Karaoke Forums

I think quite simply IF there's genuinely an interest in the receiving and giving of Critiques, this thread can last. While there appear to be enough that wish for mature interaction to sustain it, the problem has often been finding enough willing to offer critique in the past. It's not a tough process, similarly it's not always an easy process from the perspective of either party.  Honesty delivered with some tact. People shouldn't expect everything at all times delivered on a silver platter, and once we get to know one-another the process gets quite easy in terms of delivery because the persons intent is understood.  Enough have to balance the giving and receiving equation.

I admit,  the first few critiques I gave were scary for me. I didn't feel comfortable critiquing Lonnie, or Jian, or ANYBODY the first time or two, It's a different process than what we are used to seeing in the showcase, in fact the showcase might direct MANY to believe that Critique is BAD, but how is that realistically possible ? There's nothing more rewarding than taking a risk to have a person say, "thanks, that IS genuinely helpful and what I want and need to hear !". Some left the showcase because their needs weren't getting met.  Hence,  this thread.

BUT many want more than showcase type interaction.  This doesn't initially come easily or naturally as a process because there's always a concern of how it will be received.  This concern ends very early on however.  We get to know one-another, and when honesty becomes the norm and not the exception, we have numbers supporting the process of helping each other.

One common goal, HELPING another singer improve and in our opinion tweaking that might work, OR, even telling a person what you LIKED about their composition is fine too !  Just SOME degree of interaction that's honest !  There's no one method, however *you're* individually comfortable is fine, but it should be YOUR own feelings, as opposed to going with flow of others. As long as the goal is to HELP it's positive, is it easy ? NOPE. Similarly at times those at the receiving end will need to compromise too, realizing NOT ALL, at all ages, have the same level of ability in dealing with others, and NOT all Critiques may appear as "gently" delivered as some others.

I know it real, I've received MANY MANY critiques.  Many also "Sting".  I have to bite my tongue, take a deep breath and ask myself  

"Is it possible that what I'm being told is absolutely true, and I'm just too set in my ways to realize it" ?  "Is it possible that those that aren't saying anything are thinking the same thing and just NOT saying anything" ?

Usually in an honest interaction, the answer is YES..  If 50 fluff, and one is honest, this is likely one of the only cases where the person outnumbered by amazing odds might be "correct".  Singers Showcase is not a true microcosm of how you're being received by MOST that are listening to you in terms of ability as a "singer". However, those that see this as Just Karaoke,  well I suppose it's a whole different  animal... Critique is for us as people that wish to improve as singers.

So, let's start the ball rolling. I can't be the ONLY person giving regularly.. Perhaps we should let people in showcase know about this thread. Let them know there's another option !   As Vicki stated (and I agree totally), if singers come in here, make the trip to be treated honestly, and see that honesty is the norm here, it might be a missing link. And, I think as Nathan suggested, assuming this takes off, and administration sees there's genuinely some interest, depending on what members wish for, some tweaking can take place.. Depends on what enough want.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

truth is no i didn't fluff you....now i may not have caught what steven did but i was being very honest....steven and i were talking about ur song and i told him i heard  nothing wrong... i thought it was great so deal with it....l...

Steven (or anyone else who wants to), I would really like your opinion on my version of "The Chain" that is currently in the showcase.  I've had kind of mixed feelings about it from family members and such that have heard it. My brother said it was kick as*, my mom said that it was kind of harsh and irritating.........So if you get a chance i'd appreciate it, it is alot different from the FM version just so you know.

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Good detailed analysis Stephen. You really put a lot in to it and obviously have a lot of music background. I heard what you described regarding the duple meter, etc but it came off to me sounding a bit as simply style, or the way she decided to sing it to make it her own. Perhaps this has a bit to do with what I was talking about in another threat where I mentioned we are somewhat limited by the commercial backings we purchase as opposed to creating our own - unless of course Vicki created this one herself. Perhaps I should listen more but I didn't really hear it as conflict. Maybe she could have done it better with slightly different timing - not sure. Also the 'a' in away you mentioned sounded just like inflection to me - obviously different than the original but good I believe. I'm not saying your're wrong, these just didn't stick out as a problem when I listened. I might mention that initially when I first started listening it reminded me of a Celtic version of the song. I wonder how well such a version could be done - such as a Loreena McKennitt style version?

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The Truth Is Out There

Ok, not sure I'm off into critiquing all these, but read Stephen's comments and listened to the song and I'd have to say I agree 100%. This song was very excellent, but I know what Stephen means. Yes, it's being a bit nit picky but if you could put a bit more gruff, gravel, and volume into the chorus 'I'm a soul man' it would be even better. I too can tell by the way you sing that you could do this. Great job on this song BTW.

