Karaoke Forums

Sorry this is so long-winded - I will try to condense but provide as much info as required to get appropriate responses. I have worked in a 25-mile radius of my home doing karaoke shows for 12 years now. I have very, very good equipment, the knowledge to use it, and have kept very current with song choices. My binders are always up to date, I always provide slips. I have been in the PR business my entire life it seems (am in my fifth decade) so am not backward in coming forward when it comes to marketing my product. My S/O and I are both professional performers with tons of stage/band experience. In the last two years or so, this area has become saturated with what I call "krappyoke" - people who view karaoke only as a means to make some quick bucks.  Cheap, minimalist equipment including horrible mics, total disregard for mixing sound (or maybe they don't know sound should be mixed???), a hard drive loaded with 80,000 songs (= about an $80 grand investment to me - yah right), unreliability, etc., etc. The antithesis of my approach basically. My dilemma arises at this point: I am in the market for maybe 2 venues right  now. Obviously my approach to doing shows is radically different than the companies that have saturated this area. I do not want to approach marketing my show by slamming the others - a lot of bar owners have truly no idea what a GOOD show is as they have only ever listened to lousy shows.  Part of it is they don't realize the potential for a HUGE increase intheir revenues on karaoke night(s) by bringing in an established GOOD company.  WE KNOW that having 80,000 songs doesn't mean anything - there are perhaps 500 songs that get sung...WE KNOW as performers that good sound attracts good singers, which in turn leads to increased attendance instead of clients RUNNING when karaoke begins (have experienced this in some places recently). WE KNOW that establishments get what they pay for when they hire $100 a night shows. After six weeks or so, gee, "Karaoke doesn't work here" is the response.  Bad karaoke doesn't work anywhere and good karaoke will work pretty well wherever you put it....but how do I get this across to managers/proprieters - just wondering what others may do in this situation. I recognize the quality approach of members on this board and that is the only reason I am asking - seems like a lot of "old school" hosts/hosting companies with the same approach I have. Any approaches I may NOT have thought of? I appreciate the input!

I've been hosting karaoke shows since 91 in the Seattle area.  Where we used to be able to make 250-350 per night, the last few years due to the "krappioke" systems, you know those who don't adjust the sound or kick uninvited people off stage  LOL etc...club work is harder & harder to get any price for.  The last club show I did was 3 years ago & the OWNER (not the manager) were complaining about paying 150 per night (I had over 13K no duplicated  songs, good sound with subs & lights, hooked into all but 1 of the house tv's, set-up off the stage) & decided to go with a 75 per nighter (20K mass duplicates burned discs with massive graphic glitches, 1 blown speaker, no lights & didn't use any of the house tv's for audience, setup on the stage leaving about a space no bigger than the face of a dining room table to stand in).  They figured the crowds that I was bringing in would stay....DUH, they were my following & a large group of good singers/spenders that appreciated good sound & the new host wasn't it!  They went from $150-200 on Monday AND Tuesday to bringing in $750-1000 PER night after 2 weeks (verified by the manager) & the owner didn't think that was good enough and didn't have to pay as much to me.  Well after they made the switch, I took our "singers" back & they went back down to their 150-200 figure minus the 75 per night they had to pay the crap host.  They are almost out of business entirely now.  
I said screw it & went strictly private parties, don't even advertise, it's all word of mouth...usually will get 1 or 2 bookings for every party worked.  When I don't work, we get the group together & go out & find a decent show.

What part of Washington are you in?

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

We're in Snohomish/Everett/Lake Stevens. There are two perpetrators in this area that have all harddrive music, and one that has a second system with ONE (bad) speaker, cables that cause video to blink off and on, TERRIBLE books, use coasters for slips, and they hire totally inexperienced people to host - yet he has gigs...????? Don't get it. If I didn't enjoy the social aspects of it so much, I'd drag all my equipment to the end of the driveway and throw a "for sale" sign on it - when I see these really horrible shows, that is my gut reaction.  Oh, we also have a very large following of really excellent singers and they are loyal enough that when I do start another show, there will be a noticeable DRAIN at a few places around here. The places I have left do notice a HUGE drop in business but haven't yet figured out that it might have something to do with who they hire to replace us! DUH....

