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Yeah,  I managed to get thru years of college,  but I still bombed in certain areas.... SO WTF is with this stuff ?  Why's it so tough ?  Is it capacity to memorize abstract prinicples ???   Maybe the 9th grade kick to my head from that horse ?  Or the 2nd grade science experiment when I got dropped off've the Empire State building upside down to see if it really takes 8 seconds freefall to hit the ground when dropped from 1000 feet ?

Why the heck can't I pass an Algebra course even today ?   Yeah,  I might've been a messed up kid that never really learned decimal and ratio math but this stuff is STILL friggin tough..  What's with this $hit.  I mean really,  shouldn't EVERYONE with an IQ over let's say 120 be able to grasp Algebra ?

I mean,  this is REALLY embarassing,  oh yeah... and THAN of course there's Chemistry.. orbitals, covalent bonding, electronic configuration... what's with this 1S2- 2S3-3D-$hit. Is there some correlation between those of us that take about 3 months to memorize simple lyrics.

They say musicians are usually decent at mathematics, but I'm still struggling when I attempt to understand physical science principles, and object sciences, such as wind resistence, water pressure (when I became interested in Tsunami physics). OK Eben fess up,  How do you engineers absorb this degree of quantitative math ?
Another thought is ADHD that wasn't diagnosed in those days but still,  when you think about it shouldn't I be able to grasp Algebra today ?  Or do we develop blocks that REALLY prevent us from absorbing certain things based upon past negative experience..  OR,  is this stuff actually THAT tough ?

Incidently,  I wondered if I had a knack that mechanical and electrical engineers might not have musically..  My conclusion having taught music to many adults in fields of math and science is NO...  These individuals have picked up the concept of intervals and scale as well as mode technique in music VERY fact when they wish to take the time, they can be excellent musicians in most cases assuming they wish to focus in this area.. Many are !

What made me think about this, is that I was pondering (this past hour) teenagers and intellect...   These kids are absorbing material I SERIOUSLY doubt I could absorb at this stage in life...  In terms of "Intellect", kids are VERY VERY smart  :shock:    I think the sage that life has enabled me to see is that I just don't know that much


What's with this stuff ?    Why do they need to mess up the numbers by adding letters  :(

x4+3x3+6x2 + 4x + 2= a(x)(x2 + 2x + 1) + r(x)

(trying to figure out which stuff can be cancelled out)

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I did not fair well with algebra either Steven.  Strange though, my over all math skills are far better now than when I was in school.  I have to admit, I haven't come across anything yet in my work where I needed any algebra.  At least I don't think I have.

What almost two years I was in college I had no math. (majored in Radio, TV broadcasting and minoring in Journalism)  Yea, Watergate had many of wanting to venture into news.  Then I saw one, how hard it was for kids who had parents who owned radio & tv stations to get a job; and two, I didn't like the way news reporting had turned around.  You had to learn to twist the news and ask stupid questions.  LMAO

From there into the fire service by way of some factory work.  All just using basic math thank God.
The deepest I spent any time analyzing "math" was many years ago sitting around a campfire with some fellow classmates discussing the end of time.  Everyone had a different opinion.  Being somewhat of a musician, my answer to the end of time was when the last song gets written. ???????  OK, here goes....any of us with any age knows that quite often one song resembles another.  And Einstein tells us that math answers almost all;  if you take the numbers 1,2,3, you can have 1,2.3. 1,3,2, 2,1,3, etc.  About 6 different variations.

So I take that same math and figure the piano has 88 keys.  Now I know the number of possibles combinations is astronomical.  However, there will be a point where all possible combinations will have been played.  That's when I surmise the "Man Upstairs" will say, "And now, for our last verse."

Kelly - Who thinks he's had enough coffee for the day.  Time to get cleaned up and go host a show.

Kelly,  I assume for radio broadcasting you needed to have at least basic physics under your belt, no ?      I believe (although not certain) that in our day they wanted even broadcasters to understand the basics of station engineering, and what was involved with transmitting from a more detailed perspective...

I believe, not sure that you might essentially be stating

Finite= Mans Understanding
Infinity= Western concept of Deity ?


You gave me an idea for another discussion  :)   Actually a decent discussion, no debate...  Since I studied Philosophy I've wondered "What is time"...(as well as just about everything else of course )


Now I might be wrong, but during past discussions with those grounded in principles needed for Metaphysics (which is heavily math and science oriented since it involves Epistemology,  Ontology, I think even Cosmology which is about as profound as things can get).. A few that were physicists mentioned to me (during my oogling about what they can figure out that I can't) that Science and Math is inductive (basically man created languages based on what we do know, to attempt to communicate that which we can't yet figure out),  but just like everything else when it gets into existence, or meaning, and what *time* actually is we measure it by interval (which to some just is an aspect of memory) All theory we currently have crashes into a wall at some point, and dead ends..   Did you watch Steven Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" ?   I believe he states there's no mathematical equation that can take into account past, present, and future, he gives an interesting example of entropy too.. Showing certain things aren't prone to logic and reverse concepts (meaning the coffee cup falls off the table and breaks,  but the process can't reverse).. So my confusion becomes how can life and death BOTH be actual states ?   Life is finite,  Death is Infinite, and I can't comprehend how infinite can exist, but I also can't comprehend a beginning or end of a life-cycle. OR,  am I confusing something here... Because to me TIME is just a function of memory, so it gets into "what is real", and from what perspective I suppose.  I never studied much about Einsteins theories, BUT... Didn't Einstein also end up throwing up his arms and state... "Heck,  there must be a God?".. Meaning,  SOMETHING had to cause what is, something must have created what I observe ?