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The Truth Is Out There

Excellent job Nathan. I think a lot as always comes down to personal preference. That's the problem with critiques just as it is in the movies one person's pleasure is another person's poison. I'm familiar with the tune - having heard the original. The issue and question comes up with your phrase 'And if you don't love me now', etc. Here you come in a bit louder, gruffer, and more gravelly. This is a similar example  to the increase in intensity we were asking for in the other sub of 'Soul Man'. Here in my opinion it gave your song a bit of a Great White sound. This in my opinion is pretty good, but it may be a bit out of dissonance with the rest of the more melodic pop sounding - softer portions. I think it is a matter of taste. I kind of like what you were doing though. If I were to change it likely it wouldn't be by removing your more intense portion, but instead it would be by turning up the dramatic Rock effect on the more gentle Pop sounding instrumentation / folk guitar portions aka Great White or even God Smack / Alice In Chains. If only we could create such a musical backing it would be kick (@$%&#!) in my opinion. Imagine a slower, more dramatic rock Alice in Chains "Listen to the wind blow down the line". In lieu of that, you can either keep it the way it is and many will like but others may not, or you could try making the "And if you don't love me know portion' a bit softer and more mellow.

Regardless I like it a lot the way you have it. Thumbs up!

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The Truth Is Out There

Awesome, thanks Bill....That's probably what mom meant by "harsh and irritating"......on the chorus there. I think most folks are used to the original so it kind of comes as a shock when the heavy guitars kick in and such. Thanks much for the input sir..

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Nathan,  I'll be happy to.  When I get back from shopping this evening, and get to settle down I'll listen !   More than happy to help..

and thanks ALL for joining and participating.  We need ALL that have wished for this to work !!!!    :worship:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I've never heard that version, but here's my feedback (gee it's been so long).

I'm assuming that as usual, you did ALL of the harmonizing and such and omg... that is DEAD ON. Yes, I realize some people don't like to hear about 'perfection', but quickly here's my take on that...

When I hear something that sounds so darned good that I really can't hear any room for improvement, I say it's perfect. To me, the softer parts were perfect.

The chorus, which rocked, lacked something and I think it was more in the mixing than in your voice. Your voice was right there, powerful, high energy. The 'scream' was very well executed. It just felt like the voice was too 'stark' and out there.. kind of hanging alone in the breeze. Not supported well by the music I guess?

Otherwise, I really like it and missed your singin.

Steven.. I very well could have written that critique about myself Only not quite so well done probably.

Of course you know.. now that I'm sans vocal chords & all I guess I'm off the hook.

Vicki - my feedback on 'Ticket to Ride'

Another version of a song I've never heard before, but I'm going to critique it independent of having heard or trying to hear any previous version, simply on it's own merit.

Your voice is very full and mellow... kind of smoky. Very pleasant to listen to and relaxing in this song.

The only room for improvement I can hear, which you are probably already aware of because it sounds like you have an EXCELLENT ear, are a few very small pitch errors, which are quickly corrected. Most people may not even notice them, but to me, BECAUSE this song is in such an odd key with some kind of.. almost bluesy pulls, the small pitch imperfections stand out. For example, "They said, that living with me, was bringing him dowwwn, yeah"... I heard the 'was' as being slightly sharp.

Considering that I only heard like... 3, maybe 4 in the entire song, it really is a very minor thing and at the end, my ear when you were going out on the repeating "Think I'm gonna be sad"... to my ear, 'sad' was just a notch, and I mean a tiny notch, sharp each time.

The only other room for improvement I noted, and this is again so small, but during the chorus your voice was not exactly in time with the backup singers and I thought it would have sounded better if it had been. However, where your voice has a different timing than the backup singers at the end, kind of floating above them, I thought was a very cool effect.

It's difficult to find room for improvement in such a good submission. I haven't heard you very much, but I do think you have a professional, studio quality voice based solely on that song.

Ok, so that was an infamous Seby critique.
Now see why most of SS hated me?

Oh wow!! ! I just read this! Sounds like our picky ears heard some of the same things. Whew!!! I thought I was going to be alone in my evaluation!

(sorry Vicki - I'm totally not picking on you, it's just that *MY* critiquing was so criticized when I was here before, that I kind of lost faith in myself.. especially when critiquing someone who is really GOOD)

Thanks Seb...   And I knew you couldn't stay away........Actually I think the whole point of this thread is for those who REALLY want honest feedback, so I wouldn't worry about any retribution on your subs over in SS..........I did do the harmonies (on the verses), I always opt to do that when I can, and it was worse before I went back and fixed some things, though I still notice a little dissonance on the beginning of the second verse. I don't think rock is my strongest suit but I have to let out the gravelly tone every now and again, maybe I should use a dynamic mic instead of the condensor when I record this type of vocal, trial and error......thanks for having a listen Seb, and it's really good to see you around again, how's JVJ?

