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President Regan made his famous speech in 1987 "Tear down this wall..." Now common sense will tell you that that speech didn't cause the wall to come down 2 years later.  Many historians will in fact say that the arms race is what actually destroyed the old USSR. And the Ultimate removal of the Berlin Wall.  We outspent them.  And that began WAY back in 53' with Truman.
To try and say that anything that happens has to be in a certain time frame is crazy.  Once again, answers to many present day questions have to involve that which has already taken place.  Once has to understand and know a certain amount of the past to predict the future.

Kelly

The Berlin wall was only a symbol of the cold war Churchill's iron curtain speech encouraged Truman' doctrine and Marshall plan is argued by historians the main catalyst of the cold war. It took many presidents and efforts by Americans to win the cold war including winning the nuclear arms race. The president and my commander-in-chief who I will love forever (now call me a liberal hater) John F Kennedy played probably the most part in the victory.


I saw the wall first hand in '64 and wept..

Why was it torn down? The will of the east germans

Why the Berlin Wall was taken down?

At 06.53 pm on November 9, 1989 a member of the new East German government was asked at a press conference when the new East German travel law comes into force.
He answered: "Well, as far as I can see, ... straightaway, immediately."
Thousands of East Berliners  went to the border crossings. At Bornholmer Strasse the people demanded to open the border and at 10.30 pm the border was opened there.
That moment meant the end of the Berlin Wall.
Soon other border crossing points opened the gates to the West
In that night the deadly border was opened by East Germans peacefully.

And we all wept!!!!

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I have always thought it eriee.  11/9........to 9/11.  11/9 should be much more celebrated.

Kelly

I did'nt read through every part of this post- but I live in California and stats say that in 20 years this state will be 80% mexican. MOst of whom don't pay taxes. They come across the border and give birth on US soil so that the hospitals have to take care of them and they qualify for benefits. It it any wonder that "medical costs" and the number one reason for bankruptcy in this state?? I know I'm from a place where tree huggers abound- but if you're gonna build a wall...make is a fence. An ELECTRIC fence. They would think twice about crossing if they got zapped a few times. Have any of you seen the red tape you have to go through to work in mexico??? It is unbelieveable! They are VERY particular about who comes in and even more so about who can come in and take money out! Yet they encourage by not discouraging mexican citizens from coming here. My biggest problem is that people used to come here to become Americans- meaning they left behind their allegiance to the country they were born in---now they come here to take advantage of the american system and have no desire to actually become a citizen. Put up some chicken wire and run a current through it. It's cheap and effective and you'll know any time the current is broken exactly where to look to fix it. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm sick of being a minority in my own damn state!

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Dangit, Steven, for the last time..... quit following me 'round town!!



Paula, while I applaud you for saying your piece, and agree with most of what you stated... beware getting called a racist with no facts. That's the exact reason I ended MY discussion here.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Please keep this on topic !  I was explaining that ideally your fine (@$%&#!) Immigrating past my window should be illegal !   You see,  this had NO bearing on my own values  :angry:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

... I've been called worse than a racist...if saying that I resent people from other countries who come here to take advantage of our lifestyle and liberties while lacking the desire to also become a citizen makes me a racist...then I am the biggest biggot, racist pig that ever breathed. My biggest pet peeve in life is people from other countries who come here to escape the unbearable living conditions in their native land...then have the GALL to complain about this country. If it sucks so bad- get the HELL OUT! and go beyotch about it where you came from...oh wait...they can't do that....they'd be EXECUTED for voicing their opinion in their native land. Doesn't that burn you up???? I don't hate immigrants....just immigrants that don't want to be citizens...that means learning our laws, paying taxes, learning ENGLISH, and being an "American" ...I really hate the terms "African American" Asian American" "latin American"...etc....if you are AMERICAN-- that should be enough. And you should be grateful that you are lucky enough to live somewhere like this and restrain yourself from nit picking the small negatives.

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Are you trying to insult this Scot-Irish-Apache-American?  LMAO  LOL  LOL

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I resent "people" within our country taking advantage of our life-style and liberties while lacking the desire to also contribute to being an "American Citizen" despite where they were born and raised.