I think the difference possibly in what I think might be the case is,  Math can explain most of what we *currently* understand, although the explanation it provides might be as real as rhetoric, Still math itself can't show many unknowns, which may or may not be "Only God knows" concepts.  I feel because all measuring tools man created fall into the subject of "Math". Math is the language we use to try to explain more math related concepts,  but it's still limited because it's (inductive) man created and it can't explain that which we don't already know, recognise, and what it shows isn't necessarily fact because math can also serve as a means to throw us off-track when used in certain applications such as statistics, and theories which are soon disproved, and we've heard math can prove lies too. Math is basically just a language we use to communicate that which we already know.  If math can't communicate the otherwise totally abstract concept in hopes of enabling man to communicate the concept due to it's level of abstraction, we still struggle for another name for the temporary means we use in hopes of finding an answer.  Such as "Metaphysics"..  Which is an area that assumes in time math and science will uncover such mysteries.. Jian insists that Metaphysics isn't science,  and I suppose it's not, but just western philosophy because it can't become science until it's uncovered scientifically I suppose.

JMCHO

(confused honest opinion)

You might be absolutely correct,  If we can't understand it using math, and the current tools we can measure with, and communicate with,  it *MIGHT* be in the hands of the guy upstairs, or totally foreign to anything we can EVER comprehend and I'm sure many scientists would freak out if they were shown that "You folks aren't going to be able to figure this out because there IS a God, and he's VERY smart and you're just limited critters", of course instead many say,  "Man freaked when he couldn't find answers due to the existentialistc anxiety he experienced feeling there might not be any meaning to life so man at that point created the concept of God due to the need to explain it anyway."

Thinking about this gets difficult because math can also serve to keep us boxed in, we created it as a means to explain certain concepts,  but how much does it really explain ?  vs  limit.  Is it much more than another man-created language to communicate ?  Just because we can show it mathematically doesn't mean it can't be disproven if not now,  later on. Scientists have pretty much stated that there's no math, or science that really gets much beyond the dead-end in this particular type area than those of us without that depth and theoretical-type ability.  It doesn't yet help us in this area.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

One interesting thing about tempered instruments such as a keyboard Kelly..  This might sound strange,  but you CAN'T accurately tune a piano using "math".   Try tuning a piano using the circle of 5ths ?  Both extremes of the piano will sound very out've tune..  The tuners ear must tweak and approximate certain intervals that sound wrong to the human ear.

The concert violinist similarly plays ascending and descending scales tweaking fingering slightly different on the 3rd and 7th of the scales to fool the ear. Especially on the natural and harmonic minor scales.

Knew this piano tuner who was a very good tuner,  he had to retire as he got older because he lost the ability to hear certain frequency ranges.  He tried tuning using a strobe but it didn't work. Piano tuning just using a strobe tuning device doesn't work.  You can't tune a piano with an oscilloscope alone and have it sound in tune.  The process requires compensation that only the human ear can make. I don't think a piano can be accurately tuned over the whole range by anything but the human ear.  The extremes will be WAY out've tune. The lesser range of a guitar and bass of course are VERY different.  It's best to always use a tuning device.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, It's late. I have just gotten in from my show and saw your post.  MY GOD STEVEN!  Open your door!  There's a real world out there!  

 LMAO  LMAO

Seriously, No, I didn't see Steven Hawkings program.  But I have his book.  It is very DEEP.  And yes, Einstein did eventually make the comment, something to the fact that the universe was too perfect to have just happened on it's own.  And that at some point, a "supreme being" was the best answer to the equation.  

I personally have felt that science and religion (or better yet God) can both coexists and compliment each other very well.  I think we always try to "lean" on math to prove whatever it is we are looking for, because we can see it "on paper."  No pun intended, but it "adds up."  It's religion, and the supernatural that we don't have the "formula" for.  And believe me the supernatural or "ghosts" if you will DO exists. Many years ago I had my dealings with one.  Even to the point of going back to the house years later and interviewing other people who described much of what I encountered to prove to myself it wasn't in my imagination.  It didn't add up on paper, but it was real.

....have no Idea where I'm going with this.  Best i turn in.  Later.  LMAO

I know,  but it'll never find me here 

I think many things exist that we just can't understand Kelly.


ADDED IN 4:45 PM..

Because I noticed you happen to be here Kelly (I was just posting about my helicopter ).   Considering we don't UNDERSTAND our own existence, although we struggle to make it logical,  how much DO we really "understand" ?  When you think about it "I think therefore I am",  doesn't say much.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".