Karaoke Forums

I’ve been KJ’ing for about 9 years and as many I started out as a SINGER and saw an opportunity to make some extra cash doing something I love.  Years ago as you would drive down the various “club strips” you could see the word “KARAOKE HERE” proudly displayed on almost every club/bar marquee.  The basic pay for a night back then was around $200-$250 per night for a 4 hour bar gig.  The average karaoke singer was an intoxicated patron with the nerve to get up in front of the crowd and LET LOOSE! Karaoke back then was NEW and EXCITING and every bar in town wanted it.  These NEW  KJ’s were either SINGERS who thought they can run a better show than the ones they were going to , or experienced DJ’s trying to CASH in or Musicians and SOUND guys who saw karaoke as a legitimate form of LIVE entertainment.  At the start my (karaoke) crowds were fairly large with double digit rotations all night long, and I was constantly adding to my library and improving my system.

Today it is different, Karaoke is still around but you won’t find it at every bar in town anymore.
Most of the Marquees have the word Karaoke in conjunction with something else.
Karaoke /DJ- Karaoke / Dance - Karaoke  / Wet T-Shirt Contest - You get the idea!
My Karaoke crowds are much smaller and the rotations in the single digits most nights.
The bar crowds are still the same and everyone is having fun dancing , singing , playing pool, etc.  SO I keep my job although the pay is now $125 per night for the average small town bar KJ.   Like many I am now completely COMPUTERIZED and my library and Sound system still gets many compliments as “one of the best around”.  Although I stopped buying monthly discs and just buy on requests or “sales”.  My bar system which I leave set up and share with the other DJ at the bar has downsized to a Powered mixer,  2 15” speakers and some wireless mics.
(Without any loss of quality or sound).  I still have my rack system at home for parties and “special occasions but who needs to lug that around every Saturday night.
I wish if having a $10,000 system and 50,000 songs would allow me to work 3 nights a week and make $300 per show but it won’t.  I have heard similar stories from other KJ’s in my area.

 I visit this site daily and add my opinions whenever I think I can be helpful.  I am waiting for the NEXT REVOLUTION which will move KARAOKE back to the forefront of the BAR entertainment scene.  What will that be??????   Ideas ?  Suggestions?  Comments?

I would love to sit down with you and have a few beers and figure out some stuff. In the olden days there was pool halls and at least one was the one where the big money was changing hands. Oh no no no We cant have this so laws gradually destroyed an institution  The oldtimers no longer had pool as they knew it so as far as they were concerned pool was dead. So the answer was smaller coin tables which made a lot of money. You cant expect all the customers are in a bar for one purpose. Pool darts karaoke whatever.

I havnt seen a bar with 20-30 singers for a long time. The novelty wore off and everybody  is more sophisticated about karaoke. It is more typical now to see about 10-15 singers (usually good) Pool tables going full blast and the payers there because of the music and energy. The old crowd is still there and enjoying it. There are those passing through that sit there with smiles on their face.

Anything works as long as it is non stop high energy and entertaining KJ DJ dance or whatever. I no longer measure success by number of singers but crowd reaction and what the z tape does while we are there. If the old style still works by all means stick with it but if necessary adpt to changing trends and believe me things evolve into a more sophisticated and a bigger challenge as people expect more.

I too wnder where it will head next that is one of the main reasons I hang out here and try to get hints from posts and different aspects.Another round please....

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It seems like you have visited my Saturday gig !
At times the list on the pool table is longer than the list waiting to sing !

BUT ..people are enjoying the singers more because the singers are there mostly just to sing and have a great time... The singers are BETTER than in the past
and they enjoy singing 5-6-7 songs per night versus 1 or 2.   Admittedly I play filler music for the non singers also but it seems to work for THAT PLACE.
Don't get me wrong I do enjoy the occasional night when a group or 2 comes in and the rotation is 20-25 people all drinking having FUN FUN FUN singing non stop karaoke...
What's  the next revolution ....

