Karaoke Forums

Powerkaraoke is also what drives VP hard drive conversion.

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Funny that I made this post= cuz I went and checked out a new karaoke show last night= WOW. This guy had the most expensive set up I have ever seen(trust fund baby or something) Anyway- it was in the dive bar about a mile from me and there were only about 20 people there so he had time to talk.

The bar dimensions were probably 20 feet by about 50- so respectable size...equal to some of the smaller ballrooms I've seen wedding receptions done in.

He had 2 of the original Bose PAS systems and 4 bass modules. He was using evolution series sennheiser wireless mics( damn things are 600.00 a piece cuz that's what I use)  and had a "Sharp" 26 inch wide screen hi def MONITOR and was running his show from a (I wrote this down so I'd remember) XPS 2010 computer w/ dual hard drives. The tower for the computer was only 5 inches wide and about 15 inches high...kewelest thing I've ever seen! This guy didn't use "song books" he had a table with 4 -I'm not sure WHAT they were but they looked like those old drawing toys "etch a sketch" you turned a knob and all his songs scrolled- of you could run a search by artist, genre, or song title. This guy was like my wet dream of a show! He HAD to have WAY over 10 grand invested in JUST the equipment! But his sound was BANGING. The PAS  towers have remote controls so he would walk out in the room as each person was singing and adjust the sound...he blew me away!

The negatives were...he had the personality of a wet rag...which is none. And his song selection was pretty limited. he was using one of the foundation series by soundchoice plus I think he had one of the sweet georgia brown bundles. The codes in his book were "SC" and "SGB" but he had loaded them into his hard drive. There were a total of about 4000 songs. I have been to shows where there was a excess of 15,000 to 20,000

He said he mainly did private parties and was just doing a "trial" at this place. So whether he'll be back or not is anyone's guess. I was just glad I got to see him when i did. He seemed to have a whole lot more interest in the technical side of it and none on the "interaction" side of it so I have my doubts about him having a long run as a KJ...but that system...Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I honestly felt Like I was looking at the future! He said he was "building"....yes he himself was "building" a special mp3 player that would take the place of his actual computer. I'm assuming he "built" those unique "songbooks" too..- it IS a great way to get around people stealing them...they're plugged in! Guy was a computer engineer! I asked him if he has had trouble with the quality of the files once they were run through such a high powered system. He said he had ripped them all at 320kbps and the only trouble was if the file/original disk itself had any sort compression issue or hiss/hum in it. He said the SGB had a few that had probably been produced on older equipment that was partially  or all analog and some of those has some "issues" but he tweaked everything and his sound was AMAZING! (I didn't tell him that sound choice probably was partially or all analog too. )

It was like what I would imagine singing karaoke on "Star trek" woukld be like!

*** he said he was getting ready to add a "recording" feature where anyhone that wanted could pay 5.00 and get a recording of their performance. he was also working on ...get this "adapting 2 additional Bose PAS systems so he could provide SURROUND sound at his shows!" Not just speakers in all the corners but actual "sorround sound" WHOA!

never could figure out his name- he said it and darned it I could pronounce it!(he was asian)...after a few trys- he just told us to call him "JIm"

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I had a buddy that ran solo accoustic shows and bought a Bose PAS system. It was fine for small clubs, but was very lacking if the venue was even medium size. It sounded great in his living room. He got rid of it and went back to a standard PA. I'll stick to my powered EV's...but I do run my shows from computer, and understand the technology shift. Not sure that I would want to run from an Ipod...how do I run two screens and see what's going on with my rotation, music, etc. on a tiny little screen  :shock:

I've been running DJ and Karaoke from computer for 5 years.

There is a degradation with the sound between original CD and MP3. I'm not sure how people are ripping MP3+G to 320kbps, and the only software that allows you to decode that I know of is MP3GToolz...and there is no 320 setting.

I question if ripping to 320 is really worth that HD space in the first place if you could do it. I have ripped most of my standard music to 192, and the minor loss between the file and original CD is not enough to worry about. In terms of a "harsher" sound, I would agree with that, but with the proper mixing and good quality speakers, it is very difficult to pick up.

If we look at it from a purely audiofile standpoint, there are differences. Thing is, in a club setting...people just don't notice.

I think my little tekkie asian friend here may come up with that answer. He did say he was "building one"    But seriously- we plug ipods into normal amps now and sing to them at some of my singing gigs...there are ipods that have video capacity now..it is too far fetched to imagine that you could also plug them into a Tv or video monitor the "SEE" the words playing on the ipod?

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I couldn't start to tell you how he ripped at 320kpbs...I was doing everything I could to even keep up with this guy. I felt like forest gump having a discussion with Einstein! If any one COULD do it...this guy could. I honestly think he may have built his system from the circuitry out. It wasn't like anything I have ever seen before.

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Okay here are my comments on this thread. I am an Engineer by trade KJ on the side. I have been a computer hobbiest since my father bought a TRS80 back in the early 80's. I have been running karaoke from computer for 5 years. I see major limitations with Ipods for this application. Somewhere down the road that may change. today, in order to run a quality show, you need quality sound and video cards, and at least one very large hard drive. If I have to carry a bunch of peripherals around to plug into an Ipod, then the small size is actually a moot point...

As far as Bose is concerned...sure the PAS system sounds good, but when it first came out, I had a number of discussions with engineers at Bose, and the questions I asked were the common questions that people who work with sound would ask, "What is the power output, watts RMS?" "What is the efficiency SPL at 1 meter at 1 watt?" The answer was typically Bose. "We don't use those types of measurement systems." Oh, so we have no way to compare you to your competition. It's all smoke and mirrors with Bose. The proof is in what you can actually do with the system...and versatility. I'm sorry, but the PAS system just doesn't cut it with me...and if you can't give me any real useful engineering data, I wouldn't give you twelve cents for your speakers. Like I said previously I'll stick with my Electro Voice SXa250's, and put out better sound and cover more venues than Bose could ever do.

If you want to get into a discussion about how Bose is better than Electro Voice...bring it on.

Here's one of the threads with the Bose engineers:

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc ... 070654/p/1

I would NEVER do that Dennis. Your reply was exactly the sort of thing i was looking to illicit when I posted this thread. I can't and won't even TRTY to tell you that bose is better than EV...To be honest "I" use EV and they sound GREAT.

But I am saving for one of the bose systems because most of the shows I personally do are smaller and in quieter venues like country clubs. Oh...the shows I am referring to aew not karaoke shows..just me singing. Many of the places only have a 300 or 500 dollar budget and thats not enough for the rest of the live band I normally paly with-so I just use tracks. They places are happy because they really just want a little background music on the beginning then some dance music later. The bose system will be easier on me to carry and in such a small place it will also allow me to more accurately gage how loud I am- because it allows me to hear exactly what they are hearing.

I also respect your comments on ipod and their limitations. You are the kind of person I want to hear where you see Karaoke going in the future from.

There is such a heated debate on format shifting and I'm wondering/hoping that what I see happening in the music industry will overflow into karaoke- downloads versus actual disks. Do you think the format shifting debate will be phased out on it's own in time with new technology? And if so what technology do you see being the up and coming karaoke vehicle?

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Tricerasoft CDG Ripper can rip mp3+g at 320.  Also bin, wav+g & kmf files.



I agree here, most of my regular music is ripped at 192, some higher, fewer lower.  A good sound card will help a bit as well on playback.  Especially in the club, there is no way anyone could tell the difference.

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There is (or at least was) a video adapter for the ipod to do just that!
http://www.handstands.com/retail/ipod-a ... ry-kit.php
It is included in this kit, but I know it can be bought separately as well.  With karaoke being developed for ipod & rippers being able to create for ipod - it's basically a hard drive player, the better the rip, the better the playback.  80gb isn't a lot, but it can still store a great many songs ripped at 192.  It would handle aprox 12,000 songs at 192.  I have over 14K in my system (counting dups) ripped at 192 to a kma file & that many songs takes up 95.5gb.
I know other hosts that use their ipods for fill music, they sound fine.  I know 1 dj that has 2 ipods & uses them for dj work using
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2005/07/2 ... od-at-399/
I haven't seen the video quality, but with a good rip, the audio quality is very passable.

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I do think discs are going by the wayside eventually and unless the manus actually release everything to a computer format, then the format shift debate will never go away.  When manus of the software & hardware that make it possible to run pro shows on computer from their own discs - with the advertising points No need to carry your heavy discs anymore, geared toward pro users in commercial environments, there is always going to be those who will debate it.
If karaoke does make a digital shift, then discs are gone!  They could either sell their music through legal download sources or if you want a hard copy, maybe a flash drive of sorts?

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One,

Not trying to start a fight  :D

I can understand how the bose system would work for your application as you describe it. I year or so ago we were at a wine tasting at a vinyard and they had this "one man band" guy who was playing accoustic guitar, and singing with tracks, and it sounded fabulous. i even spent some time talking to him about the bose system. Basically, his use made sense. He did small clubs, resturants and gigs line the vinyard. He needed a clean sound...not nessesarily a powerful sound (we can get into a debate about what that means also). I totally understood his app, it worked, but I still struggled with the system price...

As far as where the technology is going...

To be honest, this is a very complicated subject. If you consider, only a few years ago you couldn't do decent video on a computer, and look how far it has come, then the future actually should be very interesting. Not long ago, due to lack of storage space it wasn't feasible to use a computer to run Karaoke or even just plain music for that matter. I think storage is the first critical hurdle that needs to be overcome to get to a true audiophile system. If the current format of CD audio ie; wave format "is" the best sound quality we can expect, then due to file size we need more storage. I think that better file compression or new file types will allow high quality smaller file sizes, and if we could have true CD quality sound and still have thousands of files, that would be a minor breakthrough. Some technology and software to improve MP3 sound quality exists, but it still only "Enhances" the sound. A real, clean CD quality sound or better would be a great thing to have.

The next step is improved circuitry in terms of computer and electronics. Wireless systems that are not prone to interference would be one major improvement. Smaller computers. I use a SFF system today which is very compact, but still it could be smaller. Better laptop sound and video would be a small improvement. Laptops are prone to all kinds of problems in my experience running them. Ground interference, absolutely horrible sound cards, video out that won't run full screen, instability...I could go on. I have a laptop that I only bring as a back-up, but in order to run it at a level even close to my SFF, I have to plug in an external hard drive, external sound card and still don't get the video quality. Besides, I hate all the extra wires looming around my work area. I also feel that a laptop is too "fragile" and too expensive for the application. I like the fact that I can lock up my 2 space Gator rack and take it with me in a few seconds, and throw it arouns without worrying about something breaking.

I digressed a bit, but further down the road, I think you could have a flat, touch screen computer system on the tv stand that the singer could talk into the mike and it would cue their song. I would hope that a good KJ would still be there, because I think that adds something to the show. Problem is, a club will see that they could eliminate the KJ pretty fast as the technology gets to that point. CAVs already has a pay for karaoke jukebox. I have built systems that will do the same thing.

Lonny and I agree on this. I think there are ways to make it technically feasible to make the shift legal and control the copyrights to the music. this is a hotly contested subject here and many other places on the web, but if you have a memory stick or some other digital media, it's a small step to putting a key system or some other control to the original purchaser.

Today, those of us who are shifting, believe that if we have the actual disks to back up our hard drives, we should be okay...it really hasn't been challenged...just talked about a lot.

ahm.... Song request stations are old hat.  I've had them since '04 and most of the hosting software out there records.  autOKdj is freeware and has song request stations.

I'm not a big Bose fan either.  Muddy bass, under powered, no thump IMHO.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Lonny,

How big of hard drive are you running?

I'm up to 500gig, but I run music videos and my DJ music off there too.

I do have some free space, but I just upgrade a month or so ago from 250.

I don't run any videos, strictly my karaoke files so 250gb is fine for my needs - at this time.  My dj computer only has 120gb, but I only have about 10K songs on it ripped 90% at 192 & it takes up a little more than 1/2 of the drive.
If I ever get my laserdiscs ripped to a decent quality video/sound wise, then I will probably need to get a bigger drive.

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sounds like your vineyard performer and I do the same thing. I'm thinking the price is worth it for me as a woman carrying all the equipment around by myself. My amp,mixing board, monitor, wirebag, stands and EV speakers are DARN heavy and bulky compared to the bose and when I go in front of the speakers to hear the sound half the time I feed back.(course that may be my inadequacies as a sound engineer) But to me- the compactness of the bose and the ease of setting it up and hauling it make it worth the price to me. And, to many of the venues I perform in,  the ability to have a softer yet clear sound is actually a selling point. Always some old codger who sits in front of the speaker then complains its "TOO LOUD"  when I turn it down they come over and tell me they can't hear a word I'm saying(sigh)

I tested the original PAS  on 4 gigs when I borrowed one from a friend of mine who has both kinds of set ups(he also likes the standard set up like you do for bigger gigs)I didn't like the bose at all without the bass module- but loved it with with either the single bass for jazz gigs and cocktail parties or , for dinner/dance oriented jobs. the double bass. It was wonderful for me. So lightweight and easy to set up. and in the places I used it. it was perfect. I had a fellow musician who happened to be eating dinner come over because he was amazed how good the sound was all the way to the side of the room where he was seated...he walked all around the room and it DOES give you consistent levels throughout,,again smaller room. We briefly spoke( I was working) but it seemd to be a universal concern for everyone---is the bose worth the money?. I asked the managers at the 4 jobs I used the bose at which they preferred and all preferred the bose system. THAT was probably the most persuasive factor for me personally.  Living in San Fran some of the setups are a NIGHTMARE of tons of steps with no elevator access. Parking near a door is also NEVER a sure thing. So since I am but a woman the bose makes logical sense. Can't answer for everyone- and I am CERTAINLY no sound engineer...but for me - I would prefer to use the bose at any of the jobs that didn't demand a full blown dance party. But thats just me.

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Audiograbber is what I use for my ripping needs, and yeah, I upgraded from 128kbps to 192 a couple of years ago. I tried from 192 to 320 and couldn't tell a difference in the club... not worth the extra space for me!

That's why I went to the powered SXa250 EV's. That get's rid of the amps in your rack, which are the main weight. I have my computer and server tray with flat screen monitor, keyboard and mouse in a one Gator rolling rack, my TC Helicon Voice One vocal processor, TC Reverb Processor, power module and mixing board in another Gator rolling rack. The speakers also go into rolling bags. Nothing weighs over 50 pounds. It's still more than the bose, but at least managable.