Karaoke Forums

Well I'm well on my way to finishing up my system. Next on my agenda is some mics. So couple questions.

Wired or Wireless?

any difference in Shure SM58 models? I noticed they seem to be the mic of choice for these types of applications.

~Lazer

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

The 58 is a workhorse and one of the BEST live application mics you can buy.  I highly recommend them--I have one that's over 15 years old and still going strong with the only problem being having to change the ball (dents, dings etc).

Very simply put you just can't go wrong with them but if you're using for karaoke I'd go with the wired versions--while the wireless is a great mic they simply cost too much to take the abuse they'll go through.

Best of luck to ya!

_________________
[shadow=white][scroll]Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.....It's about learning to dance in the rain[/scroll][/shadow]

An SM58 is an SM58. Good mic for karaoke, indestructible. It is my favorite, but also excellent is the Sennheiser 835 and IMHO it is probably a better mic for all voices. (The SM-58 is great for my voice, so it is my mic of choice.)

I recommend no switch -- having one just means restarts when people forget to turn it on.

WRT wired or wireless, for a home system it doesn't matter that much. I like to have both, since at parties there are quite a few shrinking violets who will sing from the couch but won't dream of getting up in front.

The recommendation I personally would make, based on everything I have seen here.

Pro system for gigging, get both wireless and wired for different situations.

     * Wired -- Two Sennheiser 835 ($99 each)
     * Wireless -- AKG WMS-40 Dual Presenter handheld (two mics for $350 US)

Home system, either or of the above.

For the wired, always get lifetime guarantee cord from Guitar Center.

If cabled, don't get one with a switch.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Wired vs wireless is completely up to you.  I haven't heard a good 'cheap' wireless yet even with many of the recomendations from here.  Wireless are nice until you get the idiot that sees the video of his favorite rock/rap/pop star drop the mic at the end of the video & thinks it would be cool to do at the end of a karaoke performance.  Even a wireless SM58 won't stand up to that more than a couple times.
I prefer wired myself & the SM58 is the prefered choice.  Have 3 that have been in service 7 nights since 94, been swung, flung, dropped, kicked & still sound as good as day 1.   1 was actually just replaced recently but not because it doesn't work, the shaft where the mic cable clips in finally wore out & won't hold the cable firmly anymore.  Just replace the mesh screen at least once a year & you have a new mic.  With wired mics, makes sure to get lifetime warrantied cables.  When they go bad, you go exchange them for new cables for free.  They cost a little more initially, but will more than save you cash in the long run!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Any different between the SM58 and the SM58BETA?

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

I have compared SM58 (yes, I now own a clone) and an Electrovoice ND-767a. SM58 is muddy in comparison. The ND-767a is a super cardioid microphone. Check out both technologies. I presently own a clone of the SM58 because it masks "voice irregularities" of visitor's to my home setup. The ND presents way more accurate reproduction of your voice. The ND is just as rugged as the SM58. Also sports rubberized grip.

ND767A Specifications:

      Polar Pattern: Supercardioid

   * Frequency Response
         o Close Response: 25-22,000 Hz
         o Far Response: 50-22,000 Hz

SM58 Specifications:

         Dynamic (moving coil) Cardioid

Frequency Response
   50 to 15,000 Hz

As you can see the frequency response is better on the 767. It reproduces a better range when held close (1-3 inches). It allows you to choose whether to back off the mic from your face to mask problems with your voice or get in close if you are confident.

I also found the Pops where more accentuated on the SM58 (not by much, just an observation). The 767 uses some sort of VOB tech to reduce it further. One highlight of the SM58 was that it can be had with a switch. At home, I run a splitter into my PC. The SM58 clone has a switch (which I find to be switched on and off when people get nervous while singing.)

On wireless, I have been fairly disappointed with wireless mics in any environment. I feel like they lose even more frequency range than the wired options.

If I were performing gigs, (because I am a tad anal-retentive) I would have the 767a, a sm58, and a wireless setup. 767a would be a little known secret for the singer to pick up if they feel they are confident. sm58 would be given to, well you know, the others. Wireless would be for those singers who like to venture out into the lounge while singing.

PS. The nd767a gets 5 stars from 53 user reviews @ MC and the SM58 got a little les s than 5 stars from 340 votes. Obviously, the Nd is more money hurting it's popularity. You can find it elsewhere (like the Bay) for less. I got two brand new Nds for $129 shipped.

Looks like the beta has a bit better frequency response of 50-16,000Hz vs SM58 50-15,000Hz.

The SM-58S is with a switch, otherwise the same mechanics.
The SM-58 LC is with cable, the SM-58NC is without cable.

The Shure Beta-58A is similar in concept and function to the SM-58 but has different internal components. Not quite as widespread as the SM-58 and slightly more expensive, may be a better mic, but debatable if anyone is going to notice the difference, the SM58 is very good.

I would avoid the switch as others mention.
Too many singers may turn off the switch after their song and confuse the next singer.

All of my musician friends said that  the SM58 was the wired mic to go with, if I had the cash. If I didn't have the cash to buy a used one, apparently they stand up to years of major abuse, and used ones can often be found at pawn shops at low prices.

Once you sing with a SM-58 you will realize how lightweight and lower quality the other discount mics are. They just feel sturdy. Singers with other music experience will notice the difference.

