Karaoke Forums

I know this topic has been beaten to death the eternal question "to fluff or not to fluff" will of course roll forever.

But shouldn't there be support groups for us who can't bare to hurt anyone's feelings?  Or better yet how about a class for it.... How to be an A**hole 101.


Any thoughts?

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

    Actually, there should be support groups for those of us that dare to tell the truth.  Honesty (especially in a setting such as Singer's Showcase) is a disease that's not only self destructive, but it harms codependents of the illness as well.  Seems to damage all within close proximity that are exposed to such vile behavior.   Always remember,  prior to thinking that "fluffing" or "White Lies" are problematic, Unbeknownst to some, even we honest folks (AKA a**holes) have a downside !
    What fluffers don't realize is that being an a**hole does not necessarily make one the envy of ALL!   In fact, certain things about it stink !  It's over-rated !  So prior to making assumptions a**holes are the pinnacle of virtue, and loved by all that come within close contact of them always remember that "the Grass is seldom actually greener on the A**hole"; To believe this to be the case is an erroneassed assumption. Those of us that have achieved such a level of social stature can tell you (that despite how others view us) where we've carved our niche IS NOT what it's cracked up to be ! Our position often makes us the butt of condescension for both pundits and follies alike !  
    All one needs to do is take a closer look at this dubiass meritoriass area, to get better perspective that even a**holes have to deal with crap in this world !  Sometimes we feel it's just not possible to take a load off, and what passes in due course for others, just builds and builds for us, and we become really backed up with stuff that can get quite hard for us !  Not everything that comes our way goes smoothly,  A lot of what we are exposed to is hard knocks !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Holy cow Magz!!! I just a wiff of that fluff here in Texas.. I think I'll be closing my windows for a while!!!  LOL

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

And there should be a group formed.. We could call it FU for short.. "Fluffers United"

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Hi.... I'm Charmin, and I'm a fluffer too.




I gotta tell ya though, sometimes it gets old. I just don't understand the whole WHY we have a ranking/critique thing, when fluff is all that abounds there. Fluff is good, don't get me wrong. But it can be misleading to anyone who perhaps DOES really want an honest opinion.

Sometimes, I just drift outta there for a while, until I get to missing the place too badly, then I go back. (when i'm feeling down, and need to be fluffed)

Pray god people think realistically and don't believe everything they read. (or.. type)  LMAO

Now I better shush, cause I'm getting off into that can of worms thingee.

But it would be fun to be part of a group called FU

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I haven't see anyone NOT giving fluff comments lately, to be honest. I think all the non-fluffers are gone. Or they are only giving bad rankings and not commenting.

I always get great comments, but a couple of times lately someone has given me a really bad ranking so that my "10" goes down to 7 or below in just an hour. That is probably just someone who hates me, I'm guessing. I think you have to give someone a 4 or lower to get from a 10 to a 7, so they are just someone who is upset with me for some reason or another. weird, huh? There are some evil people out there.

Anyway, I almost always say nice things. I am also not picky, though, so I like most of the songs and singers posted on SS. If I think someone is hitting a lot of bad notes or really off, I might give them an 8 or 9 ranking. I try to find something nice to say even if I don't like it much.  If I really like it then I say WOW or awesome or A+++++++ but if I just think it is ok, I say, I enjoyed it or nice song, etc.  I have found that no one here wants to hear  any negaitive criticism whatsoever. And most people post "just for fun" anyway, so that makes it pretty clear they don't want to hear anything but kind words!  If they say "please critique", I might say something like, "this song is too low for you" , or "I have trouble understanding your words" or whatever the problem is.  Very rarely do I see anyone saying they want critique when that person really sucks.  

The exception: there are some people, though, who have no voice because they are really old or something, so I admit that I do not treat them the same way I would treat someone who has a regular voice.  I guess that is condescending...but no one has ever complained, so

I do really appreciate it when people are honest on MYsubs! I ask for critique and want it!  Sometimes, rarely, I will get some....

Have fun, that's the important thing, girl!!!




Suzanne

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

Sounds good....start that FU group and I will join! I will be happy to!

I notice that lots of people have complained about fluff, but no one has actually started their own site like this one where real critique is wanted or welcomed...why not? At least the people who complained about the rankings and such started their own, so bully for them (KSK).

It seems the majority don't want any negative critique. I tried it and it didn't work. I tested it out. For a few weeks, whenever someone said "please critique", if I had any negative critique, I would add in my comments: "if you want other critique, email or PM me and I will give it to you".  And I kept a text file of my critique in case anyone did. Guess what? No one did!! So there you have it.

My guess is that only singers of a certain level want it because they are the ones who actually want to work on and improve their singing...but they probably require more professional critique from people who can really hear any problems, which most of us may not have the ear or the knowledge for.  The singers who really have a lot of problems are ones who either are very insecure because the know they are not very good, or they are people who are too lazy to really work on their subs much before submitting them, or they just don't care.  These are not people who want critique, even if they may need it.

My advice, if you want critique - go get voice lessons!!  They help immensely. I took them for years and they helped a lot.  Several singers here have taken them, too, and they have really improved.  Your local college may even have free lessons for people in the community, if you can't afford them.

Or maybe you can start a topic here, "Who wants critique?" and anyone who actually wants real critique can sign up on a list, and we will all know from then on which ones do want it.   You can add me to the list!!

You could also just say "I really want real critique, not fluff" in your song's description, that might help.

One other thing, though, is that personally I usually know what my problems are Sometimes I work and work on a song and I still have a few problems, but I sub it anyway. I usually will say in my comments "This is a work in progress" or "there are some mistakes here" etc.  But in general I would be very happy to get detalied critique, and to give it!!

I will also add that if I don't know the song, it is hard for me to critique unless the person is really bad.  And vice versa - I am way more critical when people sing songs that I know really well.

Sorry for the long-windedness of the posts!!

Suzanne

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

The folks that would like a critique are those that choose 'C' right?
I noticed there really arnt nearly as many with the "C' as there are the 'J'.
Ive thought about critiquing......but...who am I?

Sure...Ive been singing a long time....sure Ive done the band thing.....play several instruments...
but when I really stop and think about it...
am I really qualified to give a critique?

So...who is? I sit and  ponder.

I supose a vocal teacher would be qualified.

I don't think anyone expects professional critique, just an objective listen from someone who knows how to sing but you are right, most people do choose J instead of C.  But even the ones who choose C do not seem to really want it.

Suzanne

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

Are fewer opting for "C" compared to a year ago Suzanne ?  If-so, THAT'S a good thing !  Maybe at one point, some will learn that Critique does have a meaning and adhere to it's definition more !  Let's not hold our breath tho..  Not many can deal with a Critique. This won't change.   Those of you that could handle a Critique ended up losing out because we critiquers got gang-mugged and shot leaving the venue in the SS parking lot by the "Fluffers Rights Activists"

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I've got a FABULOUS idea on how to get rid of fluff.  We simply say the meanest possible things.... on EVERYONE"S subs.... yeah see how that works??? oh yeah I'm a thinker ahead of my time

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

I had an idea along those lines.  I figured I'd offer my sorry A$$ as a sacrificial lamb.  I'd sub a song for Critique in SS, and it'd be blatanly obvious anybody ranking me above 2 was full of crap,   Expectation would be that LOW rank, and comments highlighting such an abomination of work could be used to set a new precident slightly shifting the 1-10 current mean average bell curve to the left a tad.
Assuming what listeners heard wouldn't be enough to snap them out've such a Polyanna-like Rose Colored Glasses syndrome, there'd be NO hope for reforming this illness of Fluffaephilia

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I've said it SO many times in my subs that i want NO fluff, that i really hope people don't fluff me, there is a reason that i choose the C in my subs and i really want it. i'm also not a B**** about it when someone says there might be a little pitchiness in one of my songs, all it does for me is make me work harder on it. granted you prolly won't hear the revised version on here, but it helps me sing the song better live. so to anybody who wants to critique my stuff hell,  GO FOR IT! lmao,  i want you to.

~~HUGS~~ Angie.

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I'm in my own little world,but it's ok they know me here.

http://www.myspace.com/faile_x2

Problem is while you want a Critique, a person leaving you a Critique will often have to deal with the "apologists" that don't like to see Critiques because to some, an honest well intended Critique is unduly harsh, and it disturbs them seeing it in a "fun" venue.  Just the way things have been at times.  Some really loathe seeing Critiques left in a "fun" place.  They construe the person Critiquing as a Kill-joy. The Critique option can be a fabulous gift for the aspiring vocalist, but the vast majority of the time there's lashback towards the party offering even the requested Critique. Or the Critique becomes subject to scrutiny by others. Many really don't want a Critique option unless Critique is redefined to mean "Fluff"

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Nevermind.

Yes, I edited my entire post.... cuff me and stuff me;)

I just, on second thought, figured it's best I keep my opinion to myself on this subject.

(just pretend I wasn't here..... )

.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

[glow=deepskyblue]-:¦:-
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((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*[/glow]I'm sure this has been discussed before, before my time anyway, so I'm glad Maggie resurrected it.  Sometimes when I'm browsing around over in SS, I'll see they have a ranking of 10 and the comments are glowing. I'll listen and, well...the stank of fluffing is enough to singe my nose hairs.

So I have to agree with Suzanne about whether or not you're qaulified to critique. If you're a singer wanting to really, really improve for whatever reason, even if you are seemingly good, there may be some underlying bad habits that only a trained ear could pinpoint. Not to devalue someone's honest critique if they truly feel someone is a great singer but in watching AI, sometimes I'm so impressed by someone and the judges will tear them apart. And sometimes I'll think "they were just okay," or "YUCK!" and the judges would love 'em. Now, I wasn't a big fan of Melinda's. I was for Jordon all the way!! I didn't understand the appeal of Melinda.  I thought she had a more old-fashioned, mature sound compared to Jordon's (IMO) younger, more current sound. I know people would disagree with me, but what do I know?? I only know what I personally like.

So I might listen to a song and not care for the style, the tone, any number of things but technically are they doing everything right? I wouldn't know that.  So maybe it's a case of one person's fluff is another's frankness.

Anyway, shouldn't we all be trying to improve no matter how good we think we are??

Just one little pixie's humble opinion  :)[glow=deepskyblue] -:¦:-¸.·´ -:¦:-.·´¨¨-:¦:-¸¸.·´-:¦:-..·´-:¦:-¸¸.·´*[/glow]

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((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*The Tinkermom -:¦:-[/glow][/align]

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[scroll][glow=deepskyblue]????HAVE YOU HEARD THE PIXIES SING????[/glow][/scroll]

I think that is exactly WHY this subject is brought up so often. And it's usually brought up by people who are NOT regular posters in SS, but go in there to listen once in a while. And I agree totally. Yet, on the other hand, you see some really great singers getting only a few comments and the comments they receive are "not so glowing". It's a bit of a monkey see- monkey do in there. If you listen and comment a lot, you're going to get a lot back... and people will NOT critique you honestly if someone before them hasn't. Their own personal fear of losing comments (or praise) makes them just mimmick what's been said before them. There was a person here recently, a newbie, who was AWESOME... they sounded pro, if you ask me. And they had only 5-7 comments on each song, while some subs that were pretty bad had quite a few more, and all praises. I guess because that person didn't spend a lot of time going through the list daily commenting to everyone else. They weren't "well known" enough in there to warrant people spending their time listening.  

And this is why I should really shut up about the subject.  LOL I got plenty of fluff thrown my way, and adequate comments when I sub a song... so I'm not being a "whiner". But the unfairness and the monotony of "same thing every day".... gets old. I've subbed PLENTY of songs that got uncalled for praise. But I've given my share too, so I can't complain too loudly about it, since I'm guilty as well.  



I think so too. It's only when you hear a sub that has some parts SO off key that you'd have to be literally a deaf mute to not hear the sour notes, yet the person is still told how perfect they sounded... that you have to wonder what is really going through people's heads.



I've never heard it said better... that's a great point.

I'm loving your pixie dust;) Send some my way, maybe some magic will happen in my life, Lmao.....

.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Well put Charmin and Tinkermom!  

Here it comes....

[glow=deepskyblue]-:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´  -:¦:-¸.·´*CHARM*-:¦:-.·´¨¨*CHARM*-:¦:-¸¸.·´*CHARM*-:¦:-..·´*CHARM*-:¦:-¸¸.·´*CHARM* -:¦:-¸.·´*CHARM* -:¦:-.·´¨¨*****
[/glow]

Now don't use it all at once.
Wheeeew (wiping brow) I need a little siesta now.

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[align=center][glow=deepskyblue]
-:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*The Tinkermom -:¦:-[/glow][/align]

[align=center][/align]
[scroll][glow=deepskyblue]????HAVE YOU HEARD THE PIXIES SING????[/glow][/scroll]

[glow=deepskyblue]-:¦:-
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((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*[/glow]Anyway, I'm waaay guilty of fluffing. And I know I'll keep fluffing.  I can't help it. I guess I'm a snorfer [glow=deepskyblue]-:¦:-¸¸.·´-:¦:-..·´-:¦:-¸¸.·´*[/glow]

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[align=center][glow=deepskyblue]
-:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*The Tinkermom -:¦:-[/glow][/align]

[align=center][/align]
[scroll][glow=deepskyblue]????HAVE YOU HEARD THE PIXIES SING????[/glow][/scroll]