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Many people claim that Blondie did the first real rap song. I say it was Bob Dylan with "Subteranean Homesick Blues".
Whats your opinion?

ps, Steve let rip with one of your monster posts,lol

Don't mean to let you down bro,  but this won't be long.  First song I thought of was Rapture by Blondie..

I'm going to go listen to Dylans song now though,  don't recall that one offhand.

Remember our talk WAY back.  You mentioned "Crossover styles" when we were discussing first Raggae song in the US ?  I thought it was Desmond Deckers 1966 "The Israelites"  btw  RIP Desmond..  He passed on since that discussion.  I liked the guy's work too !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You're probably correct BJC..

For those that aren't familiar with the Dylan song you can find it on You Tube.

Hey Big Jimmy,  I just thought of another possibility,  yet not sure if this was earlier.. How about Alan Shermans "Shake Hands with your Uncle Max" Off've "My Son the Folk Singer".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

But, during those time Bob Dylan can't sing yet; so he talked over the mic. Now they call it rap.





Well he still can't now.....

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Funny thing is, Dylan CAN sing when he wants to.  He just decided somewhere along the line that his "signature style" would be whining and howling somewhere around the general key.  When he's doing his work with Roger McGuinn on the Mr Tambourine Album, he actually does sing on key while singing with The Byrds.  His lyrics, and their musicianship was a great combo IMHO.  He really is a great lyricist,  I'm tempted to say musician too but I really never took to his singing style...

He's lyrics are brilliant.  I don't know if he couldn't sing well,  or if he couldn't stay sober long enough to focus on pitch.  Probably made a fortune off've being intoxicated.  I think the first few months after hearing Dylan initially,  I was certain he had cerebral palsy

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Try singing subteranean homesick blues. I mastered it only after memerizing most of it.

Steve, I have desmonds israelites on cd. Its one of my favorite songs even though i'm not jewish although i did date an israeli girl from 97-98 named "Jifat". The name means beautiful sunrise or something like that. After i found out she was crazy we broke up but she added a twist.

I dumped her and a few months later she lured me to her place for sex so she could later dump me. I should write a book.

Actually,  Was he with Toot's and the Maytals  too ?   Was "My Boy Lillipop" also Jamaican ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I don't know if I would call Blondie the first rap song. If you mean by style, she had the first HIT of rap type of song. If you are talking about the true definition of the rap, I think the rap comes from the inner city youths, who were already doing the rap before Blondie came out with it, although none of them had a hit.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Anyone I know will tell you the 1st true rap song the know was Sugar Hill Gang - Rappers Delight.

The music orignated in NY in the 70's when breaks of songs where isolated and rhymed over by MC's. Rappers Delight was sampled for Chic - Good Times.
All the orignal rap music breakbeat djing. It was until the early 80's that the style truely evolved from the streets to the pro recording studios.

Kurtis Blow was the 1st rap artist signed to a major record lable. His song the Breaks was a hit that came out shortly after Rappers Delight.

Many other people consider the Fatback Back - King Tim III the very first rap single.

One other single that was very close in this Time frame was Grandmaster Flash - Super Rappin.

Rap means talk, and one that comes to mind is "Big Bad John"......many others where they speak rather than sing.....goes back to the beginning of vocals..... .......Stooges had several songs in some of their shorts, where they rapped.......Rap goes back to the begining of time......somebody always wants to take credit for something that's been around for ever......

I agree with Sugar Hill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" being what I thought of as the first real "rap" song. They brought to mainstream what had been happening in the streets and clubs but never grabbed on by the controlled audio media!

Perhaps in a context of, "Hey,  what's the rap", but assuming that carries over to what is considered "a song",  Rocky Racoon, and Alices Restaurant could also fall under "rap".  So it can't just mean talk, OR does it ?

Again,  we need a definition (assuming one exists) of "Rap".   Is it just a style where lyrics are spoken in either prose or poetic form to a songs repetitious rhythmic structure ?  Or MUST it be relevent in content to "inner city" lifestyle solely, and all else precludes "rap" ?

We need a definition or else how can we know if Dylan COULD'VE been "rapping" ?
I don't know what rap means.  I know there's "free rap", and some other type of rap.

Let me aks <--(pun) yo this question

What about this would not be rap ?

Writer: Harry Nilsson
Publisher: EMI Blackwood Music
Recorded: June, 1971
Producer: Richard Perry



How about the song "Fame" by David Bowie ?

.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I say it was Tex Ritter Bol Weevil Rap is nothing new They have been rapping around camp fires since time beginning  They were rapping in vaudeville and telling stories
The only singing in this rap We gotta have a home gotta have a home

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My question is without an actual definition of what constitutes "rap music",  what's to say Rap is just spoken and doesn't take into account melodic content ?

Don't worry Mama, and Just a friend have choruses that are melodically sound (according to some).   So,  arguably where does music become rap ?  Is it composition,  is it content ?  is it style ?

What makes "Get Together" by the Youngbloods in it's message and composition not a rap song ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You can settle on a definition of what constitutes "rap" and what doesn't, but you're going to be making an artificial distinction between "rap" and "not rap."  I mean, what was the first "rock and roll" song, as distinguished from, say, rhythm and blues?

