Karaoke Forums

Song:  The Chain
Song composition:  Verse/Chorus
Singer: Chamjam
Style: Original/Creative

Taken from Chamjam's description:


First off realizing Nathans ability in music I had to read into his above preface to the composition and rephrase it in my own head as "Different from what you are familiar with so-far .. Which made it evident he had an idea. I was listening for an innovative remake concept, so that's why I needed to listen to this song at different volumes.  I also tried to find OTHER renditions besides Fleetwood Macs version, I couldn't, so I must assume this verse->chorus contrasting concept in this particular song is all Nathans, and original. I have absolutely NO awareness of who the group "Tantric" is, nor do I know of any of their compositions (off the top of my head). I can't know whether or not they've done a similar version ! or a different version. So I can't take anything they've done into consideration.

First question I asked myself although different from what I'm used to compositionally given "This" particular song..

"Does it Work"-  Answer was yes.

"Is Contrast too much between verse and bridge"-

I had to question this and listen and relisten.. BECAUSE, quite likely what I'm not used to MIGHT very well be the catch concept that enables this to become the hit remake, meaning "the gimmick" that sticks in peoples mind *IS* something I'm not used to, hence a natural tendency FOR ME to want to pull it back to the original concept or lean TOO heavily on the original as the reference point..Since I know this song to exist a certain way IOW as Fleetwood Mac does this song..

I had to critique myself here as well to make an honest determination realizing
Different concept:  Yes
Technically: Excellent
Quality: Professional sounding
Does this work: Yes

Hence what stumped me a little:
This song with a new catch, or ANYTHING new and creative Can't fit directly into MY CURRENT comfort level of listening immediately.. Reason being "It's different" ! It's not designed to suit MY OWN comfort level in rock styling as I'm currently used to it today, NOTHING innovative can ! In fact MY OWN comfort level in rock styling WILL NOT sell today, it's stuck back close to a half a century ago. BUT, Once I became more accustomed to this, did I like it ?   Yes !  Did it stick in my mind ?  Yes

Conclusion:

I had to listen to this, and ask myself,

"Will I grow to REALLY like this catchy concept a few days after hearing it played several times on FM radio" ?, and the answer was yes, this sounded good, and it's "catchy", and easily likeable...

Therefore, what Nathan has done using such contrast, since NO quality of musicianship has been compromised in changing of song styling, while introducing a catch within a particular style of music that DOES allow for such creativity IMHO, is tastefully restyled this song to remake status while posing no clash. Chorus ALLOWS for innovative properties (personally I believe this has potential to become a "hit remake", because I believe this overall song is of "hit remake" quality, with a tiny bit of tweaking on the overall balance, and that can easily be adjusted in a studio mix..Point being technically this was excellent !)

THIS is what I was aluding to in the thread "Creative" vs "Nailed Cover". I HAD to take into consideration *I* tend to have a cliche ear.. I listen for what I know, and recognise, most do.  When faced with a new concept I go HUH ??  What's this ?  I was wondering, "Could Nathan have backed down on the Chorus volume keeping the same energy level and styling yet have put the chorus thru phase-shifting" ?  Well, I had to CRITIQUE MYSELF here too.

I'm a product of the 60's psychedelic era, HOWEVER we aren't in the 60's psychedelic era where music was put thru flanging, Phasing etc for "coolness fx"... So realistically NATHAN came up with a much more interesting innovative concept than I could've, and by todays standards I DO believe this works !  Whereby *my ear* tends to be canned, processed, and cliche..