I know its not a coin operated KJ/DJ

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I wish I could help, but karaoke here is alive and well. Maybe you should move to the Chicago suburbs with me. It seems karaoke thrives on a regular basis in small bars here. In the bigger bars you'll find karaoke contests a few times a year, but not on a regular basis. The smaller bars have a hard time affording the bands. I think that is why karaoke does well in small venues.

I'm always surprised to here karaoke has died out in other places. I know my regulars are die hard singers and wouldn't miss karaoke for anything. I believe it is a sort of addiction for some people. I've had people come straight from the hospital not to miss night. Now that's a bit scary.

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Babs karaoke isnt dying its taking another form These small venues will take 150-$200 out of the till for us because the pool tables are busy and the place is packed.
Its a lot better having 10 good singers than 30 drunks. Also with my system I can compete with any band.

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My venue is packed with singers. When I start a night I'll have 10 singers plus and it is the whole bar. It can look like the place is empty, but I have a ton of slips ready to go. Sure people play pool, but that is to kill time until their up. It is a unspoken rule that if you're playing pool karaoke comes first. They stop the game until the singers done.

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Until the newest "generation" <----- if you can call them that, loses the idea of maintaining an "image" you will see people move back to karaoke. What I am trying to say, in my experience the people who laugh at karaoke or down it are just people with extremely low confidence or equate it with the possibility of lowering their social status. For instance, I have a friend (age 27) who held 'karaoke jams' at his home. His house, by his original circle of friends, was known as 'Groove Central'. He is a mutual friend of my girlfriend's. There are so many cool stories and videos that came out of that period. Over the past 3 or so years, he has started to hang around with the younger crowd (17-22). The 'Groove' is gone. He started shunning karaoke because of the opinions of the younger crowd. It's just not cool anymore. I know he has issues concerning getting older and has decided to hang with the youngins'. But, it does represent the overall climate in the after hours segment. Basically, people are just peacocks showing themselves off to each other with little to no chances/risks being taken. It is all about the way you look, career, etc.

Why is karaoke so huge in asian countries? Because for thousands of years they have been concerned with how they look, traditions, etc. Karaoke is a release for them. As our society continues to be more restrictive (image-trends), karaoke will continue to suffer almost anonymity and have an increasing stigma associated with it.

It used to take me quite a few drinks to go on stage. Now maybe a beer will do. The peacocks basically have to get absolutely hammered to get up there. When they do, the ripple effect of their actions carries out into their social circles and increases the distance.

BTW, that was not a rant!  :yes:

I've been hauling equipment since 1997 -  I was very fortunate to have gotten a start in the biz when it was hopping crazy around here. I live in a town that has officially 8500 people in it, but the surrounding county is huge, and nobody thinks anything of driving 30-40 minutes to go and sing. My shows between '97 and probably 2001 or so were standing room only - on a Thursday night. If you didn't get there by 8, there was no place to sit. We made more money for the bar on Wednesdays (3-hour kids show) and Thursdays (4-hour adult show) than the place made on most weekends. I worked on a percentage over a set amount and did very well based on their take (which I was privy to when it came time for the check to be written). I put on special shows for the holidays, etc., and had an excellent rapport with the owner/manager/bartenders.

I picked up other gigs in town based on that ... a small, "nasty" little tavern that was known for people with less than pristine morales and behavior; it was one of the funnest places I've ever worked at, and for a long time did 2 shows a week there.

I know that Washington State probably holds the record for most devoted karaoke singers in the country - we are drowning in karaoke hosting companies, the quality of which ranges from a cussing, abusive young woman who has never run sound before (I witnessed this last night - could NOT believe the language), to the sophisticated show where the crowd listens intently to the amazingly talented singers...and everything in between. I have worked hard at maintaining a high degree of professionalism in my approach to doing shows (I have been a stage entertainer for 30 years plus), and apply all my PR skills to making sure that patrons leave feeling good about their experience. However, this kind of show just isn't the rule anymore. I do my homework and visit other shows regularly. 95% of the time I'm so terribly disappointed. It seems there is an abundance of shows that cater to the staggering drunks who don't care about the quality of anything, let alone sound or song selection. The place I visited last night was packed with people ...  on a Wed night ... not an exemplary singer in the bunch, nobody was listening to the singers, the hostess had a mouth worse than any sailor I've ever heard ... and yet the bartender hardly had a chance to breathe, they were so busy. Go figure.  This is the caliber of the average show in this area, believe it or not. What the heck happened?

