Karaoke Forums

Edited because I was still being obnoxious

P u s s y ^^

Liar Liar panth on fire !  AM NOT !   <giggle>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ok, I'm adding my 2 cents. Having worked for someone who illegally copied and sold those karaoke disks. I agree that laws should allow for format shifts, but that is diffrent than just copying a disk, and using without paying for it.

What does the law say.....I honestly don't know, but laws don't always make since.

Look at California and gambling.

I can gamble at Indian casino...ok
I can play Poker at card clubs...ok
I can buy Lotto Tickets.............ok
I can have casino night if I'm a school/church....ok
I can buy poker chips and cards at Toys R Us....ok

But I can't own a Japaneese pinball machine (pachinko machine) because the balls may be used in lieu of money

I can't own a pachislo slot machine that uses tokens, no cash. Tokens may be used in lieu of cash.

Yet my kids can go to chuck e cheese and I pay $20.00 for tokens that in turn I can win tickets to buy a stuffed animal or toy.

So many forms of gambling are allowed by our state laws......yet gambling is illegal.

What are you gonna do? I thought karaoke was fun, based on my name you know I can't sing. I still love it. I think sometimes people on this site forget that. Karaoke is fun!!!!

I know many of you make a living doing this, but its still fun. Someone on here threatening violence is just amazing. Its a forum...people have opinions, if you dont like you don't threaten. Just move along, or deal with it.

Fun/Fun/Fun

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If you don't love what you're doing for a living, then you're making a killing. (YOURS)

It is fun, but the fun you have still has to remain legal!  Current copyright laws says absolutely not to format shift - do I agree?  No!  Do I have a computer run show, as of April I do.  If they start cracking down & busting the true format shifter, I will go back to all of my original discs.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I bought a laptop last week, and have the holster software installed. As soon as i get everything switched over i will be doing puter karaoke as well..basically out of desperation. If they made a decent player, i would have stayed with my disc set up. But it's like i said before, they will pry my back up disc out of my dead cold white rigor mortis hands, with my shotgun in the other hand and my laptop under my arm....now i have to watch for my UPS dude..he has my weekly homemade ruhmatiz medication on his truck. A musician friend of mine who played on many hit records during the 60's and 70's is all but starving to death in florida. So he makes homemade shine, and sends it to me for a few extra bucks. Not eligible for Social Security, musicians very seldom paid any. The record companies you guys are feeling so patheticly sorry for hasn't paid him a dime in royalities, and he,s to damn old to play anymore. The musicians union is next to worthless, they have there hands out for the crumbs you do have left. It's either pay those crooks or don't work. And don't forget ASCAP & BMI, scalpers...I was shocked to hear from some of my friends in Nashville that are very good musicians, they are playing for 15 bucks a night. Don't believe me? Call Bobby Semour at Nashville North Music Store,his numbers in the yellow pages in nashville.. ask him. I wonder .....do you think a crippled up old dude from florida with a walker, and a colonic bag, would make a good karaoke host?? Maybe my buddy in florida can start a new career at 76 years old...

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Sweet Little Me In Karaokeland........

One would only get royalties if they were the actual writer of the songs or had it published with his name included.  Sounds like your friend was just a studio musician that recorded with many bands.  Studio musicians get paid by the project, not commissions or royalty checks.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

He cowrote many songs with many different musicians, song writers, producution companies. He got nanda....you have no idea what musician union scale is today. You would not open your case for what musicians in nashville are getting right now. Steel guitarist Paul Franklin has played on 1000's of todays country music #1 hits. From George Strait to Reba to Big & Rich, to you name it. Pick up a CD at any...any record store today in the country music section, read the credits..you will see Paul Franklin on 99% of them. He told me he can't even afford health insurance for his family. You want to talk about project payments? during Dolly Pardon's projects, musicians got paid $15 an hour. Nashville studio musicians. Today it isn't much better. So if you think sesson musicians are making big bucks..you are in a dream world. Go pick the phone Look up the largest music store in Nashville TN. It's Bobby Seymours Nashville North. Ask to talk to Mr Seymour. Tell him George fromMichigan told you to call. Bobby has been a session steel guitarist since before you were born my friend. Ask him a few questons about how rich todays session players are getting. Competition is so keen in nashville right now, that no matter how well you play, your chances of even getting a session are mighty slim. These producers and record reps are so tight..you'd be lucky to even get a meeting with them. Many artist would love to have their own bands on sessions, but out of the question economiclly. These things are done in a matter of minutes, and very seldom today is a whole band present anywayy...sad..very sad . Nope i don't feel sorry for the record companies, produces,ASCAP, and i'm even starting to dry my tears for the artist as well....
 That's an insult to the very people that make a record a hit...it's sure not what Nashville Big Business..thinks are singers.

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Sweet Little Me In Karaokeland........

Which was another problem with even studio work,  it never was great paying, and it never was very secure.  At least these big-wig athletes can rake in droves of money during their prime when useful to big money folk, Unfortuneately too few artists in this "pig-skin and ball chasing priority entertainment nation" get paid that well (although there do exist some names with the huge symphonies that do).  Yet they are exceptionally talented, these are not common seats in small local orchestras, and we popular music genre musicians were always overworked, and starved, led to believe we were "part of the group" and than dumped when "Somebody new comes along".

A great hobby, a great love, a tough thing to make substantial money at.  When you get to a certain level you need to also have a tough hyde, something I never did  have or could acquire. I Just got angry, drunk, stoned and internalized it all. I'm not a competitive person by nature.  Well not without it taking quite a toll, or perhaps I'm exceptionally competitive but the problem is I hate losing !!!  Never learned how to lose.  There's VERY little loyalty for most in this area. It's not the luxury of the "garage band" that hangs and sticks together !

Now while I know NOTHING about Steel players, for we other instrumentalists there's a sickening high amount of talent always crawling out've the woodwork.  You just never know.  Reason studio might not pay well, is because it doesn't have to in many cases.  Since I'm no Lee Ritenour, (and few have such an established studio name) I never was too in demand.  There are plenty that WILL do session, studio for cheap..

(Another disclaimer before I start making another mistake)

.. I don't know what things are like in this realm today,  It's been a long time since I've been "active" as a pro-musician.  In the event things have changed, I don't know about it..  I never did make it into the digital world as I stated, but I'd imagine certain principles remain somewhat comparable !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Uh, it wasn't a slam.  Many people are very happy to studio work & that's all they want to do - and not actually be in a band.  So if it's an insult to you, I apologize.  Most studio musicians I know are happy just doing so.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I always loved the playing my instrument live, in the present, interacting with other musicians and a crowd, and NOT recording.  Just my thing.. Interaction was extremely important to me.  I never liked reading that much.  A lot of schooled musicians that are more theoretically grounded, many from Hartt, Berklee, Eastman, Indiana,  that I know of personally love session, those that aren't "performing types" prefer studio quite often.  I just like the "raw" stuff so-to-speak,  the crude playing without the refining and tweaking.  And, like all else it's similar to some like quantitative aspects while other of us like doing and hands-on with less technical direction. (or the qualitative areas)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I was just the opposite, I loved the studio - all aspects, recording, producing, engineering, wish I would have gotten into the mastering side as well, but that's another art within itself.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Just out've curiousity Lonnie,  when younger,  did you do well in Algebra, and some of the math required for Physics and Chemistry ?  Just wondering because I had a tough time with these areas because I had no interest in them.  Many are fascinated with how things work and have the patience to study it.  In my case (as foolish as it may seem) I always just assumed the nice looking car had an engine in it, yet never felt compelled to look or check the engine, I was always more into visual, or How it sounds NOW, types of aesthetic areas, not processes, but just the end result, but seldom the whole picture of why the sound is. I always lacked patience, and focus.  Most of the more mechanical AND technical friends I have seemed fascinated in the mathematical sequences and foundation principles of physics, Object sciences, Particle theory, etc..  I always tried to take the shortcuts, and often there aren't any.

Even in music, modal theory, and scales were killer brutal for me because *I* just didn't like those aspects, or perhaps I got psyched out because they seemed tougher. Sure I had to learn them, but they certainly never came easily for me. Just a catch 22,  didn't think I could polish these areas up, hence thought they were too tough, and for that reason never liked them because they seemed so repititiously boring but also very difficult to polish up.   Foundation principles in the Arts (and sciences alike) were always tough for me,  I just wanted to "do it now", really lazy I suppose.  Or maybe I was just never exposed to these areas by anyone enthusiastic when young,  dunno.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Nope I sucked in most aspects of math - ADHD (diagnosed a few years ago), so if it didn't interest me, I couldn't focus on it.  But I do enjoy breaking things down & figuring them out - of interest to me.  Just like when I was doing cover shows with our band, I always could hear things in the music that they couldn't pick up right away until it was pointed out to them.  I can listen & HEAR certain effects in a vocal track or the type of reverse gate reverb that was used on a drum snare.  Steven Tyler in Dream on used a long delay with the tail of the delay running into a large plate reverb.  
When in the studio it's like a painting, everything has to meld together just right, that's part of the fun to me is trying to create that acheivment.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Right,  In my case I settled for the basic reverberation options such as Hammond Spring-type, the old battery practice amp in a 55 gallon metal drum, and a buildings stairway type, a few echo type FX, and limited synthesized reverbs.  I'm slowly trying to learn by listening but I don't really have local access to watch how processes take place.  I haven't been in a studio in 20 years. While I could pick out intricate "runs" on a guitar just in terms of notes, and phrasing (in terms of cover), Alot of what I hear today I like but needless to say, haven't a clue how the sound or guitar quality is produced.. Such as, what is using compression, stereo chorusing, and types of distortion available in addition to a newer pickup swap on a guitar vs stock and even NO Fx..  New stuff's out, and I'm slowly trying to stick my head back in..