I had to break out've my own traditional stuck comfort place to listen for tomorrows possible hit remake..  I believe this qualifies if submitted.  A final tweaking assuming Nathan is going for the "hit remake" will likely bring volume of the chorus where he breaks into the "hard rock" styled vocals slightly down to balance more with the verse volume in such a way that there'd be no compromise in his styling and innovative concept for a remake.  To detract from his particular styling here in order to achieve an easier transition from verse to chorus styling IS NOTHING he should do here.  It's the contrast that's "The Catch" for a hit remake.  TINY amounts of volume tweaking overall for balance would be all I believe might be considered within a final mix..
 Nathan emphasizes the Chorus as the "Catch", and takes it to a level above what Fleetwood Mac does, in this particular song there's already somewhat of a different or reverse compositional order of listening style many were used to given this period and genre of rock.  Fleetwood Mac does this as well putting emphasis on the chorus here shifting composition styling from verse/chorus to chorus styled verse... making the chorus the catch, the chorus tells the story with emotion, but the verse has the harmony content and balance of what we often get used to in chorus composition areas... In nathans rendition the verses (although beautifully done) aren't what catches the listeners ear as anything vastly different. It's his chorus that caught me as the listener somewhat by surprise and becomes the focus here, In reality Fleetwood Mac does this in the song as well, but not with such emphasis.. It creates the interesting "Catch" given THIS type classic rock song.  Although such styling was done after classic rock era IE... Axl Rose and others on occasion did this more-so AFTER the "classic rock" ballad genre.  It's Nathans "Catch" that we notice, but it works because compositionally it's quite balanced. I think Nathan should consider submitting this for hit remake consideration. We know the song, THIS is an interesting way to bring it back.

JMHO..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I listened to Nathan's SS sub of the Chain and I thought it was quite excellent overall.  I noticed in the song description that he was singing a version by the group Tantric.  Steven and anybody else interested in doing a critique, here is the Tantric version of The Chain for reference.

http://download.yousendit.com/4149BCA12BB18619

Listening to Tantric version for first time.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Thanks for such an insightful critique Steven, as Odie said obove me, this is a version done by the band tantric, so i'm not breaking any new ground here, but I certainly used there version as inspiration. I'm going to have to read your critique a few times and probably look up a few of those big words in the dictionary......but I really appreciate you taking the time to listen and offer your opinions, thanks much.

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

 :clapper:  :clapper:

My pleasure Nathan.

btw  (what Seby said)  (I was going to leave that following your comment to
me, but Seby quoted what I stated making it unnecessary)

This is an example of how WE ALL learn during an honest interaction !  If my goal is to help the vocalist, all is gained despite what I do not know. This time I learned something but still left points that I believe to be my truth.. We do the best we can, we do it independently and honestly, realizing it's only OUR opinion based on our own conditioning knowledge/lack of knowledge as the critiquing individuals. Either way,  I learned something new too, and some of the points I left for Nathan are still valid too !  Reason being,  it's MY opinion.. and when my opinion can be challenged with something factual I can learn.  But the interactive process despite being 100% factual IS a positive interaction because it's honest !!  It's OK for me to NOT know everything *even within my genre of preference*

As with all critiques,  the individual receiving the critique should take what is helpful to them. Not all will be or should be expected to be !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ok - Nathan I thought it was an original version too - the concept of the harder rock chorus, but looks like Tantric started that. I still like the idea of "souping" up the verse more too though perhaps slower and more dramatic hard rock type sound with perhaps a haunting Alice In Chains style vocal as prelude to the chorus. I guess it's probably kind of hard to describe what I potentially hear in my head. I still like your version though very much.

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The Truth Is Out There

Ok... my critiquing challenge.

Whoever is game, head over to my old subs & pick one to critique here... for whatever reason. Because you think I did a particularly good.. or bad job on it. Let me know why & what you think.

Only thing, I am mostly aware of pitch errors, so unless you feel that is a major component that need improvement, don't feel you have to dwell on that area.

Thanks

Syberchick70
"White Rabbit"  J.  Airplane

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

well Seby I am no musician so I am not gonna offer a technical critique...I listened to 3 songs...White Rabbit, Torn, Stockings. A friend of mine turned me onto stockings recently.
Of the 3 songs, Stockings was a stand out in my opinion. that song as opposed to the other 2 was delivered positively and confidently, you TOLD the story...with the other two I tended to think you were singing from the throat and sounded less confident as a consequence and the story suffered.
Having said that both torn and white rabbit are difficult songs for different reasons.

