Karaoke Forums

Problem is, though, Steve, that no matter how nicely you give the critique, there are some people who just don't want to hear it here.  Even if they choose "comment and critique".

Also it's so hard to remember everyone, what you say about the songs. Like for me, it's a given that I hardly mix, and my breath support needs work, and sometimes my voice squeaks from allergies...but I can't say that on every post...nor can we each explain on every post our various vocal deficiencies, or what training we may have had, etc. which would be helpful to know when giving critique.

There are a lot of people, too, who just like to sing and record for fun and think that any critique is taking the fun out of it.

So my point is, no matter how constructive or positive the critique, some people will still get their feelings hurt. Even if they say, "I want critique".  What they are really saying is, "Tell me I"m wonderful!"

And there is the opposite end of the spectrum, too.  People who think they are being "honest" when really all they are doing is being mean.

I don't mind critique, comments, whatever...but if I think you are being rude, then I will reply in kind  Someone critiqued me last week and I had never heard of this person before, and they had never posted their own song, so I did not take it very well  Oh, well...

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

Thank you, Steven, I will print this out and read in depth when I am more awake I have always had trouble with this particular song and I still haven't figured out why yet. Maybe your comments will help me. Sometimes I just have to go back and look at it or think about it a different way to get it to work, and it can take years of going back and forth. I CAN do slow songs but not this one for some reason.

Oh, and I don't remember if it was true in this particular case, but sometimes the allergies really get in the way and make it hard to sing through...or I am concentrating so much on the parts above the throat (because of allergies) that I forget to work on the breathing part.

I will keep trying!

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

Steven, some people may feel more comfortable with your critique if you post your own songs...just a thought!

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

speaking of mean critiques they reallyyyyyyyyy hurt my feelings. heck i think i feel a complex coming on....

truth is i loveddddd getting honest critique's really made it more fun for me...i'm really tired of the oh ur so great, can i please please pleaseeeee buy ur cd that's on sale for 39.95....ok maybe that doesn't get old....ll...

but it really was nice, i think most times people r just telling you things u already know but r to close to it to hear it....on that last song i did, i knew something was wrong and something was different but i couldn't figure out what it was...
but ty to the people that did give me their honest opinion i now know i suckkkkk at singing....ll...kkkkk

i too will give honest critique if asked...for what it's worth anyway....

again ty everyone for being honest

Suzanne, You are correct.  What I am going to do is share with you all MY OWN critique of my singing. It's critiquing me no holds barred, no fluff. So it will be quicker

Kaplans Self Critique:

Songs

I Need You- America

I'm trying to clone the lead vocals, It sounds as tho I'm trying to clone vocals. Vocal quality is very weak, timbre is lifeless held-back and rigid sounding. moussy sounding head-voice attempting to be clone vocalist. Reality- Sounding like a non-singer who thinks he can clone a style not suitable. Falsetto is OK, but again weak, lifeless, no real heart, no personality, weak and moussy sounding. I must ground myself in some area of comfort and sing in accordance with what I am and settle for needing to make changes assuming I wish to sing songs I want to be able to sing. General:  Weak, wannabe America vocalist, doesn't work. Sounds absolutely like a non-singer singer a song with a gun pointed at head.  Phrasing works, pitch is basically good as a third harmony I pass during chorus.

Can't find my way home- Steve Winwood

Pitch is OK, Phrasing is OK.. Trying to sound like Steve Winwood, I don't. Easy time with falsetto but falsetto sounds like a person who has the ability to falsetto singing with no expression, no heart trying to clone Steve Winwood.. Very clean falsetto with no edge not suited for this style. No real presence, no personality

Cherish- Association

Getting thrown off by full orchestration,  words Dreams and schemes off-pitch.. Lower ranges nasally and weak head voice... noticeably an individual who likes the song and wanting to sing trying to sing Larry Ramos but sound is very uninteresting lackluster, and has no established vocal comfort range. This got interesting however.  When I wasn't efforting, felt the music felt more confident, I blended during the crescendo and started fitting into the mix

example:  Lyrics:
crescendo into falsetto very good strong for a time

as a backing vocalist I finally sounded as though I had a part in this song.. NOT as a lead vocalist.. Not as a 2nd harmony either..as a strong falsetto.  As I felt comfortable getting loud, some edge started showing on falsetto...Again, must establish real vocal comfort range despite of whether or not it's suitable to what I WISH to sound like.. What I am, and what I wish are not one in the same.
Lyrics  "I can say I need you"   Sounded very good, but I tried getting creative during "but than I realize" when I instead of holding my A note in the chorus mix wished to switch to E doubling another harmony part throwing off the balance. At the end "Cherish is the word"  where Word sustains pitch waivered. voice sounded boring and weak. At some points of Association songs just as with never my love.. I seem to fit in, or are my imperfections being masked by pro harmony tweaked vocals ?