I listen for the basics of course,  Wah, mod-stomps, certain delays, but quite honestly today, that does in fact make me a fish out've water, because outside of basic music comp aspects, FX have REALLY expanded (and this is what I'm trying VERY hard to learn to listen to now) It's tough for those of us that didn't expose ourselves as studio technology evolved since the mid-80's to tell where there's a significant difference in sound quality regarding simple things such as what might be the natural quality of aftermarket higher output pickup swaps characteristics from a guitar, or active electronics, as opposed to what is being enhanced by FX,  and sophisticated rack FX combos. I suppose in not knowing what exists in many genres, I just don't hone in on that which I'm unfamiliar with.. So tunnel-vision blindsights me.

You certainly are much better rounded regarding listening to the WHOLE of a composition or seeing the intricate areas of what's in a picture.  I'm at the fundamental stages of learning what to look at when I see the picture, what to look for because music went on despite my tuning out this stuff for years, and in time I'd like to evolve to understand what's being done in studio apps, and with digital FX today. Of course I'm nowhere ready to understand how the artist composes the picture yet, if I still haven't learned what to look for when viewing the picture.  IE... You thought to listen to a snare quality, and I just assumed anything done to alter a snare quality might involve turning up treble, or a track, adjusting EQ, without understanding options and limitations. I just never thought of listening in that area for head to head comparisons !  Naturally it's VERY important for musicians and artist to have exposure to all areas as technology as the arts evolve, and this certainly means RECORDING too.  I'm VERY slowly trying to learn this stuff because I fell way out've the loop regarding rack FX units, plate reverbs,  and even the evolution of analog stomps for that matter regarding instrument-FX.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I honestly don't know what the law says about shifting formats, so I will take your word for it. My point is that laws don't always make since, and that some people on this site were a little over the top.

I will always follow the law. I was actually interogated for three hours by US Marshals because of a former employer copying discs and equipment. I had no clue what was going on. I was just a Retail Manager, who loved karaoke.

I realize that companys who manufacture karaoke disc dont sell as much as a main stream artist there fore it takes a few copies to kill that companys profits.

I also understand the investment most of you have made on karaoke. I myself have about 20-25,000 tracks of karaoke. All on disc. So I understand why some become so heated in the debate.

I was not condoning anything illegal. I just thought that telling someone to show up at your show, so you can take them out back.....was way over the top.

When I first came on this site there weren't any real arguments, just people helping people. I was gone awhile as my wife had passed from cancer, and I was adjusting to being a single dad. I come back, and it just seemed like some are spending way too much time attacking and not helping, or having good clean discussions.

We don't all have to agree, as that would be boring. A little respect of differing views would be nice. Agree or don't, but no threats and name calling.

That was it Lonman. I am very concerned where karaoke is going. I think anyone who trys it, will be a life time fan. No matter thier ability to sing.

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If you don't love what you're doing for a living, then you're making a killing. (YOURS)

Being resourceful with a search engine, you can research ALL this info.  It's not kept secretive.  Quite clear when you read about it.  You can also ask a Copyright Atty about this which is ALWAYS the wisest thing to do.



This is a WHOLE different issue, (or debate) which has little to do with "what is" and similarly "what is not" regarding "Karaoke". Problem being this argument sets up an endless loop, with some fact, mostly opinion, and ongoing rhetorical content that leads often to argument, however doesn't resolve.  It becomes ALL but "Karaoke" content.  Doesn't even stay within two or three generations of "music related" content.



Agreed !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yeah we tried to create weird sounds too.  Once stuck a small Gorilla guitar amp with a guitar running through a Rat pedal into a dryer with 1 small condensor mic & a large diaphragm condensor & recorded the result, it was fairly interesting to say the least.
As far as the basic effects, they don't really change, they do evolve into maybe more cleaner sounds or more extreme, but what you listed for your pedal choices, are still pretty standard.  The digital all in one effects units are becoming the standard for  many players simply because it's easier & they are programable.  But even these can't really touch the sound of a few good pedals.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yep,  Gorilla, and pignose amps were a blast !!!   Crazy little things we tried, such as running a pignose into a JCM stack

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

On some of those songs, do you attempt to provide the effect to the vocalist when they do it at karaoke?