Karen, as someone who has been in this industry for over 17 years and seen it all, Karaoke is going thru a transition and hopefully will become what it started out to be, fun for everyone. The bad KJ's who figure they can hurt the market with their $75 rates are making many club owners angry and upset because the hosts and shows that they used to pay top dollar for, they really want back, but are angry at themselves for being greedy to save a few $$$ to make a few bucks. Stand your ground when you go into a club to apply for a job, have references, photos of your shows, your equipemnt, and show them your professionalizm in your presentation that will make them "Spend" more $$ to bring you into the room and get rid of the bad hosts. We need to bring back the glory days when Karaoke Shows had Hosts that commanded respect not only from the public, but from the club owners as well.
I know it may take a while, but Karaoke can make a comeback, with the new equipment and song selections, but it will be up to "Us" as the KJ's and businesses that we are, to promote and show our wares to the Clubs once again as the proud part of the MUsic Industry that we know we are, and prove we are worth every cent that we ask for. We can turn the tables and bring back Karaoke to a better paying more enjoyable job in the clubs if we all really want to.
We can start by advertising our businesses as just that, "Businesses." With good reputations and clientele we can rebuild the image and stature that Karaoke deserves. I wish you the best of luck with your Karaoke business....Mike V

I agree with most of what you are saying, although that doesn't matter too much since I'm not really a professional KJ.  But I don't always like it when the same good singers come up and sing the same old songs.  So if 500 songs only get sung by the best singers and that is what makes the money, you won't find me at that show.  I like a mix; people that sing different stuff and  are having fun.  I like to see ok singers get up there and do their thing and have a good time and sing something besides Frank Sinatra or Elvis for the 50th time.

I do a few small shows for friends with fairly crappy stuff, so I am coming at this as a customer with the perspective of somebody who has seen people have a real good time singing different songs and not all the best of singers: at my little shows and at big-time operations.  They are fun, but maybe they don't make the owners the money, so maybe you are right, but I LIKE the some of the stuff you say doesn't make $$$$ (the two things I mentioned, ok singers and different song choices), so if things revert back to the way you say they need to be in those two ways, you won't see me at that karaoke venue.

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

Hey Ham, thanks for your response. Let me clarify a few things, though - seems like I didn't explain as much as I needed to first time around! The reference I make to 500 songs - that is an industry thing, not my idea - I have 15,000+ songs, incredible variety from Tenacious D to Lefty Frizzell and every artist in between. I have every level of singer that comes to my shows, from pro quality to the very wet-behind-the-ears neophyte who has never heard their voice over a mic. Everyone is welcome...I often have discussions with the excellent singers about how important it is that we not intimidate the beginners. Certain venues attract newer singers, and it is often with my constant urging that they get up and sing finally. That is how we create new business. I have made it a goal to make every single person who walks in feel very comfortable and constantly mention that people should SING THE SONGS THEY WANT TO SING! I guess what I'm looking for from other KJs and established co's is a new angle - without berating krappyoke companies.  I appreciate your input, however!

It's the same here.  The illegal hard drives (bought pre-loaded off of ebay or downloads off trading channels) & crap equipment have driven the market to the ground here as well - most clubs won't even pay more than $100 & that's GOOD anymore.  I sold off my extra systems because I couldn't get them decent paying gigs.  I run 7 nights out of the Thunderbird in Tacoma since 92, if that falls through, i'll hang it up entirely.  Looking for a regular day job now as we speak.
Tried advertising in the Northwest Karaoke guide, didn't really generate much business - actually get more from my website.  Did the Evergreen Idol/Puyallup fair contests - which brought in great crowds, but being contests, the singers don't stay, they are 'contest hoppers'.

I don't think the bars care about the good equipment/ original selections anymore, they care how cheap they can get away with & as long as the seats are filled they aren't going to pay more - it seems.

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Karen : I understand and feel your pain , unfortunately for a BAR OWNERs their only concern is the profit in the register at  the end of the night.  GOOD KJ's will have to re-invent the GOOD SHOW somehow and present it to potential clients etc.
As soon as you say KARAOKE  you will be compared by how much you charge and not how GOOD or bad  your show really is.  So my belief is Good Hosts will have to OFFER more than just a good library and good sound to earn their worth.
Of course soliciting MORE upscale and BIGGER venues is a good idea also.

Couple of ideas
Find out which booking agent is handling the top local bands and approach them for your SHOW.  a little representation may help

Somehow make your show different -
Give-Aways
recordings
videos of singers
a WEB SITE with pics of singers and videos
2 hosts vs 1
partner with a local BEER distr
contests
raffles
start at 7PM vs later ?
maybe offer an OPEN MIC along with your karaoke show
get some up and coming musicians to sign on
Offer to pay for your own advertising (assuming you  get paid your price to host)
Offer a discount rate for a few weeks so they can see your DIFFERENCE from the $100 host

Good luck !

Wow! Appreciate all your suggestions. I do a lot of them now but will reevaluate. Just re-did my marketing today with a "mission statement" at the top. Printed on shiny color paper, etc., etc. Hopefully this cream will float to the top! Thanks again for all your ideas. kk