Nights in White Satin:   Moody blues

This was awful.  The song requires a real voice and emotion, not a moussy head-voice attempting to sing Justin Haywards melody line.. Comment to self "Get a voice, and than get back to me"..  Fiasco.  How many times are you going to adjust the pitch in this song to try to make something like this work ? It doesn't. The following part passed however

"Yes I love you, I love you"... Edge falsetto worked but pay attention to pitch and dynamics because lack of confidence was heard.  Know part, than sing !

Ruby Tuesday:  Stones

I need to ground myself in a real voice range of comfort, decide on what I can passably sing, and work from there..This has once again,  No personality, no heart... I'm a wannabe be clone vocalist that can't come near vocal timbre
of that which I'm trying to clone... Sounds lazy, and there's no strength or personality in voice.

Dog and Butterfly:  Heart

Dude seriously !  WTF are you trying to do,  It's obvious you like this song, STAY FAR AWAY FROM IT ! (ever think of becoming a butcher?)
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Summary Comment:

Rigid vocal quality without any grounding or familiarity as to where comfort zone is. Likely baritone with falsetto who wishes to be a tenor, or upper register rock vocalist.  It's not working. Notable embarassment with projecting any aspect of "real". reticent, and it shows..  Both technique and attitude need A LOT of work !
Can get by as a remote harmony in songs I like IE...

Commodores-  This is your life  chorus
Three Times a Lady- Chorus third harmony
Delfonic- Didn't I blow your mind this time -falsetto chorus works
Stylistics- 3rd harmony during chorus

CAN NOT sing lead vocals when not grounded in a range ! Psychologically not willing to settle for any area of "me" or "original" or "creative".. Instead I'm insisting on being a lead vocalist in areas I can't and shouldn't yet touch !

I am rigid, and it can be heard.  I am inhibited and that masks positive emotion and expression. I want only to sing songs I like, unfortuneately not songs that might be suitable.. I try running from my real voice and attempt to be a chamelion, while singing I actually think I am, but that is FAR from fact.. While classical might work for me (very clean voice) I don't enjoy classical, Singing will require hard diligent effort, and real coaching assuming I wish to consider myself a singer.. It's not natural for me..  I don't allow ME to sing. I don't like hearing ME sing currently since I don't sound like a singer I find tasteful.. I try becoming vocalists I like, hence fish out've water sounding lead vocalist. I don't pass as lead vocalist currently.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

SOOOOOO now that u know where ur problems r fix um and get to singin....always an excuse....

personally i thought u were a 10

But, I do LOVE singing !  and I don't stop... I give myself permission to like and do something I'm not good at.  That's the beauty of singing behind closed doors.. BUT, fantasy is not reality. Fantasy is one day I WILL be satisfied with my vocal quality as a singer.. It hasn't come yet. NOTHING about singing comes naturally for me ! Not in a genre I want to sing, and enjoy.  This is a struggle.  Nothing that I BELIEVE is worthy of putting on display.  My critique of me I'm reasonably certain is somewhat accurate.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hey Folks...  Been watchin' the thread so thought i'd step in and say hi. This type of thread has been discussed alot so it's good to see it finally come to fruition, though it will probably need to have it's own place in the forums eventually, if enough folks participate.

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

hey Nathan good to see you...Billy you are suchh a fluffer thank you for the comment dahlin

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Nathan !!  Welcome !!

(Vicki,  Haven't forgotten you, I'm having a conflict.. Reason is, I tend to be about as creative as a stopsign (I'm just not an innovative person, nor do I tap into creative aspects of music), So, What this means is as a cover musician I listen a certain way, BUT when somebody makes a song their own, part of my ear throws a tantrum assuming preference differs, but this DOES NOT mean it's not an excellent rendition and works perfectly !  so I've been trying to process this..  When somebody "makes something their own" that I'm not used to, or something I'd have personally done differently, I end up going "HUH" ..  Essentially wondering Is this not an excellent job because I'm not used to it, or IS there some technical issue I'm at conflict with such as certain areas of phrasing in this specific case. Ticket to Ride sounds very good, but there are a few things confusing me that I must sort out, since my stubborn ear has expectations that are different..   Give me a few more hours).  I have my limitations but I do wish to be able to transcend MY OWN aesthetic preferences/conditioning and be as objective as possible. It's a goal I have.  Critiquing means careful analysis, and what this means is I TOO must sort things out due to MY OWN limitations. It means ADMITTING I have them !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

honey I am quite happy to accept "it sucks dont lose your day job"

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

If I said that, or implied that, I'd be lying Vicki. What I stated was 100% honest, I'm not taking a blow because I feel "it sucks" at all.. I DO have limitations,  This is how *I* learn too..