I wish I knew the answer to what the next "flavor of the hour" tide might bring - we are so saturated with contests in this area that eventually using that for a draw will die down (not soon enough in my mind) ... places offer cash prizes every night, there are gong shows, etc.  Granted, out liquor laws in this state are HARSH...and we have no smoking at all in bars or restaurants (only in the Indian casinos) ... I know that has had an impact but I don't think it has had THAT much impact. People don't seem to mind standing outside to smoke.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel - I get comments every time a new person comes to my show about how great the sound is, what nice equipment we use, and what a fabulous song selection we have ... now if I could just figure out how to get that across to these places that are hiring $100 a night hosting companies. I won't "give it away" and just wish for a quick demise of these 'KRAPPYOKE' companies that apparently have the run of the area right now...

I think the revolution is variety.  Catering to all crowds and genres - not just karaoke (except for where Babs works - where they stop non-singers at the door  :) ).  I imagine KJs/DJs in some areas are being asked to be more perceptive than in the old days that many of you refer to when karaoke was novel and often imperial.  People want variety, if they didn't we'd have no need for cable television channels.  Feed the crowd, but foremost know your crowd so you know what to feed them.  When the show becomes stale, change the channel.  Keep 'em guessing.  Keep them on their toes.  Don't be afraid to invent, twist, and experiment.  Not everyone comes to sing, recognize that and respect it.  People want to hang out with their friends, give 'em all something so they don't have to hop around different bars to get their individual fixes.

One of the (not so secret) secrets to life is knowing what the girls want and giving it to them.  Do this and they will come.  If they come, the boys will follow (prime example is 'ladies night').  I often have more ladies in attendance then men.  The bartender thinks it's because I'm so incredibly sexy.  :whistle:  I think it's because I make the singers sound good, I make the dancers sweat, I make people laugh, and by the end of the evening everybody's begging for more. (My variety = Karaoke, Dancing, Comedy).

Karaoke singers are an odd bunch ... they come in wanting to sing often.  Large rotations don't allow for this.  Even a rotation of 15 only offers them one song an hour.  Devout singers become restless; they sit and stare.  Some drink pop/water and tap their fingers (as if that's going to speed up the rotation).  They come up and ask ... "How long?"  "How many?"  "How come?"  "Are we there yet?  I gotta pee!"  That wears on a KJ and that can affect the energy.  Pain in the butt singers can often bring down the mood in an otherwise lively bar.  Don't get me wrong, they're the central feature of my shows.  But I've seen some seriously odd karaoke singles, couples, etc. have to go from karaoke bar to karaoke bar because they're such pains in the xss.  Karaoke singers are starting to get out numbered.  The market is oversaturated.  Gotta diversify.  Time to upgrade from network programming to cable TV, friends.  That's just opinion.

I find these conversations all very interesting, but there's one thing I NEVER see mentioned that I believe is extremely important, and that's demographics..  Karaoke has A LOT to do with type of area a person lives in, bar success, but I believe it's about "location".. Those of you that live in areas where bars abound, and stuff is within walking distance CAN NOT formulate an apples to apples comparison with certain suburban/rural type conservative areas..  I really wish we could have a thread where people stated "State-Type area-proximity to nightlife" etc

IE..

Kappy
Central suburban/rural CT conservative historic area
Bars currently not doing well
To find suitable Karaoke means traveling at least 1/2 hour each way weekends.

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Rural area Some of the bar owners I have known all my life.. People..., We dont play roles and dont have most of the problems discussed here We sing to live and we live to sing Imagine a karaoke show that is family singing at a picnic That is the attitude here nd the hard core karaoke singers are becoming less and less.

It is no longer billiards it is pool It is no longer karaoke it is a business replacing the jukebox and supplying the patrons with a show and what they want PARTY!!!

The karaoke %ss dont come to our shows WE play dance MUSIC OMG!!! It is a format that brought me out of retirement and gives me energy again..At one time I hated loading up and going to the bar Now I cant wait for the weekend. I hear songs ans I want to do them.. Its a brand new world and I might be gone when the next revolution hits but I'm sure going to enjoy this one!!!

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Kappy - I agree  some what but for a generalization I think everyone anywhere agrees that Karaoke Shows have changed over the years.  The DOG hit the nail on the head when he mentions variety.  That I truly believe is the KEY.
Some will argue that they are HIRED for KARAOKE ONLY and that's all they will do.
I say if it works for you Go For It!.

I live in Central NJ , very diversfied demographics.  The bar I work at is a blue collar bar located at a Marina .  Very lOCAL place even though some I know travel 20 miles to get there for Karaoke.  I have my regular singers , the regular pool players etc etc.

I have a friend KJ who is out of work.  She has a good following and puts on  a decent show... She can't keep a job.   She won't diversify a little and is stubborn in running the show HER way not the way management wants it run.  Her 15 regular singers are NOT ENOUGH TO MAINTAIN  a cash flow for the bars and her show offers nothing else for the other patrons who end up leaving or complaining about the constant singing without any REGULAR OR DANCE MUSIC.  This seems to be the norm more and more Bars around here.  The BIG CLUBS have live bands and or CLUB DJ for dance and advertise Karaoke but have limited selections and do 95% dance music and 5% karaoke so the "true" singers don't go there just the drunk 21yr olds looking to have a good time..... which isn't a bad thing

How dare these people complain about constant singing on an advertised KARAOKE night????     DUH!  They are idiots!
Agree with most though.  It has definitely been on the decline for the last few years.  Our weeknights used to avg. about 20 singers, now we get 10-15, weekends are still pretty hoppin' with 25-35 but this is even down from the glory days when we'd get enough to go through 1 maybe 2 rotations.
I stated before I would have no problem going with a dj/karaoke night, i've already bought the dj program & have a separate dj computer at the show running fill music (in between singers long enough to get to the stage) all night, but our bar does not want that at this point I have talked with them, they want karaoke & that is what they hired me for - so that is what they get!

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Around here there always was variety.  When bars pulled in a larger crowd (of course this was also pre-DUI, drinking age was 18, and less harsh zoning laws, and ordinances regarding cabaret licensing, two-fers, as well as other crimps that affected bars in this area), even when Karaoke was at it's peak early 90's, more were also simultaneously playing pool, sitting at the bar weekdays watching TV... Playing darts, video games..  Karaoke was NEVER a sole form of entertainment in ANY bar in my area.. Yet it did much better around here before the drinking age was raised to 21..

Now I understand what you are saying Jam,  however folks that live in areas such as Portland, NY, college towns where "pubs" are walking distance or near if not on campuses, tourist areas (even small ones such as Saratoga Springs where there were over 100 bars per/sq. mile -153 in 1977) aren't going to experience the same situation as some of the Texan areas which can't be compared to perhaps a North Central State Shoreline area small pub vs Large nightclub type environment.. and I don't know how those that live in rural Iowa, and Nebraska can find Karaoke at all.
Reason I think demographics plays a huge part is that I hear individuals such as MANY of you making statements that Karaoke still has a strong pull, in fact different venues might even specialize in different styles of Karaoke.. Recently one of the Texan members here mentioned something that indicated Karaoke today, is stronger than karaoke EVER was during it's peak up around where he lives.. and today Karaoke unfortuneately here is run by hacks and it's hacks singing assuming a lounge stays open past 10 PM...  Texas Holdem poker isn't played in local bars, I don't know if most even know what THAT means.. I feel so much has to do with location in this country... People, lifestyle, pace of life given occupations (demographics) plays such a big part in bar activity (I believe) one can't sample demand at all by using certain locations as any type microcosm.  It's not an honest reputation.. CT has three of four "dry" districts in fact.. No bars allowed.. and it appears to me that CT is trying to slowly head to prohibition periods.. So bars around here have little revenue, and will obviously payout less.

