Karaoke Forums

There's a show in NY called Forbidden Broadway - kind of like if Weird Al spoofed musical theatre.  There's a whole segment dedicated to Crawford entitled "Put on Your Phony Voice."  Part of the reason Phantom worked so well for him is because he was able to sing everything VERY light and breathy...he's also helped significantly by reverb. *lopsided grin*  Now, for some serious "singer" Phantoms, go to youtube and search for Davis Gaines or Anthony Warlow.  Now, Gaines is another one who, outside of that role isn't very good - his voice is just kind of heavy - but he IS a singer.  Anthony Warlow is simply brilliant no matter what he does - he was the youngest actor ever cast in the role, and is just now returning to it about 20 years later.

_________________

"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

OK  <--  Not your typical post

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I just don't understand it..  For a non-singer (and I don't wish to act like a histrionic putz) but this type vocal ability given this song can practically bring tears to my eyes.. I'd LOVE to not be able to sing as well as him  LOL

This is gorgeous to me.. Assuming all the rest of his work is crappy just that fact that at one time he was able to do this alone IMHO qualifies him as a good singer that just never cared much to get into singing enough to possibly become a professional ability vocalist..  But,  I don't know,  both of you are much more experienced in this area than I am... I'm just hearing a technique that is amazing for THIS type of song.. Dunno..  Brb,  need to hear the rest of the stuff mentioned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDdbuhqELM

His singing in the tenor range is noticeably contrived and headvoice as well as falsetto might be questionable, but do you hear his timbre in the Baritone and upper portion of the bass register ?  This guy IMHO is a spectacular baritone vocalist.  Listen to his power and expression in the upper bass and baritone range ! A few times he even projects real voice in the second tenor range although it strains him.   This is singing, it HAS to be (or always thought it was )!!!!  Otherwise I'm goofier than most already know me to be

His singing in the bass and baritone areas is gorgeous !!!!

I'm feeling like a total fool right now, because to me this is one of the most gorgeous displays of vocals I've ever heard ! (of course the composition I think is gorgeous too) so given this song, this is dynamite !  IMHO

Listen to his sustain on the final word night, he holds the C# pitch despite the orchestra behind him playing atonal chords while reaching the culmination at the finale... doesn't break into vibrato and does what he intends to do, he systains that C# and that's not easy to do for a person that isn't a singer... I'm just REALLY confused if this guy ISN'T a singer.  Now let's assume he's a "stunt singer", still, don't must singers use technical skills that deviate from their true voice ?   The technique and emotion in ths IMHO makes him a spectacular singer IN THIS song.. Now if he chokes on everything else he does... I still think based on this performance HE WAS at one time a spectacular vocalist that might just be erratic and doesn't wish for singing to be his area.  But in terms of abilty ?  My god,  this guy seems gifted here

Granted he slips/cracks but IMHO this guy can sing. He hits the A (Noel) nicely and breaks into a nice falsetto.  I guess We can respectfully disagree.  He's a pretty emotional singer although perhaps not as polished as he should be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOoRmQ-vYX8


OK,  I'm done having my seizure now... (back to you tube)

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hey,  maybe he's not a singer,  I can also get my voice to sound pretty good during "You alone can make my song take flight" in that area of the bariton range :shock:   Maybe this just isn't a tough song for a person to BS for some reason ?  Still,  this was a damn good performance regarding "Good Singing" imho..

I think Warlow has better vocal control, is having an easier time, is more of a natural annunciates better YET I like the slightly rougher less polished singer of Crawfords in "Music of the Night" for some reason.

You know what I think the difference is ?  I believe some of you go for the more refined vocalists.  I prefer the less polished edgier singer with some roughness around the edges for popular genre.  I don't like refined male vocalists voices. I need to hear some degree of rasp, and I suppose what some of you would refer to as "damage".. Strange I know..  I need to hear edge in a voice to "feel something".
Even with the depth and timbre Warlow has,  it's too refined for me.

My voice for instance stands a chance in the classical genre, I can sing a few notes very prominently and I'm sure most would find them suitable HOWEVER I get dizzy, nauseated, hyperventillate and it's HARD to sing more than a few notes or tops a phrase that sounds focused and has depth in timbre and even vibrate... It's TOUGH work, I was practicing tonight and started coughing and wheezing....

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well, IMHO ALL the characters doing parodies in Forbidden Broadway are also excellent vocalists !  So,  perhaps my hearing just isn't as sensitive as a few of you in specific areas.. Even a comic impersonator who can do a spectacular rendition of a singer IMHO is a singer... To me singer is an ability to sing..  and perhaps leaving classical early on and just staying glued to blues and pop-style messed up my ability to differentiate between excellent singer, and hack singer impersonator..

HAHAHA



and of course this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7pBEZ9a ... ed&search=


.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[quote="Steven Kaplan @ Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:36 pm"]And to me "The Beatles" are an exception as were MOST of my preferences at this current time (at one point). I never considered ANY of them individually impressive singers.  Collectively what they did was so very different however !


As far as Beatles are concerned, you've left out the most important reason they sounded so good....producer George Martin and MCI technican Ken Townsend...George Martin made their stuff sound great with all his suggestions to how the music should be put together, what instruments to use in the songs, how they should sing harmony together, etc. Remem, the Beatles were completely rejected by every record company at the time cause their stuff really sounded terrible, it was really bad...the "greatness" was there but it took George Martin to bring it out, to redirect them.  And they had a technical guy Ken Townsend who was tops technically. For example, he invented using a four track recorder in 1963 (didnt invent the recorder itself), so now the Beatles could change a track without the entire band replaying again, a major advantage at the time.  Ken also invented ADT, Automatic Double Tracking,  in 1966...a way to double a voice at runtime.  What he did was send the original voice directly to a recorder, the same vocal also went to a circuit that would move the voice slightly above and below pitch, then combined both to form the final voice. Now they didn't have to manually double track their voices, so opened up the ability to be more spontaneous....but this made all their voices into much more than they really were with this circuit.  Sgt Pepper is also really a George Martin invention, to have an entire album tell a single story...he did the same on Abby Road....his influence really dominated the group.


russ

Thanks Russ,  I had no idea about any of this..  BTW..  Was the concept of Paul McCartney being killed around 1967 (the rumor) a publicity stunt also planned by somebody for beatles album revenue ? It really sold LOADS of albums !  That was around the Sgt Pepper period I think..  Was that Martin too ?

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That I have no idea, but I was always wonderin a publicity stunt.....

I recall being in Jr High when that first came out Russ, and it was freaky !  We really were cranking up the very end of Strawberry Fields, spinning Revolution #9 backwards, and trying to find the hints.  It really did sell albums.  Horrible way to do it, but it really created an ominous means of captivating the public during that period, and awed-fascination would cause we kids to scrutinize artwork on albums, and all songs for weird hints..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The Forbidden B'way singers are - for the most part - incredible.  Not only are they required to sing well, but they are required to sing like other well known performers, and, in some cases, to sing intentionally off pitch or "badly."  A surprisingly difficult thing to do.  All of them also have good careers outside of FB singing as "themselves."

_________________

"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Are you kidding ?  I better be tough and strict with myself.  I'd rather know my work isn't "performance ready" than to not judge my ability and procede to make a complete idiot out've myself on stage.  What audiences will say to your face, is seldom what their expression divulges if you watch their expression during a crappy performance.  Whether I perform in real in front of 300, or 300 listen to me make a fool out've myself in the showcase this doesn't change the fact that a CRITICAL audience is still listening to me as an adult doing something poorly.  That's not my cup of tea, of course sites such as this don't advertise that it's a good thing to have some concept of actual ability and work within that realm, yet lets be realistic.. When you perform something or "showcase" your work were any of us brought up to believe it does't matter if it's truly unpresentable, show it off anyway ?  Comment box remarks assuming a person doesn't know their place as a singer are not what's realistically being said about these individuals, but assuming you are being realistical with yourself, know and accept your place it doesn't matter.. It's fine to say "Hi, I'm Kappy and I REALLY suck at this, and if you rank me above 4 you are lying hence I will sabbotage your 10 rank average given the 500 songs you've performed by giving you an honest rank of 6 and ruin your day even though in giving you a 6 I am being VERY generous considering your ability"... anyway (yack yack yack)..  Singers showcase type venues are conducive to hiding the truth from the performer.  What they aren't (due to the fact it's easy to depersonalize an individual you've never met in real) is genuinely non opinion forming, and non judgmental across the board. Sure I want to be an 8 rank singer.. That takes amazing amounts of TOUGH work for almost all... I'd rather earning it than have it delivered as an internet "certificate" which in essence is what the current 9's and 10's are..  "exchanged handshakes"