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Seby I cant thank you enough for taking the time to listen and to critique, I really appreciate it thank you. Yeah I have pitch probs in most everything I sing but timing is probably my worst issue. Not making excuses for anything but I do the same when voicing ads...someone gives me a pacey read yet the backing is slow and sultry...dont work for me...so I end up chopping the creative apart to fit the music they expect me to speak over...I have the same issues with backing vocals, I am rarely spot on (if ever) simply cos they dont fit with the way I hear (or dont hear) the song. Once again thanks so very much for taking the time I really appreciate the feedback. Any suggestions you guys can make to assist me in hearing the timing better would be much appreciated

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Pick away Seby...I think I have a healthy evaluation of where I sit in the entertainment food chain...I have a very average voice...what gets me work is my versatility and my range (lower register) without those in my favour I would have nothing to recommend me at all. I am totally enjoying being a part of this positive experience. I have never had a voice lesson and dont read music, this is a dream come true for me, so pick away

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

well i also would like to ty everyone for taking their time to critique my songs... but just for the record i don't agree with anything said....i can't believe ya'll would just put me down on purpose, did i make someone mad r what? how dare you people .....

ok got that out of my system.....ll...i really ty ya'll for the time taken.....and yes i agree on SOUL MAN ....i knew something was wrong just couldn't pin point it....

i'm very excited about critiques, normally i put all my songs under critiques i'll slow down now...what i mean by critique was just be honest....if you like it fine if not that's fine to....no biggie....and i don't mind being nit picked....it's fun learning...

ty alot guys....

Nathan,  A question prior to offering my opinion.  Since I've only heard the Fleetwood Mac rendition before, In this rendition have you done your own harmonizing ?  From your singers showcase description it appears you've layered your own harmonies on this song ? (I didn't wish to read back scanning comments searching for more hints regarding this, reason being that when I do that type thing, I often read something that can make it tougher for me to remain as objective or original as I wish to be when leaving my comments). Additionally, since you're extremely talented, I don't wish to assume that you haven't done any of the instrumentals in this song when there's always a possibility you have done at least some instrumental work.  I know you did fabulous work about a year ago in a Black Crowes rendition, playing your own guitar backing, perhaps other songs as well, so have you done any of the instrumentals here ?  I just want some setup on this song prior to formulating an opinion.


This is the type of song I really want to crank up and listen to LOUD.  So I'm going to do-so tomorrow without headphones.  I have a decent speaker setup on my computer and I really want to hear this cranked.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

It's good that you have decent speakers because I think that makes a huge difference in what your hearing. I have a pretty good monitor setup, 8 inch subs, mids and tweeters, so it's alot different than hearing it played back on tiny computer speakers, which I think alot of people do. I did do the harmonies on the verses, there was a canned backup on the chorus and the end "running in the shadows" which will probably be obvious when you hear it.  EDIT:  I did none of the instrumentation here.

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

No problem! JVJ is doing ok... been having some health issues and since we moved (like 9 months ago) we haven't been able to get our recording stuff back in order, so he hasn't really done any new music.

We HAVE caught up with some musician friends of mine from the past though, and they and JVJ have had fun just kind of 'jamming' together and such. Yay for a little social interaction. The bidness is still struggling along... the computer repair end is doing better than it was, but still not really well enough to be profitable. I'm hoping that will change soon though. Is everything ok with you?

You're quite welcome and I have to disagree with your statement below. You are NOT an 'average' singer. Average singers are what you hear for the biggest part at karaoke bars and I'm sorry, but they mostly suck. You actually have a good enough voice to do lead vocals and that in itself is something to be proud of.

I wish that I could give some helpful suggestions for timing, but for me, it's one of those things you just have to 'feel' unfortunately. I WOULD suggest that you try like.. singing with a metronome or something, but in my experience, especially with popular music, the tempo actually VARIES within the song to the point where you can start off with your metronome on the beat, and end up with it off. So, that isn't helpful.

Snapping your fingers might help, but again, certain songs require you to sing syncopated, off the beat, so that might just be confusing. The only thing I CAN suggest, is if you find a 'trouble spot' in a song, go back and just go over it and over it, trying to match the pace of the backup singers until you get it right. It's sometimes easier when you isolate a section to work on it.

Of course, this is a problem mostly due to the fact that you are singing to a canned 'karaoke' backing. Normally, the backup singers would have to match YOU, not the other way around. Good luck!  :hug: