Karaoke Forums

How companies treat the dead horse


Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.

Sorry, I forgot the link...

It's so lonesome in the saddle since my horse died'''''

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Save a horse ride a cowboy  LMAO

Sorry I couldn't help myself

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I don't think you have a CLUE what I feel about you. Or anybody on here for that matter. A few typed phrases from me hardly qualifies for how I feel about anybody.And I could honestly care less what some people think of me. The only ones that I WOULD care about are people I have hung out with... Lonman, Swingcat... if you KNOW me, then fine, I'll care what you choose to believe about me. Oh, so you don't misquote or have a typo huh? Revenge has agreed with parts of other people's stances, and given a nod here and there. She's HARDLY the type that think others are always wrong. She's pointing out (accurately I might add) where the copyright law IS being violated. Two things...
1.) I do believe in every one of her times when she's gone to an attack, and gotten a bit personal, it's because she was called an idiot or a fanatic. So it's perfectly okay for you or others to slam her and not have her retaliate??
2.) I also think that every time I've ever gotten upset is when people have called me a THIEF for my conversion... where I've been equated with the ebay hard drivers or multiriggers... YES, I freely admit that was irritating!don't worry... I didn't have to!

And have a pleasant day yourself!

Revenge Ent, FYI. If  I thought you were at anytime on the losing end of the stick, I would have been glad to jump in and help.

I was involved with the last thread of similar topic and asked a question prior to it getting locked. I truly hope that it will be answered honestly without taking a beating.

I have read this entire thread including most of the stuff not relevant to the topic and pose this question. With the lawsuit between whoever and whoever (got slammed last time because I used the wrong plaintif and defendant) in reference to changing format from disc to MP3+g or whatever, what do you think will happen to the MP3 music industry? Now days with the IPOD and Cell phones that can use MP3's?

Is the Copywrite law different for Karaoke Disc's different than the discs from the original artists?

You know I read somewhere once that anytime an artists or better yet songwriters song has been played they are supposed to get royalties. Large Clubs and Radio stations pay a flat fee to folks like ASCAP and BMI for the songs that they play and none to my knowledge is paid from the use of Karaoke.

I tried to contact ASCAP and BMI once to find out how to go about paying these royalties and got no response after several attempts. These are the two major companies involved with collecting royalties. If they are not concerned with royalties from the little DJ/KJ then the only issue I see the Karaoke industry having is that they want us to destroy our discs so that we have to replace them.

I am very curious as to how this will all play out and how it might effect the rest of the music industry.

Your Questions are valid and interesting John, and should be given the same respect as anyone else's.   I think the mp3 & ipod market will not be affected because you can even get Karaoke for your Ipod these days....But that falls under personal use...even though that would be thought of as format shifting or copying to another device...It still falls under personal use.

The issue that is at hand here is karaoke for commercial use!!! It seems its ok to convert, copy, format shift for personal use...."But Not for Commercial use"!!

This is what makes me upset about this whole stupid subject.....It's ok for personal use....But not for Commercial use???  To me that alone tells me that it is all a money issue.....Greed!!!!!  But then thats just my opinion  :)

Maybe someone else here can explain it much better, because I myself would like to know the truth as to why it is ok for "personal but not commercial use".

It would make more sense to me if it were the other way around!!!

But what do I know....  :spin:

Now if you want to have an intelligent discussion about it Cavs and others establish a royaltiy and agreement with the cd manus. After each download the royalty and manus cut are paid. Karaoke is no different from mp3 e-books movies or anything else. Cavs have been downloading for 3 or 4 years. I do not know what part of the operation you think is illegal but if you think they are stealing from the manus. They wouls have been busted before now.

There isnt a sucessful business that gets into petty fights on forums and makes outlandish statements that slanderous and are based upon ignorance or bias. Posts on this forum make googles top 5 in minutes If you have a business web site and are trying to promote your business when people google for your site these posts come up before your site does.. You dont believe me put in some key words about your site and bingo here you this thread above your sits or right below your sits in the first page. It makes no difference whether you are right or wrong but it sure gives potential customers a good idea how you will treat them...

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Now if you want to have an intelligent discussion about it Cavs and others establish a royaltiy and agreement with the cd manus. After each download the royalty and manus cut are paid. Karaoke is no different from mp3 e-books movies or anything else. Cavs have been downloading for 3 or 4 years. I do not know what part of the operation you think is illegal but if you think they are stealing from the manus. They wouls have been busted before now.

There isnt a sucessful business that gets into petty fights on forums and makes outlandish statements that slanderous and are based upon ignorance or bias. Posts on this forum make googles top 5 in minutes If you have a business web site and are trying to promote your business when people google for your site these posts come up before your site does.. You dont believe me put in some key words about your site and bingo here you this thread above your sits or right below your sits in the first page. It makes no difference whether you are right or wrong but it sure gives potential customers a good idea how you will treat them...

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The entire subject of  “format shifting” and or “making copies” of  legally purchased CDG’s is indeed a MONEY thing.      A BIG MONEY THING

All these laws and letters and discussions are to prevent some of these MANUS from selling karaoke songs without paying the required fees.  They are also out there to prevent someone with a web based business from selling MP3+G’S without paying again the proper royalties.   And finally someone from selling some loaded hard drives for hundreds and hundreds of dollars,. Again without paying the licenses and royalties.

What makes me grin reading these discussions is that some people really think that the BIG MONEY LAWYERS of BMI and ASCAP are  really worried about some small time KJ working for $150 in the back of some dimly lit bar or club.

Wake Up! ……  The karaoke police are not going to knock down your door and confiscate your discs  unless you are PIRATING BIG TIME.  Or possible running multiple rigs etc. ….  GO ahead and run your KJ biz on a laptop !  Go ahead and make copies of your CDG’s to protect your investment and STOP  SQUABBLING with each other on a site that should be used for CONTRUCTIVE discussions and IDEAS to promote Karaoke !!!!  ….WHEEEEW Glad I got that off my chest !

HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY WEEKEND AND A HEALTHY SUMMER

Famous Music, LLC v. CAVS USA, Inc. et al
Plaintiff: Famous Music, LLC
Defendant: CAVS USA, Inc., CAVS Multimedia, Inc. and Aaron K. Han

Case Number: 3:2007cv00430
Filed: April 17, 2007

Court: Tennessee Middle District Court
Office: Nashville Office
County: Davidson
Presiding Judge: District Judge Aleta A. Trauger
Referring Judge: Magistrate Judge E. Clifton Knowles

Nature of Suit: Intellectual Property - Copyrights
Cause: 17:0101 Copyright Infringement
Jurisdiction: Federal Question
Jury Demanded By: Plaintiff
Amount Demanded: $999,000.00

They are only asking for $999,000.00 ?????

Looks kinda lame to me......

I was under the impression that this was something huge!!!

Google famous music cavs They have tried several times and havnt won yet..

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After what I just saw.....I agree with you Jamkaraoke!!!  :hi5:

How funny....

BTW.....How can SoundChoice or anyone for that matter, Complain about format shifting when they them selves offer karaoke on demand through cable services....  :looney:  LMAO

You too jam luvya man good post...

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You too jam luvya man.. good post...

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I was going to say you are wrong as there are no guarantees, but generally speaking you may be right. However, haven't there already been some cases where KJ's or bar owners were requested to cease and desist or else? Wasn't that happening in Phoenix as I recall from other threads?

Like I say generally speaking you are probably right. It's really about putting legal resources where they will get the biggest return for their effort. It's also about how easy it is to enforce. You may all recall the organization going after Napster and MP3 downloaders etc in the general public last few years. That's been kind of quiet for awhile now, but basically there were some arrests and legal suits where parents were being charged fines for downloading done by their children unbeknownst to them. The reason this was done wasn't really because they were going after everybody and they could really fine everyone. It was to stifle the amount of traffic in it, and put the 'fear of God' in people so not as many would be involved in it. It was also to go after some of the worse offenders.

So, my point here is that there could be some "karaoke police" going after some KJ's / bars to instill "the fear" but likely (as you mention) it wouldn't be everyone, and it wouldn't be possible (or likely profitable) to go after everyone.

On the other hand everyone should remember that while we could care less about the law, and disagree with it, and disregard it, it only takes one day in jail to ruin your whole day.  LMAO

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The Truth Is Out There

I think what you generally hear about is that some BARS or CLUBS do not pay their required fees and licenses and get fined etc.  Those fees they should be paying for all entertainment.   I think its why you see and hear about some clubs and bars NOT ADVERTISING for Karaoke and or entertainment. Its the 1st thing that BMI and ASCAP look for...fined a place advertising and then see if they are up to date with the fees > ?  MAYBE!

Well it appears that the problem with Cavs site has nothing to do with the lawsuit. They are claiming they are revamping it with download software program and it is going through some growing pains.

I did notice though their sellection of songs is slim. They said that is because of copy right. So yes they are legit.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Exactly what happened at one of my clubs.  We were running karaoke for several months with no outside advertising, then I had a rather large banner made for karaoke & kid karaoke night - about a week later, they had a visit from ASCAP with all the applications & literature/brochures stating that they needed to fill out the application & send it in along with the check to the address on the application (which was ASCAP corporate).  They made me take down all outside advertising & pull any print ad I had paid for (yes I got reimbursed).  I quit shortly after that, no advertising, nobody knows you are there.

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Well you never know - Music Maestro used to claim they were completely legal & they are now out of business for reproducing unlicensed music.

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