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Most people are also very impressed by a singer who can hit soaring high notes. Just look at the Castrati, these kids were forced into castration just to keep their voices high. Check this link out, Alessandro Moreschi was the only true Castrato ever recorded, (according to this website), the guy is 50  at the time, and sounds like he's 10, it's actually kind of spooky.


http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-inc ... ecordings/

_________________
Satisfaction is the death of desire

Nathan,  That was done also in the days of the Vienna boys choir wasn't it ?  I recall watching a movie about that.. As soon as the boys reached puberty and what was soprano dropped to tenor they really felt the crises because they could no longer be a part of "the boys choir".  I think something along those lines.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

He's mentioned here.  I suppose "The last of the great castrati singers"

http://www.usrf.org/news/010308-castrati.html

(now personally, there's a limit to just how important it is for me to be able to sing a certain way.  I'd assume learn a different instrument or back up singers I like, but hey, that's just me)  Of course at that time, there were different values placed on different abilities,  so one can't judge what's different today as something that might not've been a consideration at one time over a century ago

Nathan,  I think there's STILL the tendency to respect the upper register singing of male vocals..  Look at in rock how many males :trying: to sing have a tendency to attempt to push their ranges into first tenor.. And, in male glee clubs, or a cappella arrangments, it's the first tenors often getting the leads in contemporary music,  and these are what are really considered the "beautiful" voices by most... and in terms of finding a first tenor who's a very good vocalist, well, I know they are QUITE in demand and hard to find in later teen years.. In glee arrangements those are the ballad soloists that often get the melody lines (or at least it was that way in the 1970's) in male glee... People do still seem to prefer the tenor as a lead preference in the human vocal range to the bass ranges of the human voice in our pop culture.  Similarly in pop the Alto has always been the voice that has been my own preference in terms of power and emotionally singing in THAT particular female voicing area... Today it's called mezzo-sop but I can't tell a difference personally, Alto is a wide range..

(much of this is just my opinion and preference that varies in accordance with style, and trend I suppose, but in pop music it seems the higher voices usually are the respected voices)

Perhaps for reason of comfortable listening range to people.. How many rock bands wish for lead instruments such as Tuba, bass clarinet, or any baritone instrument ?  Very few that I know of.  Lead guitar, violin, and the melodic instruments usually are in a higher range than the bass instruments..  Lower often means "Rhythmic" while lead is around a tenor, alto, or sop range.. While tenor female vocal parts are often in demand, the styling is different... and not as common

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think it's true.. respected rock vocalists like Freddy Mercury,  Steve Perry, and the first tenor vocalists seem to be what carved the niche into much of the british invasion. Led Zeppelin,  The Who, McCartney's vocals, etc..  Higher tenor ranges are frequently preferred.  I suppose ballad changed that, Chapin, Croce, James Tayor, Jimmy Buffet etc..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Don't leave out Mickey Thomas (Starship), though he wasn't a part of the British Invasion. Good grief that guy could sing, take a listen to "Jane" and you will be reminded of this. In his bio it claims he was mostly a falsetto type singer, but the notes sound much too forward to be in head voice, and especially on "Jane".  A voice like this just leaves me dumbfounded, much like Peter Cetera, it's so high but it still sounds too upfront to be in head voice.

Either way, there aren't many singers like that around anymore. Every guy I've heard take a shot at Steve Perry, or singers of that type, have pretty much failed. I have heard a few that can hit  the notes, both in person and in the showcase, but the control to make it sound "right" just isn't there, don't know how else to explain it.

_________________
Satisfaction is the death of desire

Steelheart lead vox is one that has an incredible upper range:

She's gone :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxnGaURm3B8

Angel eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUbUSac7Occ

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Yea I remember those guys from the 80's, he was great, I think his falsetto is a little more apparent than the others mentioned but geez, he could really get up there.  Believe it or not, the highest note i've ever heard a guy hit, has to be about 2/3's of the way through "Beautiful Girls" by Van Halen. David Lee Roth actually had a whistle register, at least back then, though his normal voice wasn't much to squawk about.