Do you recall awhile back I stated that you and I have VERY different preferences for style Vicki ?  This is exactly what I was intimating.  *I'm the one* trying to filter thru an impasse assuming I can.  I'm attempting to listen beyond MY OWN bias, and I'm not going to add points or subtract points in lieu of my limitations.  Either I can critique this, or I can't.  I believe I can, yesterday however I didn't have a spare minute until late, and today was pretty hectic... I'm relistening now.. and I WILL be as honest as I can be.. It's not about what I like or dislike.. It's about whether or not I can critique something that's different. It's AT LEAST very good (if that's any consolation), If it wasn't very good, I'd have an easier time.

As I've mentioned in the past, the TOUGHEST critiques to give for me are the good subs ! Especially when my preferences are challenged with a new idea

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ticket to ride- Vicki


The song in general was excellent. Her blend with backing, level of emotion quite good.
The conflict I heard I'm going to unfortunately NOT own as my stubborn ear in this case, I won't state for certain there's something I'm not understanding however..  Here's what happened (IMHO).  This song has a strong even duple-meter rhythm, the piano backing MIGHT be able to work with counterpoint vocals but IMHO Vicki's pickup lyrics "I think", and timing on the first verse, in this particular case created a noticeable conflict with song meter. When utilizing off meter lyric pickups and phrasing it's tough to pull off. The smallest amount of jumping the gun, or hesitation poses a conflict for the listener (or at least me in this case).  "I think", COULD'VE worked, but not where it showed up as a pickup off-meter, IMHO. What I heard the first verse was lyrical phrasing running free-form disregarding song backing meter. I can't be certain this styling doesn't work in some cases however, to me it sounded off.  I might be incorrect. The Chorus "He's got a ticket to ride" was dead on however, this was as good as it can get IMHO... blend, emotion, dynamics and even yes... reverb were tasteful...  HOWEVER, I feel the reverb was a tad much during the verses but the chorus worked very well for me.  The use of the dissonant word and he don't "care" used twice worked for me but required me to listen a few times, and think out've "the box" so-to-speak since it didn't resolve in a traditional compositional manner, this DID work however !  Initially, I was expecting some resolution to the pitch, but realized it's not necessary for this to work VERY well.  

Vicki's last verse  "The boy that's driving me mad is going away" I felt had a noticeable sharp pitch on the "A" of away, besides that this song was extremely tastefully and well done.. My biggest problem is that *I* feel her firstmeasure pickup and phrasing conflicts with a strong duple meter backing, it's off tempo too noticeably.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

steven just tell the lady she sucks and move on.....that's what she did to me.....ll...  j/kkkkkkkkk altho i was very nice and polite to her.....but that's because i'm a nice guy, ask milo if u don't believe me...ok u better not ask her....who owes me money i'm sure they will tell u the truth

You're next !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Soul Man

Billy


When I listen to a song such as this, I listen to it LOUD.  I need to, otherwise ALL seems lost to me.  This was VERY well done.  I'd have liked to hear a *little bit* more vibrance and voice gravel in Billy's voice in this rendition. All else sounded very good to me. Even song tempo.  I feel if Billy had added a little more edge (gravel) to this particular song, it would've filled in VERY well at this tempo.. Since Billy is capable of strong vocal presence and amazing emotion and vocal power, this could've come across more exciting if Billy wished to make it more exciting.  In this particular song, I feel (similar to the song born to be wild) it's "Singer going all out" that makes it work. 100% must go into this song, knowing Billy is capable of MORE emotion, and pouring himself into his music,  I believe this could've been more vibrant.  The song was excellent, it could've been dynamite !
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Song-   Just a Matter of Time

This sounded professional, It's beyond my ability to critique. Everything sounded tastefully done in this song to me.  This is also the first time I've heard this song, I have no means of comparison. This shouldn't matter however assuming you are making this "your own" rendition. Taking that fact into consideration I was VERY impressed by your tasteful use of vibrato technique in this song, I've yet to hear a more tasteful use given song mood, absolutely spectacular use of dynamics and styling also excellent mix !  Fabulous job IMHO.. I can't say any more, or less. Kudos  :worship:  :worship:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You're no less of an expert than anyone else ! I have almost no ability in many styles of music, I'm sure there are many styles you are more familiar with, and qualify to Critique in.  Styles that I haven't a CLUE about.  If a person requests a critique they should welcome AS MANY different opinions as possible as to what might improve their song. There's A LOT of music out there,  none of us can Critique it ALL....  Naturally this is subjective and there's no ONE method to improve (given any one style).  A critique category can only work assuming enough people are willing to take the risk of critiquing, or daring to tell another how *they* feel the person can improve, and this should be independent of others opinions but always respected, it can also respectfully be disagreed with in some cases but that's up to individuals to decide, in my case I welcome disagreement with my critique because that's how I learn something too.

It's not a 2 minute process, true..Which is why being honest in attempting to help another is really more of an honor than anything else, it takes time. We might find this starts a "fad", and EVERYBODY wants a critique. What if others find out that the most respected, and BEST vocalists in Singer's Showcase can deal with the fact that they aren't perfect ?  God Forbid,  we might start something !!!!

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm requesting the moderators and respected members of Karaoke Scene address this issue in this particular thread assuming ANY of that happens here Suzanne. If a person requests a critique and can't deal with a "nicely given critique", or a person feels compelled to get a "dig" in using the guise of Critique I'm going to ask for help to nip that in the bud.  Those that are not willing to diligently try to HELP others and in turn receive help from others should NOT be participating in this thread. This is for those that would like help improving.  I've spoken with a member of the room recently, and I'm going to receive some coaching to enable me to get a concept of where to start off as a singer.  I've requested ABSOLUTE honesty. In time I too will be subbing assuming I see honesty. Personally (since like all else I have an ego) the LAST thing I want is to submit (knowing I'm currently a singer having a difficult time when realistically I KNOW my singing isn't even "average" ability yet) and be lied to by people even politely telling me "your much better than I assumed" because I DO want to believe I'm not a bad singer, and I MIGHT very well fall for fluff because emotionally I DO strive to be a VERY good singer. I can ONLY become a decent singer in an honest environment. It can't happen if I'm lied to. I need to be helped, and to earn my TRUE rank, I demand to know where I stand, fortunately currently I do, (I have received some help in the past in real but not by those experienced with singing) Well, unless you consider taking my microphone away "help". If the best I can be is a backing vocalist, I'll be more than happy being a decent backing vocalist. I'm content accepting I MIGHT not become an acceptable front singer EVER. I've accepted being backing for front musicians my whole life once I got into the pro-realm, it was my niche, and I'll always be content there. IF I can make it further that's icing on a cake.. BUT, I want to improve..  "JFF" doesn't exist for me because it's not ONLY for fun, It's also efforting to improve, yet I'm in no hurry either. I want to learn how to sing, and this requires a healthy environment. I can exist in an environment as a happy "3" rank singer,  I won't participate assuming I see lying however. I'm currently content being a 2 or 3 rank singer in private, it won't come back to haunt me !  For this reason I wish to take part in an HONEST process,my goal will be to one day become a 7 rank singer IF POSSIBLE in my favorite style, and this might NEVER be attainable.  I don't want to get set up to crash. I know where I stand, but I can get thrown off if those I trust lie to me, or hurt me, Heck, I take pride in my music, I'm vulnerable and I don't deny that.. This is why I won't participate in showcase.. because music is a VERY big and important part of my life. I WANT to learn to sing. I assume others have the same right to wish to improve their abilities. I respect those that wish to sub JFF, as those who sub for fun should respect the fact that nowhere within the definition of Karaoke is "Excellent singing ability" excluded, or "Singers stay out". Artists have a right to wish to improve, and that's a HEALTHY thing. We can not do it alone ! Much of my life has been an instrumentalist behind pro and pro-ability amateur vocalists. I respect singers, and I know my place as an accompanist. While I personal can't sing, I've directed and written arrangements for vocal groups, glee clubs, filled in for parts, and do recognize "good Pop" singing when I hear it. Having had exposure to it is ALL that qualifies me to take part in the process. I have no greater qualification than any here.  I just try hard because this is an area of interest and importance for me.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Thank you Steven I appreciate the time you took and also your opinions. I dont believe that Suzanne is correct in her assumptions that some will be offended. If those that are asking you to critique are doing so here and are coming here to see your results. You are not critiquing on the sub so there are no feelings hurt. Someone has to WANT to hear what you have to say and to ask first.
I for one appreciate the time you are taking...sometimes, becos I am not a musician and havent studied music in any form, I dont know what the fffffluffy hell you are talking about but I am interested enough in what you have to say to go look it up.
Keep on keeping on sir, I certainly appreciate you hugggs

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

You must be Billy for Milo to give you standing room luvs ya but ya fluffed me...there is no need

Steven is quite correct I came in far too late in the first verse

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."