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For Steven:

[align=center]The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" [/align]

Thought your point was so relevant I had to put up the entire poem.  This stands at the base of the Statue of Liberty and is a shining example that all wishing to be free are welcome.

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

What I have to say may ruffle some feathers... so be it, I didn't start this!

why should we U.S. citizens think that our country should be any different than any other country? I don't have any stastistics, but it's darn certain that if you were to sneak across the borders to ANY country and they find you out, either trying to work there, or live there, they'll deport you. In some cases, throw your buttsky in a prison. Sometimes without the benefit of a trial.

I have NO problems with immigration. I have two very good friends that brought their foreign wives over here. It took them three YEARS to enter this country to follow federal guildelines... they didn't cross a border and try to live here first like many of the 12 million or so ILLEGAL folks that are here. Mexican, Canadian, Iranian, whatever. YES, the majority are Mexican illegal immigrants.

I have zero problems if they want to live here and go through the steps to become citizens. Even apply for green card status just to work here and NOT be citizens. If they want to pay taxes... if they want to pay for the services that are just bestowed to these people. There are jobs I've been turned down for BECAUSE I can't speak Spanish! Yet these same companies will hire NON-English speaking people, usually Spanish speaking, and slowly WORK with them to learn what broken English they pick up. In most cases, this proves to be quite impossible, so these SAME companies will hire Spanish speaking translators and absorb the higher cost of labor that way.

I too am tired of our weak spined government that bends over backwards and changes are made to our federal and state documents for this ONE MINORTY. Nothing is done for the Russian immigrants (LEGAL ONES AT THAT), Phillipine, Korean, Chinese, French, Swedish, etc that can't speak or write our language.

They are told to LEARN and they DO.

No one spoke English here until the land was TAKEN by the Europeans, so what right do ANY of us have to say our citizens must speak english?  It's a bit hypocritical don't you think? I think the only people with a right to demand ANYONE speak a certain language would be the people who were here naturally.... a.k.a not you or me.

And I'm sure that if China, France, or Korea were our next door neighbors then they'd be the dominate immigrant.  As is, it's Mexico.

And why should the US be any different?  Because we are suppose to be BETTER!  People in foreign countries also stone people to death for lieing and cut off their hands for stealing... just because your friend jumps off a bridge doesn't mean you have to do it as well.  Do you really want to see America emulate the countries that throw "buttskys" in prision without a trial?

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

I don't mean to offend anyone and i'm really not even stating an opinion, i'm just pointing out a fact from our history.

I don't have a lot to say other than right is right and wrong is wrong. There are legal ways to become an American, I have an Aunt that immigrated from Japan many years ago, I remember her taking classes and working very hard to get her citizenship, I also remember how proud she was when after all the hard work she attained her dream and was naturalized.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snpim1.htm


The  above link will explain how a vast majority of our ancestors really got here, particularly the third paragraph where it mentioned that many were sent back to the port of origin at the  expense of the ship line that brought them here if they did not meet certain criteria. Hmmmm criteria, interesting concept.
So yes indeed there is a plaque That read " Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses longing to be free" and in fine print it said " if they meet the criteria.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

   Theodore Roosevelt,  1911  

Kelly

Interesting....

"It is difficult to make our condition better by the best law, but it is easy enough to ruin it by bad laws." - Theodore Roosevelt

"When I was a boy, the Sioux owned the world. The sun rose and set on their land; they sent ten thousand men to battle. Where are the warriors today? Who slew them? Where are our lands? Who owns them?" - Sitting Bull

"Our ancestors ... possessed a right, which nature has given to all men, of departing from the country in which chance, not choice has placed them." - Thomas Jefferson

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

Edited !   (Magz New Collosus poem just showed up for some reason about 10 minutes after I posted just THAT poem)
For some reason the sequence of posts since my last post filtered thru erratically.  Initially when I checked followup posts I saw Londonlive, Kelly, and Mags each had one post.  About 15 minutes later I saw many more show up, and not necessarily in sequence !   So I edited out my New Colossus post since Magz hadn't shown when I initially entered that exact poem here !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Have no idea what you're trying to say and I realize you're not old enough to know what some of the rest of us are trying to say. I think what I am trying to say as well as many others is this:  You come to my house; you'll abide by my rules.  You won't smoke; you won't put your feet up on my furniture and you will use a coaster to set your drink on.

What I also realize is that in the last 52 years of my life, I have lost many of the freedoms that this country was founded upon.  I was allowed to pray in school, pledge the allegiance to the flag.  

Because of this country trying to please everyone, we will eventually lose it all.