SM58 is more of a general mic, wider pickup pattern, great for vocals, sounds great.  Beta58 is a tighter pickup pattern meaning less feedback with proper mic technique, little better frequency response, however many singers don't know correct mic technique & tend to sing off to the side of the mic & you will get less of a signal in the mic which means you'll need to turn it up to compensate thus adding possibility for more feedback.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yes, this is proper tech. The pickup pattern is key to voice placement.

Human hearing of high pitch decreases with age. Most young people can hear up to 20khtz, rarely to 22khtz while adults generally only hear up to 15-16khtz or less.

If your bar has the geezer +30 crowd as the main audience, it is rare that they will have the ability to tell the difference (except to annoy their seeing eye dogs).

That seems to be the standard opinion. However, my girlfriend (who is seven years younger) cannot hear me mutter obscenities from 6 feet away, but she could hear a massive difference in her voice and others when we were A/B -ing the Sm58 (original) vs the ND767a. I could be considered to have a "golden ear", but I will have to disagree. I would much rather have something capable of picking up every range and take the chance of people not hearing it, rather than just filtering it out.

Edit....

I looked up the specs of Yorkville NX55 and Mackie SRM450. It seems with the type of portable speaker solutions most use. The cutoff for lower frequencies occurs @ 45-50Hz. Thus negating an benefit of utilizing anything other than an sm58 type frequency range. The speakers just can't reproduce the sound. So, until portable units can reproduce higher and lower frequencies, the SM58 will do.

I using home tower speakers capable of 35Hz - 20kHz. So my perspective is a bit different.

Normal vocals are in the 60Hz-5000Hz range, including harmonics.

I guarantee you no one sings at 20Khz. Not even the far harmonics of what they are singing, which top out at about 6Khz. Any freq response spec up in the range of 15-20KHz is completely meaningless for vocals.

The super-cardioid mics are lousy karaoke mics, because 95% of karaoke singers won't know how to use them, and they will actually sound better with a regular cardioid mic like the SM58.

Plus the fact that right off the bat you want to do a low cut on a mic to help prevent alot of handling noise & low end feedback.  Most decent mixers have a 75-100 hz low cut for mic channels.  Also there are many singers that have a very high pitched - tinny - sound to them, so you do a cut on the treble side.  The EV's are a brighter mic, but the SM is more suited to vocal/singing applications in live situations.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Thanks for the replies. Looks like SM58 wired is how I'm going to go.

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

Good choice, I have 1 Sm58, 1 Beta58 and 5 Beta 58A's. I have only had one death in the family (Beta58A), and that was from taking one to many high dives from the mic stand. As others have suggested the Beta's are better at rejecting feedback because of their supercardoid pattern but I doubt your situation will call for the extra gain. Does anyone happen to know the difference between the original Beta58 and the Beta58A ?

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Shure SM 58 is so outdated. This Mic hasn't changed since 1967 when it was first introduced.

For wired applications:

AKG D 5

AKG C900M

Sennheiser E845

Sennheiser E945

The feadback to gain ratio on the mic hands down blows away an SM58.


Wireless:

Sennheiser G5

AKG WMS 40 (Cheaper but still does a nice job)

Just because it dates from 1967 does not mean it is not a good mic.

Talk to professional musicians and a good majority will swear that the earliest models of electric guitars are the best. Many of those designs date to 67 or before.

The fact that the Shure SM58 dominates the live performance market for live music vocals must be due to something.

I talked to a several professional musicians (two of which had signed with major labels) and they said just go with SM58 and ignore other options.

Not to say that the other mics may not be as good as the SM58, but the age alone is not a reason for change.

As for the microphones some of the ones reccomended by the previous post are supercardioid. Supercardiod have a smaller cone of area where they pick up sounds for amplification. Therfore in a band setting with other sounds on stage from the insttruments they may be a better choice. However as has been stated more than onece they need to be held in the correct angle and distance to be used optimaly. Many karaoke singers may actually be hurt by this improvement as they will be singing to the "side" of the microphone.  Supercardiod will work even less in such applications. Unless you run workshops on how to use a high quality pro mic for the singers they probably will actually hurt many of the performances.

In any case, so long as your speakers are not pointed exactly down the barrel of the mic even a SM58 there should not be too much other non vocal sound to pick up by the mic. (unlike in a band setting). The feedback problem of the SM58 is therefore largely irrelevant.

In music venues that book small gigs regularly, the standard is the SM58. Musicians know how to use it and that is what they expect to be provided by the house.

Not to say that some karaoke gigs might benefit from a $1000 wireless mic, but most will benefit far more by buying another 50-75 cds worth of songs produced by the better manus. A pro singer might gain a bit from the expensive mics, but the main advantage is a narrower pickup pattern which is less of a factor for karaoke without a nearby band. The SM 58 is based on technology that developed in the 50s and 60s actually allowed live performance because of it's narrower pickup patterns. Those patterns are sufficiently narrow for karaoke, and even narrower ones may be overkill.

Two good wired mics will run you $100 a piece (SM58s), but the thing about the SM58 is they're not designed for amateurs.  They have a small sweet spot.

I purchased VocoPro UHF-3800 Professional Dual UHF Wireless mics for around $250.  That's only $50 more than two SM58s.  You'll thank me later.  They sound great.  They've never let me down.  They've been dropped half dozen times and never skipped a beat.  They make the good, the bad, and the ugly sound well.
I also have two SM58s that I will break out if I need additional.  I won't go back to wired mics for my primaries.