So.  While I think we can draw certain comparisons, perhaps Karaoke being more popular in 1994 than today and bars having less trouble making ends meet in many areas so a larger focus on the KJ, and Karaoke related activities since "A fad" was on the rise... Something relatively new that was still evolving.. Some around here love Karaoke and I suppose they settle for the hack KJ's around here. But there were ALWAYS those playing pool a few feet away simultaneously and others sitting at the bar watching any of the numerous TV's. and couples that wanted nothing to do with Karaoke sitting far away from it but due to lack of alternatives regarding places for a date to go that were open, they frequented the same bars..

Anyway,  these are my random thoughts...

As we touched on before

Fads change, but not at the same rate, and obviously not at the same time periods ALL over.  Even preferences for music in certain areas vs less artistic folks in areas like mine play a big part.. Musical areas I'd imagine in the mid-west where more put emphasis on music will be much more active with Karaoke at their bars.. (which has been indicated by quite a few in certain areas), variety around here was always in demand around here.. and proportionately still is since fewer sing karaoke, but the pinball, bowling, and other arcade games are still running in these places... Problem is around here I'm not so sure we WILL see an evolution in bar entertainment, because I feel currently the evolution is anti-alcohol serving establishments so it'll be the huge bars that stay open that still have live concerts (these never had Karaoke, just bands all along), and the smaller bars that have a few guys watching TV until closing time  9:30-11:00 PM weekedays on a good night.. Weekends only a handful open til closing time and these bar differ in what they offer radically.

Tough to know based on what I see around here..

But in general, I agree..  I think most locations follow a certain trend.. Although I only can assume what it is from reading in here.. I don't travel much these days by choice.

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I can't imagine there's really ANY similarity between bars in the Branson, Nashville, and areas that are HUGE into their country music (I'm assuming this by what I hear and read I won't profess to have ANY knowledge of these areas firsthand although I really want to visit them one of these days, probably would move there in a heartbeat) just aren't going to follow the same preferences as my area of boring conservative CT.. Where many get home from work weekdays and DON'T want to be around music, the ballgame is ALL they want, that and a beer or two... and to talk back and forth.. It sucks around here IOW.

Jerry, you have that guestroom ready yet ?   oh, and what about the girls ?


You see Jam,  Even in NJ,  isn't there a difference between the Metropolitan area, and the central southern areas ? in terms of demand and activity ?  Jersey has suburban New York areas such as Fort Lee, Englewood, and it's central and southern more rural areas too..  And of course Caldwell, and Cedar Grove where I grew up but no longer have a clue as to what's there these days yet I suppose those were still metro areas.  Can a person living in Newark even go to a bar safely these days ??

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I just tried to spend some points in the shop, bought then sold color and shadow and lost all my point just trying to change.    :(

Anyhow ... I'm in a rural area (hence my constant references to hillbillies and rednecks - no offense intended.)  30 miles north is a college town and beyond that the Canadian border.  30 miles south is the beginning of the Sea-Tactropolis.  We're a forgotten farmland that others seldom recognize except for the eagles and tulips.  People use us for access to the mountains.

Population is roughly 10,000.  Downtown is small (5 square blocks) and that's where everything is.  Eight bars (no kidding) in a three block radius all competing for the attention of the young crowd, the redneck crowd, and the lost crowd.

The young like alternative/rock/hip hop.
The rednecks like  :drums:  country.
The lost don't care, they're just happy to have some place to hang.

Lots of seven nights a weekers, fights, drug activity, etc.  It's a pretty contained enviornment, don't get too many people driving massive distances to find our little hole among holes.  Variety works for me because most of the locals haven't been outside the town limits and still can't pick Ronald McDonald out of a police lineup (I exaggerate - I think).  I'm not from these parts, an ex dropped me off on her way through.  

Gotta be Arlington.

Okay Croakdog - trying to figure out which town you're in...30 miles south of B-ham is Everett...30 miles south of Everett is Sea....am I right? Or where? Reference to tulips says Conway/LaConnor... Mmmhhh....trying to think of where there are 8 bars in a 3-block radius....Almost sounds like Snohomish but we're a little bigger than 10,000...Pray tell, where is home for you? K

ANother Washingtonian?  Where bouts.

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