White Rabbit I find impossible due to the time and dynamics and Torn I have never sung publicly because of pitch probs

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

yes... I actually was going to say that you chose to critique White Rabbit when I put it up.  ;) I remembered! (cheater) but thanks again for it.

Thank you Yes, I love love love Suzanne Vega's more obscure, kind of weird jazzy songs like 'Stockings'. I find your review helpful because I do seem to have a problem getting my 'emotion' to come through in my singing. I may be feeling it, but to pass that on to the listener is a different job.

I have to wonder if the crux of disappointing singing is perhaps that I sing too much from the throat... or more likely some combination of errors. I know that I can't really get away with any 'powerful' stuff, as I would love to be able to do. I just wish I could figure out HOW to do it!

Thanks for taking the time to listen & give feedback.

Critique:

YES YOU ARE... So stop this  (Grrrr),  I suck at singing and I'm a musician, part of the critique process is that it enables us to LEARN as musicians.
(Sorry to get into this here,  this IS the critiquing thread and I wished not to discuss this) however in this sense MANY DO NOT wish to critique for this same reason, but these people that feel "unqualified" "ARE musicians, arguably if you love music, and have exposure to it, you are also a musician ! Many thinking that they aren't ARE by definition, "Scholastically trained in music" means VERY little here ! If you are a decent singer, YOU ARE a musician.  A degree in music DOES NOT enable most (in todays world) to become and remain "Performing artists".  In fact as stated elsewhere MOST of the time those with the degree are those that don't do the artform in a performance setting helping others that WILL in time become more successful in a different application of musicianship.

Sorry, I threadjacked here, and we probably shouldn't discuss this within the critique thread..

So lets get back to critiquing. ALL qualify and I mean ALL that are mature enough to formulate and deliver an honest individual opinion !

You are a musician Vicki,  you have more vocal training than MOST in here including myself... You've learned skills in radio, theatre, and in real FEW of us have learned. Granted some have more experience in DIFFERENT areas, and that's why we ALL should critique !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Not to try and take over the thread for my own benefit... but maybe you guys can give me something on this.

Today I went back and listened to my old subs. I noticed that 'White Rabbit' was well.. pretty typical of my trying to sing a 'power' song. Weak, strained, unimpressive. Along with 'Heartbreaker' and even 'Gold Dust Woman' (though I think I did better in places on that song). While on the song 'Smaller God', I was able to really give a more powerful performance, with which I sounded (to my ears), more comfortable and strong. There are still weak parts I hear, but it seems much better overall. Sadly the recording quality sucks.

I don't see a lot of difference in vocal range on these songs, they all have higher parts and require high energy. Although I can sing in the upper registers, I sometimes have trouble with transitions, especially where strong singing is required.

Now, I'm not asking you guys to go in and listen to all of the songs I've mentioned (too much to expect), but any ideas about what I did differently on 'Smaller God' that made it sound so much better? Or am I just 'tripping' and Smaller God really isn't that much better and I should forget ever singing songs that require more power?

Any tips on being able to give a better performance?

What you did 2 1/2 years ago will not be identical to what you can or can't do today. You really should retry these songs, and not settle for what was done that long ago as a new singer.. You might or might not be able to redo these songs even THAT way today.  I think you should pick ONE song, and resub it asking for critique currently, not the past

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

WAAAAHHHHHHHHH



but I'm a-scared

I got faith in ya Seb...

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Say that reminds me, a looong time ago you and JVJ had a song you both sang on, an original. I can't remember the exact lyrics, but it was something like "you take care of me, and i'll take care of you" or something along those lines, really a great song you should consider putting up when you get the time.

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

hmm.. I'll have to see if I can figure out which song that would be. He has done SO many. And thanks Nathan... heh... our recording stuff isn't really set up right now though, so I'm off the hook for the moment.

I know which song you mean now... it's called "I Believe in Love" Pretty song.