I'm through with this thread.  Not quite:

The perfect example of all this crap of is more like this.  I am in charge of a fire department.  We are responsible for savings lives.  Yet because of all this "everyone should be treated the same" I am forced by the liberal ideology of this country to hire certain individuals regardless whether they can do the job or not.  No don't misunderstand me.  I am probably one of the least prejudice people you will ever meet.  I don't give a rats butt whether you are black, pink or purple.  I don't care whether you are female or male or which way your angle dangles;  But I do despise having to hire you just because you fit into one of those categories.

When you're in trouble and you have an accident or your house is on fire, who do you want me to send.  The blacks ones, pinks ones. female ones or gay ones?  I would rather send the best I can outfit regardless.  And these same liberal people will be the first to sue and cry wolf when the job isn't done right.  

Last year I came close to losing my job because they were using our station house as a voting district.  We we're givin' a 911 print that happen to have a scripture written on it.  They told me that had to come off the wall.  The print is still hanging there and the station house is no longer used as a voting place.

Get a few more years under your belt and you may start to see the light.

That is what this country has come to in trying to please everyone.  

Kelly

Agreed,  I think Katrina is one good example of how messed up things are Kelly.
When not enough are home to help those suffering from a forcasted crises here at home, it's just WRONG IMHO.  That's one example I can think of off the top of my head,  there are so many others as well.  


Regarding immigration.

It was my understanding that those that made the arduous trip "legally" thru Ellis Island were not extremely poor.  They paid their way to get here, or were sponsored, etc. It was also supposedly a VERY difficult way to enter the country. Not sure if those that didn't have infectious diseases, parasitic conditions, or were thought to be criminal were turned away, but the system was far from perfect (at least to my understanding). MANY couldn't come here thru Ellis Island. The priviledged did I suppose.

Without a doubt this is a difficult situation because exploitation does take place. In such a case what can you do ?   I don't know.

My feelings are ALL despite Race, Creed and Color should have the opportunity to come here with a hard work ethic, wishing to become contributing productive citizens, meaning NOT come here looking for free handouts, or to sponge but a willingness to do the work it takes to not be poor. I feel it's wrong to deny a person with proper intent access to oppurtunity but how can you KNOW this will be the case ?  I guess you can't !  

I feel those entering this country will need some degree of help to get started, but we "Help those with a willingness to help themselves wishing to become contributing and productive Americans".   We are a country of immigrants.  MANY immigrants with a strong work ethic.  Problem is the current system is FAR from perfect.  I agree with a lot already stated,  there ARE problems.  I don't think anybody will deny that to be the case.

JMO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'll tell you what scares the hell out've me.  Some come to the United States,  and look at some of the "roll models" they have these days.  Many that HAVE been born and raised in our country that are so dang lazy also exploiting our system.  

[strike]I have no answers.[/strike] Well, at least none I will voice  LOL

Interesting topic when kept civil !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm trying Steven.

It's not the "far from perfect" that scares me, nothing in life is perfect.  Life is always about trying to improve.  It's that the problem keeps getting worse instead of better.  Unfortunately, each generation, NOT ALL, but most are less respectful and appreciative than the last.

Kelly

Oh my goodness, please don't talk down to me, I know what you are trying to say, it's you who've said you don't understand me.  Now, I'm 24 years old and to my knowledge that puts me right at adulthood.  As for the things I've been through that put my emotional and intellectual age way past my years... yeah I've got that too.

What I'm trying to say is... ok you do what you want in YOUR house, but realize the USA IS NOT your house.  You want to abide by the rules of the true owners, go visit a reservation.  If you are not a Native American.... this isn't your house, so on what basis do you have the right to say who's allowed in after you and your family?

What I'm trying to say is immigration is broken.  Simple as that.  The rules under which someone can become a citizen are too loose in some places and too strict in others.

What I'm trying to say is, I don't want my child to pray in school, I don't want her effected by Christ at all being that I am not a Christian, Moreover I don't want her to get on her knees facing Mecca and praying either as I'm not Muslim.  In government institutions you CAN"T favor any religion.  Where government is concerned religion has no place. That is guaranteed to me by the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses of the first amendment. And if by trying to please everyone you mean equal rights for all then HELL YES that's the way it should be.  

As for affirmative action.... yeah that's always a rub.  How do we keep people from being racist/sexist what have you while still getting the best person for the job?  As it stands... there's no way, so everyone has a personal choice... which is the lesser of 2 evils.. prejudice or underqualified employees?  It's REALLY a serious issue, but I don't see how it fits into immigration as AA doesn't apply to illegal immigrants.

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

I believe that to be the case too Kelly.  Here's what scares me, and this might be a pretty interesting topic.

This is my own observation:
It seems that much has been forgotten from past history.  It also seems to me that too many are taking freedoms and safety forgranted, seems (again to me), that too many have a "head-in-the-sand" mentality that we are America, and Americans,  we are big and bad and NOBODY will dare mess with us (At least we did until 9-11).  Now personally something that concerned me was the voting public shifting to a "Centrism" mindset.  NOW,  I know people can agree to disagree with me on this but I noticed {and I'm NOT a historian, and history as well as government (by choice) is a VERY weak area for me so keep in mind this is just MY own perspective}

Around 72 VP candidate Senator Thomas Eagleton ran into probs because he was scrutinized for past voluntary depression hospitalization.

