Karaoke Forums

O.k., you may think this a bizarre question, but a situtation came up at a karaoke contest recently and threw the judges for a loop. On the entry forms, it has a space for gender of contestant---- and obiously there would normally be only two choices (Male or Female); however, someone attempted to enter as Transgendered--- and created somewat of a mess since for the judges and the individual.  The individual claimed that he/she should not be judged against the males or females, but rather the other transgendered. The individual also threatened to bring about legal action for discrimination (not sure if this was an empty threat, or not). Does anyone know if there is a presidence for a situation such as this. Since this was simply a preliminary round, the judges decided to allow the individual to qualify for the next round (as an extra contestant that would otherwise have not qualified), but that could raise some issues at the next level. Any thoughts?

Wow...what an interesting situation. We have done a lot of shows in alternative lifestyle clubs, but never had that particular issue. Okay...the trans-gender people WE personally know are changing from one sex to another as they feel they are a man trapped in a woman's body or the other way around. If I were a judge, I would insist the individual decide which they are. If they are transforming into a man, then they should be judged as a man. If they are transforming into a woman, then they should be judged as a woman. If they are transforming, then they really can't claim both sexes as they are trying NOT to be one of them. Good luck, whatever you end up doing.

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Keep it legal!!!

Offhand I recall the 1964 civil rights discrimination act which delt (and I haven't looked this up in YEARS) with *employment* related discrimination however many  courts and civil rights commissions ARE expanding what constitutes gender discrimination under Title 7 to include "societal expectations" of ones gender, AND this is expanding of course well beyond the work-place and schools to extracurricular and even leisurely activities.  I just don't have a clue what constitutes discrimination anymore and I alluded to this very area in a different thread where I wondered if even Karaoke or related activities where all deserve to be onstage  might even possibly bring a WHOLE new type of mindset on what is and isn't discrimination in the eyes of some regarding arts, sports, and even need for "talent", or certain abilities and attributes to get parts.  We discussed "A singer or actor LOOKING vs Not looking the part based on obesity, God given attributes, and YES even ability as to who deserves to be on-stage, BUT, in this particular case I doubt many have a clue. Outcome might ONLY hinge on whether or not the Atty is an amazingly skillful rhetorician, and the judge and jury is extremely liberal and REALLY goofy

I agree with what Revenge has stated in this particular case,  sounds as though this particular individual "wants to eat their cake, and have it too".  They wish to change their gendre, but when it suits them they don't want a gender at all, OR they wish to fall back on the gender they once were since they are in essence JUST BEING BRATS or sore sports.  All depends on how this is presented I suppose.  I would hope a court doesn't even see THIS particular case because like it or not "WE ALL have been born a gender, in this case we ARE all created equally meaning to have a gender IS NOT being discriminated against".  But heck,  A court assuming it takes such a case, and enough money and appeals process and legislators with bugs up their *** MIGHT very well say this is some form of discrimination, and this is what scares me personally..It shouldn't be wasting court time IMHO...  The person made a voluntary decision to change their gender,  Nobody is descriminating against something they didn't voluntarily opt to change.. THEY HAVE a gender like it or not !
Where is the actual discrimination ?  Is this person just entering a contest and refusing to adhere to the contest terms ?  It is a voluntary contest,  assuming it's PRIVATELY funded, like BBS's, and chatter areas that are privately owned "It is considered a priviledge to be a member, AND these ARE NOT subject to what we consider to be a democracy. Our individual constitutional rights do NOT have to be acknolwedged.  IS this a similar situation ?  In other words in some cases we CAN be discriminated against and have no easy recourse.

This is MY house, and unless I am renting or selling I DO NOT have to let you in.  I can say to your face,  "I don't want transgendered people in my home". It's MY perrogative.  Discrimination can exist against MY RIGHTS to choice too in certain settings.  This CAN really get babyish IOW

How long before I can sue blonde female supermodels for refusing to go to bed with me because I don't look as they wish me too ??     Perhaps I'm starting to LIKE this discrimination stuff  LMAO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

This is my understanding as to the legality of the situation: transgender status is not federally protected.  There can be state and local statutes (municipal or county), but they most likely address employment a/o housing discrimination based on sex and  sexual orientation and sometimes transgender status.  Also, you are not restricting the person from participating in the contest, right?  So, you are not discriminating against them.  If you said they could not compete because they are transgendered, that would be discrimination, but even so, probably still legal (in most localities).    

Unless you have a local statute that specifically addresses transgender issues, it is very unlikely that the person in question would be able to sue.  HOWEVER...this topic begs a valid and interesting question.    Why do you have to ask for the gender of the person?  In my opinion, it is not necessary.  Restructure your contest if need be.  

I actually have a friend that is transgendered and another friend with a transgendered child...so I am not uninformed about this issue.  I certainly do not have a prejudice against the transgendered...with that said, I think the person you are dealing with is looking for a soap box and would best be handled by altogether eliminating the gender issue in the competition.  Simply don't ask for the gender of your contestants.  It will take all of the wind out of you-know-who's litigious sails.

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S.A.D. = Stand and Deliver Karaoke,
Tampa Bay

Perhaps a court could turn this around

How can you sexually discriminate against a non-gender ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The way to handle that situation in a contest would be to determined by the SONG they have chosen for the contest :

Man song........MAN
Woman song.....Woman
Boy George/George Michael/Katy Lang?etc ...........?
Michael Jackson..............FREAK etc

simple as I see it

If it wants to compete & HAS to choose a gender, it would pick one gender & compete as that gender.  There was no discrimination.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I would have simply told this unique creature........to go F*** itself.......surely it could......

Nah,  That's an even different special interest category unrelated.  Hermaphroditic contestents get to sing in ALL categories, but this can make their chances of winning even tougher because they have to be able to sing better than the best female AND male, and to qualify must be able to have a range from at least Baritone to Mezzosop.  It's only fair !

If I was sponsoring a contest, and A five limbed creature with HH "jugs" stepped up to the microphone all hairy with an 18 inch kneck, I will say it right here for all to witness, and accept ALL ramification of what I say..  I wound vote the poorest score for stage presence possible !!!!!!  Why ?  Because contest votes do allow for subjectivity and I would find such a "thing" repugnant to see anywhere.  Sue me !

and in turn expect a countersuit for my PTSS that occurred when I had to look at
you.



Problem is in this particular example, we are dealing with an individual that can't even decide what species he is, or is even attracted to.  Think of all the poor heartbroken chimps walking around when he decided to switch to little boys !  AND,  Is it fair that the Chimps don't have a right to due process in court ?  They are over 97% human DNA,  shouldn't they have legal councel ?  Look at who they were exposed to.  Only fair that they go thru an objective psychiatric avaluation at Jacksons expense.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

What is the discrimination problem? This person thinks they are being dicsriminated against because their is no category for transgender on the form?  In this contest do you judge woman seperate from men?

I'm assuming everyone is judged equally, woman, men, or transgender, so there would be no discrimination of gender. If it isn't on the form you tell them to write in their gender if it isn't listed. I've filled out forms before that didn't have the correct choices listed and wrote in the answer.

Now if you do judge woman seperate from men in this contest and they get seperate prizes I would judge this individual under his or her own gender and give them a prize. If they want to be recognized for their gender let them. I can hear the announcements now Sally wins the female vocalist award, out of 50 singers. George wins the male vocalist award out of 45 males. Pat wins the transgender award out of zero other contestants. Silly !

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Hell, that's a good question.... and a pretty "unique" situation.

Ya know what? I never do contests, but next time I see one that seperates male/female categories...... I think I'll try that.  LMAO

I'll sing a low keyed song, so they'll believe me when I tell them I "used to be a man".

(my hubby would SHOOT me)  But that would be funny to try anyhow, just to see what happened;)

.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Whoa---- I didn't expect to touch off such a firestorm! Thank you for the input. When all is said and done, I think it may have been a case of sour grapes; however, there are a lot of contests that do distinguish between  Best Male and Best Female singers. And in some cases, Males and Females ARE judged separately. So, whether or not this iwill ever truly be a problem, who knows???

have to get my 2 cents in, but this is yet another (albeit unforseen) reason to stay away from karaoke contests!