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

So Rap must fall into R&B, and can't be Rock and Roll..  Sort've like the Stylistics were 70's ballad, and R&B, but they weren't Rock and Roll ?  Or was rap the beginning of the "Hip Hop" Culture ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_hip_hop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool_Herc

read about this a couple months ago....looks like liquidye has it if the links are correct. depends on your definiton of rap though. probably somebody did it unknown at some block party somewhere and sugarhill gang and others saw the magic and marketability in it to get it mainstream.

sucka mcs should call me sire! I won't stop postin 'till i desire!

gimme respect

hey anybody remember "boogy down bronx" from the early 80s? only me and my brother (usually) remember that one.

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

a little more from WIKI in a different article

The roots of hip hop are found in West African and African-American music. The griots of West Africa are a group of traveling singers and poets, whose musical style is reminiscent of hip hop. Within New York City, griot-like performances of poetry and music by artists such as The Last Poets and Jalal Mansur Nuriddin had a great impact on the post-civil rights era culture of the 1960's and 1970's. Hip hop arose during the 1970s when block parties became common in New York City, especially the Bronx. Block parties were usually accompanied by music, especially funk and soul music. The early DJs at block parties began isolating the percussion breaks to hit songs, realizing that these were the most dance-able and entertaining parts; this technique was then common in Jamaica (see dub music) and had spread via the substantial Jamaican immigrant community in New York City, especially the "godfather" of hip hop, DJ Kool Herc. Dub had arisen in Jamaica due to the influence of American sailors and radio stations playing R&B. Large sound systems were set up to accommodate poor Jamaicans, who couldn't afford to buy records, and dub developed at the sound systems (refers to both the system and the parties that evolved around them).

Herc was one of the most popular DJs in early 70s New York, and he quickly switched from using reggae records to funk, rock and, later, disco, since the New York audience did not particularly like reggae. Because the percussive breaks were generally short, Herc and other DJs began extending them using an audio mixer and two records. Mixing and scratching techniques eventually developed along with the breaks. (The same techniques contributed to the popularization of remixes.) Later DJs such as Grandmaster Flash refined and developed the use of breakbeats, including cutting.[citation needed] As in dub, performers began speaking while the music played; these were originally called MCs; Herc focused primarily on DJing, and began working with two MCs, Coke La Rock and Clark Kent—this was the first emcee crew, Kool Herc & the Herculoids. Originally, these early rappers focused on introducing themselves and others in the audience (the origin of the still common practice of "shouting out" on hip hop records). These early performers often emceed for hours at a time, with some improvisation and a simple four-count beat, along with a basic chorus to allow the performer to gather his thoughts (such as "one, two, three, y'all, to the beat, y'all"). Later, the MCs grew more varied in their vocal and rhythmic approach, incorporating brief rhymes, often with a sexual or scatological theme, in an effort at differentiating themselves and entertaining the audience. These early raps incorporated similar rhyming lyrics from African American culture (see roots of hip hop music), such as the dozens. While Kool Herc & the Herculoids were the first hip hoppers to gain major fame in New York, more emcee teams quickly sprouted up. Frequently, these were collaborations between former gang members, such as Afrikaa Bambaataa's Universal Zulu Nation (now a large, international organization). Melle Mel, a rapper/lyricist with The Furious Five is often credited with being the first rap lyricist to call himself an "MC."[2] During the early 1970s, breakdancing arose during block parties, as b-boys and b-girls got in front of the audience to dance in a distinctive, frenetic style. The style was documented for release to a world wide audience for the first time in Beat Street.

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

Probably when she found out your name wasn't really "Big Jimmy Cohen".
BJC tried to impress her by using words such as Shalom, Nebbish, and Shtoonk when she was around to make her think he was jewish so he could score  LOL



Yeah,  BJC pulled the old "KJ Izzy Rosenkrantz" bit after a two month dry-spell and bought a Yarmulke and sideburns so he could score again.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Most people credit the first rap song as being "Rappers Delight" by the sugarhill gang. It was definitely the first song that was labeled"rap" to make it. It came out in Sept. 1979 and hit #36 on the pop charts, and #4 on the R&B charts. It as the firts rap song to go gold and was also the first song to be exclusively offered as a 12inch( no 7 inch was made) This song inspired Blondies 1980 Hit Rapture. Rappers Delight was sampled over the Croup "Chic's" melody for the song "Good Times" But, however there were 2 other songs that barely beat "Rappers Delight" to the press. A group called "Fatback" had a single called "you're my candy sweet" the B side had a song called "King Tim III" it was a rap song that surprised everyone with it's popularity. A man named Kurtis Blow also released a song called "The Breaks" 2 weeks before Rappers delight= it had marginal success but not even in the same league as "Rappers delight" The Bar Kays also has a song that came out the same week as Blows tune...I can't remember the name...but again- none had the success of Rapper delight. The Jamaicans had a dance technique called "toasting" in the mid to late 70's that was a predecessor of rap...but I guess when it boils down to it...the first rap song should be the one that actually did well on the charts and that would definitely be "Rappers Delight" ...I still have the vinyl copies of "Rappers Delight". "The Breaks" "Fat Back" and the "the Barkays" who would've thought it would become it's own genre???

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