We heard plenty about "Clinton Didn't inhale" but that was a big issue for many.

Well,  look at where we are today in terms of what we do and don't know about candidates.

Some call this a shift towards "Centrism" I suppose (don't know). But I'm wondering if we are slowly as a nation losing the awareness and competence it takes to remain a superpower nation.

Dunno.  I spend very little time thinking about politics and government.  But this issue is something I've wondered.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ma Faither an his faithers bigget this nation wi nakit bluiy wauket hands. Nae for arle tae send back auld joskin.For loue O joskin.Mont dee'd for leeberty an America. Aw wrocht o swiet fior generations tae upbuild nation whilck haes largest immigration e'er. Ye miscaw ma fithers O weemen-fouk by insinuating thay nae ken haurd wirk.

My people built this nation with many hardships and sacrifices My mother during the war went through sugar rations flour and many  uncles dee'd for this liberty.. On another thread you call my president a liar and insult all Americans which include many hispanic friends Now show my people some respect by learning their language. And if you really want to talk to one of the originals I am Scot and 1/4 Muscelero Apache.But most of all I am a member of the VFW and an American.

Chill out lass for if you knewe this old man in person you would give me love and respect and visa versa...

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[strike]  I wish more women did that around here ![/strike]

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

 Nae Lad I pm'd you with the woard you want..

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I'm not sorry for calling him a liar and to my knowledge I haven't insulted anyone.  All of our families built this country up to be what it is today, my family struggled just as yours did, My grandmother had to wait in bread lines during the depression, had to scrape for every penny just to survive.  My father lost his leg in Vietnam, my Great grandfather lost his life in WWI.  We've all sacrificed for this country.  

The important thing to ask is did we sacrifice all of this in vain, or are we going to continue the works of our forefathers and make this the best damn country ever?

Is prejudice and lies going to be our legacy? If so all I have to say is nach mór an trua!  Bush swore allegance to the Constitution only to create the Patriot act which is a direct contradiction of the Constitution. I won't apologize for my thoughts on your President when it was he who took my rights away.

And before you tell me to chill out maybe you should respect me.  Because I had the rare priviledge of not sleeping for 2 years.  Staying up late watching CNN trying to catch a glimpse of my husband, scared to death every time the phone rang.  Nightmares of a flag covered box containing what was left of my husband.  Worried my daughter would never know the man who was ready to give it ALL just so I can say what I say today.  

In THIS war I gave, I nearly gave up the love of my life, what was actually lost were 2 years that could have been full of love.  He missed our daughter's first steps and first 2 birthdays.  He missed so much so that I could have the right to say to you that Bush is a liar and an egomaniac, a C student who went to school on daddy's money not merit, an alcoholic and the person who said the following....

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."  - George W. Bush

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

Colin Powell

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You want to talk about walls"" When I came back I ran into walls and spit and deresion.. This country put me through judicial hell I paid for everything I ever done.At one point half the homeless in this great nation was vietnam vets..  Right now the wetbacks are getting better and quicker medical care than the ones fighting for it. When do I get my amnesty?

You are a typical liberal modern generation that has no respect for your elders parents or even self. You hurl insults and replies are racist and then say dont talk down to me!!! You cant say that!! Go down to any welfare office if you are not mexican you dont have a chance.. Respect you ??? You cant even respond to a gentleman's post without venom!!

I have never engaged any verbal assaults with any female on this forum ! I will not stand and let you insult my people or country or traditions You have the typical liberal tabloid attitude that everybody should think like you do and if not you arte going to pass laws and if that dont work you are gond woe is me!!!ing to take it the supreme court and fight which ones are elected or pay them off...

You are a greedy immature individual with no character honor or respect or tolerance for others It is a radical hooray for me and fuc* everybody else. And woe is me!!! Sir or maam is not in your language. It is me me me !!!

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Sir, it really dismays me that you can't speak beyond your anger.  I'm not the one spouting "wetbacks" and then calling someone else racist. I merely spoke my mind and my views.

As far as the "me me me" issue.... you don't know me don't presume you do.  And respect for my elders of course, they do recieve it initially until they've shown me they don't deserve it.  Tonight sir, you have done just that. I see absolutely no reason in respecting a "gentleman" who talks to me as if I were a child and then INSULTS my Mexican heritage by calling us "wetbacks".

You sir, have shown your character to me though I've yet to show you mine.  I feel sorry for you at this point.  I'm sorry that you can't see past the ignorance of your upbringing, I apologize that you feel I am the aggressor in YOUR country.  I'm sorry for you.

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]