Just a thought

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Heck no !  The other 3/4 is exonerated by the Native American 1/4.  You see,  we passionate conservatives aint all bad

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[highlight=blue]I resent "people" within our country taking advantage of our life-style and liberties while lacking the desire to also contribute to being an "American Citizen" despite where they were born and raised. [/highlight]
Um....yeah.....that's what I was saying. Ok so you worded it a bit better...still makes the same point.  :whistle:

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Depends on context.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

... I guess it also depends on how adverse you are to being called racist As I said....I've been called worse....probably with more valid reason so .......

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Good point woman !    LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Hey Charmin,  what are you wearing ?







Unfortuneately (and this likely pertains to nobody in here) BUT,  "certain" slips where people use the guise of "I hate being overly PC" aren't always subtle.  Here's an example,  when the mindset spoken or unspoken denies genuinely good people with hard working ethics, or those that MIGHT be as productive as many of our ancestors the right to enter this country, likely because they are stereotyped as "one of them on the other side of the wall", hence stigmatized.  It's not just what people are referred to as, it's the mindset that at times accompanies and actually denies them certain rights they MIGHT otherwise be entitled to.

"The Mexicans"  are people too just like we are.  Let's try to NEVER pinpoint a different ethnicity for our countries problems that must be resolved internally, considering the oppt given to our ancestors enabling us to be "Americans" even though times were different.  Hence, at times the need for extreme sensitivity given certain contexts.

Remember the topic  "Building a wall to keep them from entering our country illegally".  This does not mean THEY aren't mostly good hardworking people.  What IMHO this means is that we have a system that needs serious revision, but THEY are only attempting to do that which others before them wished to do,  make a life for themselves, and like many before them become Americans HOWEVER it takes for them to do it given their limited means.

Again this refers to NOTHING that has transpired during this discussion AFAIC.  What I am stating is what happens in MOST conversations where there are AT LEAST two sides viewing a topic that often has diametrically opposing outcomes for at least two of the differing perspectives.

During immigration WW2

Those that didn't get into the US (via legal means or Ellis Island) were sent back to europe at the expense of the ship.  What happened when they got back to europe ?  They were executed by the Hitler regime.  At times because they had "lice", poor eye-sight, and diseases in a pre-penicillan period of time that although communicable, the result of what was not ALWAYS fair decision in Ellis island after the difficult trip over, enabled some to thrive, and as a result some of us to be here today,  and others to go home to die.

What benefitted the US at that time in the opinion of some, was the death of some others. While true,  I know no system is perfect, still~
These aren't "light" issues.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I am not going to repeat myself since we have beaten it to death. I am going to only repeat one thing here. What is the main reason why people don't like the illegal aliens? Is it because of personal reasons or economic reasons? If it's economic reasons, do you have any proof that justify it? If you don't have proof of overall economic effects being negative by having the "visitors", then it would have to be personal.

That's all I have to say. Show me the numbers.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

numbers, scnumbers. (why is that song "oranges" going in my head from Witchypoo from H.R. Puffnstuff??)

I have the PERSONAL story that I gave... where I was not able to even be CONSIDERED for a job because of a plethora of applicants that are from another country that will work for next to nothing.

I've give facts, that nobody disputed about in Oregon, where illegals are given drivers licenses... where with that id they can apply and get state benefits, and seem to find loopholes to get Federal benefits.

Yet someone who is NOT directly affected continues to throw keroscene on the fire of those that HAVE BEEN directly affected.

This has been a very long and at times heated discussion and other than my thoughts way back on page one, I have been a silent observer. I shall let my votes do my talking in the up coming elections both in  state and national elections. I have emailed my representatives regarding their stance on illegal immigration and surprisingly I have received replies. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one . I hope all out there are doing the same, it apparently can do some good as one of my representatives has changed how she has voted on amnesty( I mean comprehensive reform). Let them know that if they don't support you, you don't support them, it may make a difference. In this day and age we have easy access to what are representatives are up to, it is easy to see how they vote on issues, keep your eye on them. Let them know you're watching and they will be held accountable. Just my thoughts.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I hate political debate; it divide members into 2 camps for ever point debated. Nobody is going to win.

I just wonder if this is the right forum for such debate......

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

we've created a whole "off topic" forum to talk about anything not karaoke related... seems to me that if members of a like mind want to talk about anything that falls into that category, this is the one to do it on!

Fair enough...... go on

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott