Karaoke Forums

Hello everyone, need to throw an idea or two out there for responses.

I have the Yamaha EMX512SC -S115V PA Package and want to upgrade it to supply a more powerful entertainment system for my bar. I am so impressed with the original speakers that I want to aquire 2 more of the same for the other side of the bar...along with the proper cable to allow interference free music and abundance of power to the other side. The outputs for these speakers is the NEUTRIK NL4 type plugs....(why are these different than the phone ouput jacks?)
I will be running the wire overhead and thru the ceiling...away from the games and outside light transformers that have caused me interference with the "surround sound " setup currently in use. I'm hoping to have the same sound on both sides of the bar. Will there be any interference problems using the back of the monitor plug ins and upgraded cable? I have'nt been happy with the other sides sound for quite a while, and I want to remedy that. Because the wire would go back up the wall and thru the ceiling, it looks to be a 50 - 70 foot run at the longest end.

When this is complete, my bar will ROCK!!!            :yes:

My other question has to do with a monitor speaker...I assume from reading my books (Mixer owner manual/Musician's Friend) that this is for vocals improvement.
Which one do you reccomend for my system?  I don't know how to match for my system. I assume I need one for better vocals of my singers. Where is it placed, on the floor next to the singer , or farther away?

Lastly, I'm getting some people that want to dance, I need some good lights to help set the place off for encouragement. Best bang for the buck. I asked this before and will revisit that thread, just wanted to re-ask. I remember a "mushroom" light that was impressive, but is that the best bang for the buck. Will have to get 2 or 3 to allow alternate usage due to needed cooling between run times.

As always, thanks for the responses ahead of time...


                                                                                          bigjim56

Adding 2 more speaker will effectively double the perceptive volume level of the entire system.  More speaker = more coverage, it will also allow for the 4 ohm rating of your amp @ 500 watts per channel as opposed to the 350 watts it's currently pushing into the 2 8 ohm speakers.  The S115V has a 'through' output so you can run Speakon to the first speaker & run the second cable from the second connector on the back of the speaker to the second speaker.  Speakon connectors are different from phone jacks as they give a more solid connection & they handle much more power.



As long as you get a heavy guage wire for your speaker cords - for that length, i'd go with a minimum 12 guage or even the heavier 10 guage.



If the singer can hear the mains without a problem, you don't really need a monitor, if they are having trouble hearing the main, then you may want to consider one.  If you get one, it would be placed in front of the singer aiming up.



www.pssl.com for your lights.  Aim spinning/flashing lights on the dance floor.  If you have a stage/singer area, you can get some par cans that can be adjusted.

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it will also allow for the 4 ohm rating of your amp @ 500 watts per channel as opposed to the 350 watts it's currently pushing into the 2 8 ohm speakers.

Does that mean better sound? I'm lost on that one.

If I use the Speakon cable connects from mixer to 1st speaker, then 10 Gauge  cable from there to second speakers, will I have seperate volume control for the far side? We have dinner parties or Texas Hold "Em over there and sometimes music is not desired much, a background style is desired.  Seperate volume control is desireble.

As far as the monitor, no one is complaining. Only complaint was cheap mics and I picked up 2 Shure SM - 58's for that. Still using mix of old/new mics now, 1 SM - 58 for backup, some people prefer the old mics. The cables appear to have been the problem earlier, bought a 10 pack for immediate use and used the idea from here of cutting 6" off the mic end and resoldering and it worked, all of my cables are good now.

I have a 4 par can set to the stage with a controller for singer lighting. Looks good.
Other bar lights close by put off good amount of light.

Thanks for the reply Lonman


                                                                                 bigjim56

With the 2 8 ohm speakers you are running now, your amp is only pushing 350 watts per channel.  WHen you add an extra 8 ohm speaker to each side, you lower the impedance (ohms) to 4 ohms, which will now allow your amp to push 500 watts per channel.  Still underpowering the speakers as a whole - actually even more so now that I think about it, as the S115 need 500 watts 'program' at 8 ohms to sound their best.  When you connect them in parallel, they will now require 1000 watts 'program' at 4 ohms, the amp will only be pushing 500 watts.  BUT, you probably will not have to turn the system up quite as loud as you did before as again - more speakers = more coverage & will appear louder at the the same volume.



I would use the same guage throughout the whole system, but being it would be a longer run, you'd want heavier guage from the amp to the last speaker in the chain.  
I am assuming you are running in stereo mode now.  I believe if you run in Main & Monitor mode, you would be able to have an individual volume for the back speakers - just make sure both of those speakers are on the monitor side.  Now in doing this, you also have to do an individual mix via the channel strips monitor send.  Which means anytime you adjust you channel volume, you now have a monitor volume to adjust as well per that channel.
An easier way would be to just get a separate power amp for the new speakers & Plug into the main output on the front of the unit.  This will give the same signal as the main stereo signal now without having to do the separate monitor mix.  THis will also allow you to be able to adjust the volume individually.



