe not as much as for the heavy rocking like Pantera or Ramstein.

I am thinking about getting a subwoofer anyway (evendually) but I am going to wait a couple of weeks without it. My budget can only handle a moderately hard hit right now and, since the monitor will cost about half of the sub or less, that is where the spending goes.

I have three sets of monitors available to be used, two 15/horn, two 12/horn and two Galaxy Hot Spots. When at all possible I use the Hot Spots. As Lonnie has suggested a monitor doesn't have to be large to be effective. I would think that they would be ideal in a Karaoke situation. The price is good, they are built like tanks, and best of all small .

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I have no need for a monitor. My dance sets bang, and that's the point.

I have no room for a monitor in any of the places I work. Subs take up no more room than a speaker stand.

I have no need for a monitor. My dance sets bang, and that's the point.  :shock:  

NO!  The point is KARAOKE and making the SINGER and the SINGING experiance the best it can be.   The singers definately LIKE a monitor !  In my current gig I do NOT use a monitor and or SUB as the place is small and the speakers set up behind and off to the side of the singers.  NO feedback issues and the singers can here the complete mix.  ( I also have wireless if they want to roam and wander about)

As a singer I have been to places were I just could NOT hear myself as the KJ had the speakers set up out front in the BAR area  and NO monitors !   Horrible singing experiance and I wouldn't want that for my show.   In the event I do land a larger venue I will set up monitors and a sub.