_________________
Satisfaction is the death of desire

Agree completely. I recall around 1980 I was in a cover band listening to "Jane". (needed to pick out my E minor intro stuff etc.  This was prior my knowing the difference, or even meaning of head and chest voice) and in fact I was JUST reminiscing about this short stint I had within the past 3 weeks.

I was trying to figure out the following, Is the "B" note he enters the song with (meaning the lyric "Jane") and the mix used given his timbre making us thing his strong held back throatier voice has a higher vocal register than standard tenor range ? IOW, is it his vibrant timbre and EQ'ing similar to what Bostons Brad Delp, and Peter Frampton (Humble Pie days although he was a higher singer in his teens but not falsetto) throat voice (not head) that enables him to sing sounding as if he's singing an octave higher than he is..

"Jane you say it's all over for you and me babe
there's a time for love and a time for letting it be"

Is NOT falsetto it's more "thoat" voice or a trick many vocalists seem to use which is appearing to be "wailing" while actually not even singing loudly, somewhat of a constricted styling where they are in their register but not belting from the torso, OR singing from their head.  It's all their natural timbre and register... Many of these guys do have a vibrant, energetic style similar to what we'd here from is it Chris Robinson of the Black Crowes ???

What I'm thinking is almost "Soft scream" of a style... They are somewhat screaming the words ..  Tough to describe... Yet if you listen to the registers, it's THEIR actual register.. They aren't really singing high.

IE...  "Seeing things, for the first time"... Same concept... Black crowed... Not really loud but projected emotionally and almost held back like a softer tasteful "scream"..

Brad Delp did that too ... and these are among my favorite vocalists Nathan

Delp, Robinson, Claust Meine (Scorpions) somewhat along the lines of what we are discussion with Micky Thomas aren't singing with peddle to the metal belting power, they are in fact holding back singing believe it or not somewhat softly but styled (I think) It appears to be wailing, but I think it's throat voice..... Similar to "Jane" they have a vibrant type style that sounds higher than I believe it is... I might be wrong but I think what we are hearing is held back "throatier" singing in standard tenor range however the voice timbre these guys have is more trebly ?  I've been trying to figure this out..Now sting has quite a high voice, but a very different singing style of course...  What I often thought was the "high" vibrant "classic rock" sounding (with exceptions of Steven Perry, McCartney and of course Steve Tyler who DO have high voices and tastefully break into falsetto making it tough to tell at times given their timbre a chest to headvoice transition) is that just about all the vocalists named were first tenor strong headvoice singers.... That can't be...  Listening to jane this IS his real voice, however it sounds as though he's singing in tweaked thoat-voice, or even EQ'd chestvoice and standing back from the microphone, but the lows seem cut.. That B sounds VERY standard tenor vocal register..

McCartney and sting as well as Steve perry are noticeably VERY high vocalists...
"Loving touching squeezing"

"It won't be long, yeah... Until you're alone with your lover"

That's pretty much this type timbre we are discussing but about an octave higher.. I think Steve Perry is a first tenor vocalist who can also belt... and uses stunt techniques...Yet how much is falsettoing and headvoice ?  I haven't a clue...  I'm thinking some of these guys really might not even have a falsetto that this IS their voice timbre, just suited for energetic rock style.

Not sure... I've been trying to figure this out... When you listen to "Jane" although he does get  higher at times in the song..  What we hear I think is just "rock yelling type throat voice held back" ?   (For lack of a term I can think of)

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

So could it be possible that these guys are hitting these notes by using some type of recording technique?  I've never seen any of them live, so I don't know if they could hit these notes as flawlessly as they did on the recordings. Is it possible to, in a studio situation, sing something more quietly from the throat, and then boost the levels to where it sounds upfront?  I dunno, i've always been told I was a tenor, but I can barely hit a single note from "Jane" in chest voice.  Another singer to think about is that guy from AC/DC....how is it possible to sing like that without destroying your voice in one night........that has to be some type of throat trick as your saying.

_________________
Satisfaction is the death of desire