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All work and no play make Homer something something

Obviously this person is just trying to stir up crap and is hoping to use her transgendered status to make some money off of discrimination settlements here and there.  That's just gross, but it's the way of the world today, everyone is victimized!

And the whole thing is stupid anyway.  Transgendered people don't consider themselves to be a third gender, they consider themselves to be the gender that they're transforming into.  I've known quite a few trannies over the years, and if they've got everything but the vagina they consider themselves to be female.  The surgery is just taking care of the final details, but they've been a woman in their head LONG before that.  I do believe that it takes the final chop before they're legally considered a female.

In any case, I would have told the tranny to kiss my (@$%&#!) and that she wasn't going to have to worry about picking a gender because anyone who had the nerve to threaten me with a lawsuit wasn't going to be singing on my equipment .

I think you hit the nail on the head !!

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I almost pi$$ed myself I have laughed so hard! Who KNEW there were SO many witty people here!!!

I was actually IN a contest where this happened. In 2002 this person competed in the women's category and placed in the top 5 out of 40,000 local entries.


The following year the contest powers had thought it through and basically said -um.....er......not to be crass- do you have a pole or a hole "down there" The answer was "a pole" So "She" was forced to compete as a "He" because "he really was a ...forget it...ya get the point! This was the year I met "her" I thought she actually WAS a woman until she came and spoke to me the next day as a "He" BTW SHE actually wore a gorgeous evening gown, sang a whitney houston song IN WHITNEY HOUSTONS KEY...and came in third in the MENs competition! I loved this PERSON! She reminded me that a performance is MORE than just singing. She was a MASTER performer that most of us could take notes from! She had a heart of gold  unfortunately- she also had terminal colon cancer and died almost a year to the day from her last competition!

It sounds like the previously mentioned transgendered person in the original post wanted  to win in a contest category of "1". Where is the challenge in THAT??? From now on- how bout having a "male and female" winner or just a "best singer" overall? If a transgender transsexual, transvestite, hemaphrodite, or alien comes and wants to enter tell them to pick the one that "Most closely" represents them. I am very sympathetic towards MANY of the alternate lifestyles community but no matter what you have "down there" if you're gonna act like an azzhole remember that said orifice HAS NO GENDER everyone has one and they DON'T qualify for special treatment! If they don't like it I'm with Johnny Reverb on this one.....
[highlight=cyan] I would have simply told this unique creature........to go F*** itself.......surely it could......   [/highlight]

MEANWHILE I am STILL trying my hardest to laugh said orifice OFF at the moment!

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This happened at my little bar a few weeks ago. One of the customers went to the owner and asked what was the policy on men in the ladies room. He inquired why and was told there was a man changing clothes to lok like a woman in the ladies rom. The owner asked if he/she was causing a problem. Hse customer said no and the owner said to let it be.  

When it came time for the judges to decide who had won, news had gotten to them that this was a transgendered person and they could not decide which category to put them in. needless to say he/she didn't win even though "I" thought they were the best. I knew he/she wouldn't...... this is a pretty redneck bar, I don't think anyone had ever seen anything like it before.  

I like the hole or pole. and I believe this person should have been judged as a man since that is the way he came in. He was most likely a female impersonator.

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Mine got pulled.....I said nothing worse than what's been said here already.....you had to use your imagination to understand, nothing blatant, unless you knew what slang terms for things are...any children that understood it should have their parents spanked......just trying to liven things up........but hey.....you da man......edit....on second thought,  I guess I got a bit carried away.....I have a warped sense of humor.......sorry for that post, it was in bad taste

Unnn...(raised eyebrow) Given the path the particular thread has followed I'd be very careful about starting a post with "mine got pulled"  :rotflmao:

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Hey, hey, Paula...... ......I'm just a dirty ol' man.......and the only thing on me worth pulling.....is my finger.......and you know what happens then.......but after that, I do that little old man dance, that little old me do, when they trick somebody into pulling their finger......