Spend the money, get lifetime warrantied mic cords - worth it in the long run & save time from having to open it up, cut it down, strip, take off old solder, resolder new leads, etc...With the lifetime warranty, it goes bad you take it back & exchange for a new one.  I haven't paid for a new mic cable in almost 7 years now & replace them at least 2 times per year.

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What about the other Neutrik plug ins in the back of the monitor? Would'nt using those give me seperate volume control for the other side. There's 2 master volume controls on the mixer (monitor & main), I assumed 1 was for the front, the other for the back (opposite side of bar), I thought they were correlated to the plug ins in the back.
My owners manual shows 2-channel parallel connection using all 4 plug ins on the back. Wouldn't I be buying a second amp to do the second channels job? I assumed this mixer could handle the four S115V speakers, and by expanding the speaker coverage allowing a more clear and balanced listening experience throughout the bar.

I understand adjusting the fluxuation of the channel volume requires readjustment of the monitor volume. Have already discussed w/wife...thumbs up/thumbs/down or OK hand signals for quick adjustments to the monitor side from my desk.  

Thought long and hard on the lifetime warranty cords but got into a crunch and needed some FAST, so I bought the 10 lot with the Shure - 58's to allow for free shipping (didn't see any lifetime cords advertised in Musicians Friend)....if this bar were to take off, I would definetely get the lifetime cords, but the jury is still deliberating.  Less than a year left for the verdict. I will have a kick--- entertainment system to put in my basement if no one buys our interest!

Thanks again Lonman,

                                                                                   bigjim56

Well I thought I explained it.  I'll try again.  
You can configure your amp to run just mains through the A & B channel which would not give you individual volume control over the A & B, just a combined volume - which is probably how you have it now?  Or it can be set up to run mains & monitor, mains A channel & Monitor B channel.  THis will give you individual controls between the 2 channels, BUT you need to completely have a separate mix on the channel strips for the monitor output to work - the little blue knob marked monitor right above the efx knob.  WHich means when you adjust your mic up or down, you ALSO need to adjust the monitor send on that channel up/down as well as just making the main gain adjustment will not affect the monitor output in anyway - it's specifically designed that way.  So in a sense, you will now be making 2 mixes - 1 for you main speakers & 1 for your back speakers.  That may or may not be a big deal, but when you are busy & forget & need to adjust you music down & your vocals up, it may sound great in the front but would sound like all vocals & no music in the back if you forget to adjust the monitor sends on the vocal & music channels.
I was saying by getting another amp will make things easier as you will have the same mix you have now, without having to make a entirely second set of adjustments, have complete volume control over the back room independant from the mains.



Then if you are already doing it this way, then there would be no difference.  Run the mains on Channel A & The back speakers on Channel B (Monitor).  Whatever adjustment you make on the main gain knob per channel, make the same adjustment for the monitor send of that channel as well.


All of these cables have lifetime warranty from MF.  Mogami is the best, as they are no condition lifetime warranty.  The Horizon are limited lifetime warranty.  These are just a few, there are several more.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=338010
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=336360
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=339037
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=338011

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Lonman,

Thanks again for the feedback. Still new at this as you can see. I don't want to fork out big $$ just to do it wrong. I don't fully understand the watts to ohm lingo that you use, but I can produce a hard copy and with repetitive scanning at work and the bar, it will sink in.

Just one more question to ask on the speaker upgrade subject and I'll give it a rest. Which setup would give me the better sound? Setting them up using the Speakon method (from the amp to 1st speaker, then onward to the other left or right speaker) - OR - by using the 4 outputs on back and each speaker having its own individual feed? If no music is desired on opposite side, unplugging of the run-on feed is easily accomplished.

I'm after the best sound, if the 4 feed output is inferior in sound to the Speakon method, then the 4 feed output it is. However I hook it up, running it will take adjustments that I'm sure I can deal with, and will teach to other fill-ins as well.

Lastly, the link on the lights is appreciated, what do you reccomend for the $100-200
price range? I will be getting 2 or 3 w/controller. Which do you use? I have a small dance floor (10' X 10'), but tables and chairs can be easily moved to make it bigger
if need be. Dancing can also be on other side, so may put one over there as well.

As always, Thanks...

                                                                                   bigjim56

As long as you got good heavy guage cords, it won't matter either way.  Keep it all Speakon if you can, better connection & handles more power.  



For the dance floor you just need a few things that can be turned off & on when needed.
A package such as
http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl~waGroup1datarq~[waGroup1datarq]~eqint_KeyIDdata~34267~itemNumber~[item_number]~UID~2007051712455906~disp_IMG~Y~catgroup~%5BcatGroup%5D
would be a decent little set up for your dance floor.  Although I don't care for the fog, it does add a nice effect to the lights in action.  Got to be careful, some people are allergic to it.

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Thanks for the feedback Lonman, it is much appreciated.  


                                                                                 bigjim56