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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0

Is that you???  Anyways.. What a great song and video!! I loved it and I whole heartedly agree.  

My family came from Germany and according to my grandmother when they got here they were forbidden to speak German and they would get in trouble if they did. Her grandparents would only speak German if they got really mad. They believed that they had come to a new country and they wanted to be American and English was a part of being American. Perhaps that is one of the reasons that German is not a selection on the EEOC information. It only listed white.

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

I don't get it.........course I'm still waiting on my green card.....

His actual name is  "Johnny tussenvoegseverb"  He shortened it when his grandparents moved to the US in the mid 1970's to avoid the holocaust

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

As it SHOULD be!  If I moved to another country I would FULLY anticipate trying to learn THEIR culture & THEIR language, not insist that they throw away their beliefs & languages because they may offend me!  As I would expect anyone moving to this country to reciprocate - but it just don't happen anymore!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

HI All:  No thats not me.  Someone I know sent that in an email.. I thought she did a great job on the singing and writing of that song.

Get ready to throw cans and tomatoes at me.

I appologise on my post . Here in nyc if you phone most institutions you will get a robot telephone system asking you yo press "1" for english. One of my sisters wendy married a very respectable argentinian gent and now my nephew is bilingual. My sister wendy is a very high paid proffessional as is her hubby. they met while working for microsoft and her hubby fabian speaks english better than me. In fact he still holds a post as a call in troubleshooter for microsoft

Let me break it down >Language is simply a means to communicate<

When man evolved from monkey he did it all over the globe with many way to communicate and invented languages.

Certainly our american language has its roots in english, But if you research our history and find that the spanish and french were some of the first visitors to our land you may rethink.

I myself have even taken spanish language classes.

Yo Gusto Karaoke

Heres the link we are replying to:

http://www.rivolirevue.com/php/catalog_ ... nglish.php

Well, Lonman, I would say that works in a perfect world but not always in a real world. I have traveled the world and I can tell you, when it comes to integrating to the local customs and language, Americans are the worst. Believe me, I have seen numerous example of this.

Americans insist speaking English wherever they go. They turn up their noses at locals when they eat some strange food. They avoid local events because it offends their morality. I see that all the time. I am not saying you, Lonman, will do that but I think it's a bit hypocritical to insist that everyone who comes to this country to conform to the "American" way yet when they, and I do mean majority of the travelers and immigrants, go to other country, they insist that they follow the American way. For example, would you give up drinking all together if you go visit or live in Saudi Arabia? That country is dry, although you do see people drinking there sometimes, to truly conform to their way living, you would have to convert to Islam and give up drinking. Are you willing to do that?

Unless you have been there and done that, it's easy to sit here and think that "Oh, I would definitely do this and that" but until you get there, idea and reality are rarely the same.

Now, I do know it's not easy trying to integrate in to other country as an American.  I don't know if you have been to Paris at all but Parisians are some of worst offenders being difficult, may be even worse then New Yorkers. As an American, you would have a heck of a time trying to fit in to the language and culture of the Paris (not necessarily France in general) and you may get so frustrated that you will look for ex-pats to hang with and speak English. Same thing happens in Asia as well, languages and customs are difficult to learn.

The bottom line is that keep an open mind about it. Unless you have been there, it's easy to imagine it, hard to live it.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Eben,  Since I know little about Americans that "relocate" to different locations/cultures, are most AS bad as NY Metro area vacationers that often treat the local business people (of the respective vacation areas) as though they are second class citizens, or animals behind a cage ?   That's a pretty scary thought assuming it to be so.  Some American travelers are great, however there *are* way too many that exude arrogance, and seem to think they are Gods gift to all.  It's pretty sickening,  I've seen this too many times both in Europe and in my travels in the Southeastern US areas as well.  Unfortunately too many *North Easterners* ARE quite self-absorbed.

BUT  (Here's my question since you have knowledge in this area)  LOL
(this is an area I know nothing about)

 ARE the Americans that move abroad any more supercilious than wealthy Italian, Spanish, or MOST affluent European business people that relocate to here ?  I've known MANY German, Scandinavian, French, Spanish, even British people that SEEM far more arrogant than MOST I know from the New York Metro area.  Does this have to do with geographic location ?  Or is abandon of etiquette a trait often found in MOST wealthier international city folk traveling AND relocating throughout the world ?  

Reason I'm asking is although I don't know of arrogant Americans that have moved elsewhere (from the perspectives of natives elsewhere), I know of plenty of European wealthy business people that move to the US, with QUITE a horrible attitude (looking down there noses at our culture and it's people as well),  while this might be deserved in SOME cases, some I know that come here *at least* appear to feel compelled to rub our noses in our nations faults "enjoying the American Way". I've just know TOO many European, S. American, Asian, and African business people that come here, and they really are VERY similar to the American Big City dwellers in terms of their condescending on so much of our culture, political system, etc, and their zeal when doing-so.  

Again, I'm not saying this isn't deserved (because I don't know about this area), I'm asking your opinion regarding this. Not knowing Americans that *relocate* from the perspective of the natives of their new destination, I have no means of comparison as to preparation of MOST regarding adaptation to the new culture abroad.  I DO however have Chinese neighbors too that moved here, and are essentially IMPOSSIBLE for MANY to get along with. A few of the males are "racist" expressing their dislike stereotyping ALL hispanic people, Americans, Blacks, etc..   Yet I know MORE Chinese people that are extremely polite. AND, this appears to be more age-related too, meaning there are A-holes in ALL international locations (since most of the Chinese women are reserved it's tougher to tell, yet reserved is good of course), though I can't extend the same opinion regarding the German, Turkish,. Israeli women I've met  :shock:, (they'd hold their own in a boxing match with Tyson, I think some of their outspoken mouths would take out his fists - ) .  With the exception of a few Chinese people that really have seemed to have attitudes, MOST Oriental people that move to the US (that I'VE known) seem extremely well-bred, and reserved, From my perspective the Japanese business people seem to be exceptionally polite, yet so do MOST Asians.  Given what I've seen, the attitude IS directly applicable to MOST Western wealthy business people. It seems that Western City business folks are VERY much the same from my perspective, I also think many FEMALE travelers find some of the Sexism of European males even scarier.   ( I DO know MANY international people that have relocated), I think that LIKE American wealthy arrogant folks, there are ALSO classes in ALL nations that similarly carry their attitudes.  (Again dunno)  I'd imagine that American people when they relocate are much the same way, as to percentages,  I have NO clue.



My question is..  Is it location, upbringing ?  Or in general does MOST etiquette go down the crapper once a person gets into the higher-paced business world, or knows they live a "comfortable" life-style ?   Yes,  There are polite folks and A&&holes in ALL nationalities, races, religions, etc that can be found,  but DO the Americans and Parisians tie for first place ?   Or do MOST Wealthy City dwellers Internationally, or perhaps Western Business-folks ?

I've wondered this...  I don't know ~

Are WE that much worse ?  OK,  so much for me blabbing about what I haven't a clue about   .  I've known MANY foreign people, from ALL locations.  Almost seems people ARE people, and while Americans MIGHT be arrogant the moment they step off the plane.  Seems it's just a matter of time before those the relocate here show THEIR true colors too..  OR, is it becuase they are having a tough time metriculating to less mature social structure ?

Now,  for those that read this..  

IS this International bboard a microcosm of different Cultures interrelating ?  Or is this strictly a Westernized "pop-culture" (essentially American/British) interaction going on in here ? Either way.  We are all similar,  those of us in this bboard are from ALL over the world, and we interrelate similarly as do those that move to different countries.  Don't most just move to similar socio-economic regions in different parts of the globe, DESPITE country name, etc ? Western people for the most part relocate to Western areas in different countries where the people really aren't THAT much different, or are they ?  People are similar I'd think despite location in the world when you compare Apples to apples.

Is something flawed regarding my logic here ?  It might be, and I'm curious to hear what it is I might not be understanding.  How are NY people different from other big city folk in different parts of the world ?  Aren't THOSE the areas most will relocate to ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, here is my theory on this. I found that in my travels that the "arrogant Americans" tend to be mostly visitors. That being said, you will find that most of the people who immigrate to the US are not the rich, they are the middle class who are looking for the American dream of making it here. They are the ones I find to be polite, try to integrate and do what they can. They tend to focus on the education for their kids. They are the ones who work hard towards the citizenship, which is not possible if they have even a misdemeanor on their record such as reckless driving or DUI. They have to live cleaner lives then those of have citizenship bestowed on them just for being born in the US.

Now cut to other countries. I find that most of the people who immigrate to other country FROM US are not usually the middle class or lower class, they tend to be more affluent folks who go there because they get much better opportunity, financially. These are the people who hire live in maids and baby sitters and thinks that US is the center of the universe. They are the ones who try to instill their morality to "less fortunate" locals. I mean look at the typical attitude of US foreign policy makers on where we are in the world; Iraq, Afghanistan, Granada, Vietnam, etc. If you hear the military commanders of these countries, they sound like they are the knights on white horse there to "save" the poor locals. I have personally seen faux pas committed by these people because they want to fix the locals to believe in the US values.

This is type of attitude that is instilled in this country, specially in the bible belt area. So, when these people travel or live overseas, they have this superior attitude. I have seen this personally traveling around the world.

I think people who sing these "love it or leave it" type of songs or rhetorics are just way too narrow minded. They need to travel around the world with an open mind and don't ever judge others just because they are different. I mean, stop instilling their morality on people who may eat some strange food, just because it's not a common practice in the US. What do you think the people who believe in Hindu in India think about the people in the US for eating cows? Don't you think they are disgusted by that act? Yet they, with population that is 4 times the US, don't put their morality on us like we do to others around the world.

Just my strong opinion.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

I agree Eben.

I was making an assumption, and likely an erroneous assumption that for the most part those coming to this country, and similarly moving out've the country were relocating to "comparable" socio-economic conditions, and moving to take somewhat of a similar job related position, hence more of a lateral "White collar" position transfer type move,  and I was incorrect.  What I didn't consider was that many of the families that come to the US are poorer, and move to an area that is wealthier than the conditions they are leaving.  In some cases to open restaurants, and wait on the wealthier people I suppose, often-times not having a clue as to where they can or will work once they get here, yet getting here is their first objective !  Once here, they will take JUST about any job to make ends meet, and as you mentioned given certain jobs, and their mission will *not* risk something that will impede them from succeding (DUI type wanton behaviour).  You brought up a good point..  For some reason it didn't occur to me that perhaps most that move here aren't relocating to and from the Corporate White Collar world.

While I know my grandparents and many ancestors that came to this "melting pot" came here destitute, and ended up Blue Collar workers, I forget today that things are still that way much of the time.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".