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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:45 am 
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It has been noticed lately that several of the companies (notably Sound Choice) are not producing as much new Karaoke as in the past.

After looking into the legal maze of regulations covering Karaoke in the US it would appear that to make a legit Karaoke version (in the USA) requires one to negotiate a individual agreement and rate structure with the person/company that owns the song rights. This is for the Sync rights, anyone can make a cover version of a song without prior approval, so long as they pay a fee of $0.091 per song per copy.

Since song rights are distributed among hundreds of companies, it is unlikely that it is going to be worth a companies time to produce a oddball karaoke song. According to one source the standard is a $1000 up front fee per song, plus some negotiated rate for each copy made of the song. If the "market" for a song is only in the low hundreds, at most the "small scale" karaoke distributor can never make ends meet. Only when planning to sell thousands of copies can this fee be overcome.

http://phillykaraoke.com/print.php?sid=32

On the other hand laws in the UK seem much more reasonable
Not only is there a standard rate about $6 a disk (with no initial fee), it appears that all of the fees only need to be paid to a central clearing house (MCPS) and not hundreds of different publishers as in the USA.

http://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk/musi ... s/KAR.aspx

Prior cearance is needed to use the "artist/writer" name on the disk advertising/package name, but for a very small scale project (personalized) it seems that might possibly be avoided. Even so it would appear that the owner of the song rights only needs to be "notified" 28 days in advance of sales. For a small "custom" run it may be possible to not use the artist's name. This maybe leads to the complaints some of us have on our "burn" disks not having the artists name listed only song titles. Since most of my custom burns have been from Sunfly or Zoom, that may be the cause.

Based on the way the laws are written, I am not too surprised that UK companies such as Zoom, Sunfly, SBI and STTW are producing some current music including specialty interests, while in the US companies are either limiting their production to major hits that can be sold in mass or are flaunting the laws (Panorama).

Not only are the UK fees standardized and centralized, they have reciprocal agreements with organizations in other countries such that you can pay royalties for songs written/performed by US artists the MCPS agency. Only problem is that the products have to be made and sold (initially) in the UK.

Reading through the regulations it would appear that one can make a fully legal karaoke run of 100 disks for about $600 in the UK. By contrast in the US that fee would be at least about $15,000+ (with 15 songs/disk). For  a run of a single custom disk of 15 songs, the UK fee would be $6 but the same $15,000+ in the USA.

What this means is that US karaoke products are going to be "mass" appeal only. It is not worth the time of the manu unless they know they can sell 3000 disks or more. At least it makes sense now why all of the cool karaoke songs come from the UK.

Despite the money that can be made from making karaoke, it is small change to the music industry, especially a major artist. Those major artists have set the rules in the US that make "indie" karaoke impractical. Fortunately it appears not to be the case in the UK.

If the US laws were like the UK model, I suspect there would be a huge boom of dozens of new karaoke manus in the USA.

It would then even be practical (and legal) for an individual to hire a local cover band to help them make their personal (but obscure) karaoke favorite. At the rates a cover band might charge, it may be worth it to an individual to pay $200 to get the karaoke song of their dreams. A reasonable group of studio musicians would probably do it at that price. As it stands the legal cost of making such a song in the USA would be a thousand of dollars or more.

There are many amateur (but decent) bands in the US that are able to make music tracks that can be used in karaoke, for $100 or so. Many such bands may view it as a good source of income, especially when they are just getting started and paying off the credit cards on their equipment. If the legal maze of making karaoke was simplified in the USA, such activity would be a great source of income to small garage bands. Some of the bands may be doing cover versions of the songs already, and would not even need to learn the music. I personally know of a dozen or so local bands that do cover songs that are as good or better than the standard currently in karaoke. Most of such cover bands can't regularly draw 100 people to one of their gigs. Decent recording gear is now low price.  

Another industry that the US legal system is driving overseas.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:59 am 
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That and the fact that many artists anymore are denying rights to the manus that actually pay licensing fees leaving the shady companies that don't to create them or places with different laws.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:38 pm 
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Quote:
How do you obtain product clearance under the scheme?
You must provide details of all intended releases using a notification of intended release form at least 28 days prior to the release date of each product.

Products are subject to prior approval where;

the product title, packaging or advertising names or depicts featured artists or groups and/or featured composer(s)/writer(s)

the product includes content depicting an artist(s) associated with the tracks (unless clearance from their management has been obtained)

the product features more than 5 tracks either by the same artist/band or written by one composer or writer, or song writing partnership


As I read this in the UK it would be legit to make a karaoke version of any song (example "Thriller") for nothing more than the $6 fee, just like it is legit for any band to make a cover version of "Thriller" in the USA so long as they paid the "fair use fee" for each copy of the recording made, and if they performed BMI/ASCAP were paid their standard rate. The songwriter is not allowed to prevent cover versions from being made in the USA. Songwriters can prevent karaoke versions from being made due to sync rights laws in the USA. In the UK a "cover version" karaoke of any song can be made, even if the song was written in the US. In the UK however if one wanted to include the words "in the style of M. Jackson" on the cover version one would need prior approval.

As for including the "artists" names in the UK one only needs to get approval of the artist's management, not the publishers/songwriters. Publishers tend to be likely to be much more difficult, while for a less known band the management may be happy to get the publicity from the karaoke. Even in cases where the same person wrote and performed the song, getting approval of the band's management is likely to be easier than the publisher in many cases.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:13 am 
Anyone have any inside scoop as to why the artists/publishers are denying rights for use in Karaoke more than before?  My guess is there has been so much corruption (illegal tracks) in the Karaoke manufacturing industry over the years they're now sticking it to 'em.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:25 am 
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I agree - thanks to all the hard-drive thieves...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:08 pm 
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My guess is there has been so much corruption (illegal tracks) in the Karaoke manufacturing industry


I bet the management of publishers realize that there may be more money in occasional big lawsuits than the tiny ammount that they get from licensing karaoke legit producers. To find violators easier they may want to just make it so that "any" copy of song X is ilegit. Compared to the volume of income most artists earn from regular music recordings, concerts and other commercial licensing of songs for movies/commercials Karaoke may not be worth the bother.

It does not make sense as karaoke is really just advertising for music (as well as providing a small income as well). People who learn about a song through karaoke may buy the origional vocal version of the song or go see the origional artist in a show. I can personally think about many songs/artists that I grew to know about or like because of karaoke some I have seen perform and for many I have bought thier CDs.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:54 pm 
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If the artists/producers/record companies had any brains, they would deny ALL karaoke rights to any manufacturer & make them themselves!  Giving the option to buy the ACTUAL cd with either an underlying cdg track with a multiplex recording to eliminate the vocals or the option to buy an additional karaoke cdg version of the actual cd at an additional cost for those who want it.
THat way they would know who is producing legal tracks - themselves, and who aren't - everyone else!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:57 pm 
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Its to bad that Karaoke businesses havent organized like an organization to be able to deal with these issues. With most companies working independently from one another, the corporations and distributors and ASCAP/BMI have total reign over our businesses and the laws that govern them. If we had any power in the DJ/KJ industry could we make any changes about these laws? Since the companies who regulate the way we all do business, no wonder their are so many bootleggers today.
Any thoughts????
MV :wave:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Lonman @ 5th October 2007, 5:54 am wrote:
If the artists/producers/record companies had any brains, they would deny ALL karaoke rights to any manufacturer & make them themselves!  Giving the option to buy the ACTUAL cd with either an underlying cdg track with a multiplex recording to eliminate the vocals or the option to buy an additional karaoke cdg version of the actual cd at an additional cost for those who want it.
THat way they would know who is producing legal tracks - themselves, and who aren't - everyone else!


One up. Hopefully it will happen soon, then there will be no debate on what version is the best.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:34 pm 
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http://www.gordonrees.com/news/inCourt_072407b.cfm

We'll see what happens.  Looks like this happened in July this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:56 am 
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If they win on appeal it would be great for karaoke. The mechanical and lyrical rights are trivial in cost compared to the sync rights.

It would be another great win if the horrible pictures that are sometimes thrown in the middle of some karaoke songs durring instrumentals (by many different manus) were "illegal". Based on the ones I have seen most of them should be.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:30 am 
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Dr Fred @ Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:45 pm wrote:
Since song rights are distributed among hundreds of companies, it is unlikely that it is going to be worth a companies time to produce a oddball karaoke song.


Well, shoot.  I guess "Psychobabble", by the Alan Parsons Project, is considered an "oddball karaoke song", huh?  (that's the main one I've been wanting to find, and Knightshow has been pushing for it too)  A lot of other songs that I want to sing would probably be in the same category.  A LOT of people have been asking for more songs on one company's board (I won't say which one), and it seems like very little is being done about it...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:32 pm 
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Mike V. @ Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:57 pm wrote:
MV :wave:


I love this!

:wave:  *waving back to you*

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Lonman @ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:54 pm wrote:
If the artists/producers/record companies had any brains, they would deny ALL karaoke rights to any manufacturer & make them themselves!  Giving the option to buy the ACTUAL cd with either an underlying cdg track with a multiplex recording to eliminate the vocals or the option to buy an additional karaoke cdg version of the actual cd at an additional cost for those who want it.
THat way they would know who is producing legal tracks - themselves, and who aren't - everyone else!


Well, there's a local artist here who is selling his music on DVD Karaoke, the music was performed live at the Montreal Casino, you have the instrumental or vocal which is perform by the original artist!  Let's say there's at least one smart artist!  I tell you, the backing is simply incredible!  They could all do the same and make more incomes...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:28 am 
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It would seem obvious, the origional multitrack recording with the main vocal track left out already exists. all they have to do is add the graphics. the production costs would be almost nothing if the music companys put out there own karaoke tracks. obviously the mark up would be huge cuz record companys never sell anything cheap.

  how awesome would this be! much better than some of the crappy MIDI recordings ive heard

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