Karaoke Forums

From my readings from a while ago... i guess feedback is the issue with the sound mic to speaker then speaker back to mic.... How do I "battle" that issue?  is it just hard to adjust in a small room ? or do I have to EQ something?

It's all speaker placement.  Where are the speakers in relation to the mic?  Is the mic directed at the speakers?  High frequency squeal being heard or low frequency rumble?  Mics may be too hot (turned up too high).  Eq setting could be improper.

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If you get the volume loud enough, especially in a small room, the sound will bounce around and get back into the mic.  

An EQ can help; you’ve got to find the frequency that’s hottest and reduce it.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

2 cents:  In a really small or tightly laid out venue, speaker placement may not be under your complete control. In such a case I use what are sometimes known as " 1 inch" mics.  These are mics with an extremely tight pick-up range, and have to be held much closer than normal for use, hence the nickname.  Mics are generally not sold with this designation, so you would have to check specs.  An example for this post is the Gemeni UF-8264.  I have sung with this mic standing in front of a speaker that was literally over my shoulder with no feedback.  


So:   Speaker placement, proper mics, and don't forget the limiters just in case...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Well phil is actually talking about his living room, but you are right.  Although have never heard of the term '1" mic'?
Tight pickup patter mics such as a 'hyper cardioid' or 'super cardioid' have tighter pickup patterns - however some karaoke people that are inexperienced with mics may think that these don't sound as good because you HAVE to sing directly into the top - not off to the side or with the mic pointing straight up as many tend to do - it will create a muted, lower sounding signal, muddy effect - They are a little more expensive than regular cardioid that will be more generous to the sound they pick up - partly why some of the cheaper mics tend to be karaoke favorites - people perceive them to be able to pick up more signal.
Limiters won't really help with feedback.

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thanks... so i guess "hot" means the freqency that is MOST sensitive as far as the speaker picking it up?  how do exactly test it out without going deaf?  should i just the 7 band EQ to eq everything? or individual channels? so any of those "1 inch" mic you guys recommend?

By 'hot' I mean the mic channel volume turned up too high along with the main amp volume being too high.
To get rid of it you'd need a good eq (31 band eq's are best for feedback control - anything less is primarily tonal control only).  Flatline the eq, put the mic in the place where the singer will be, then turn your system up until you start hearing feedback, find that frequency on the eq & turn it down, then repeat until you turned down about 5 frequencies then return your main volume to a normal listening level, if it's still too low, then there are other problems.
Adjust your mic channel & music channel eq straight up, flatline your 7 band (in the middle '0' line).  Then make subtle adjustments to the music first - through the music channel.  Once you get the music sounding good, then do the same for the mic.  You really shouldn't have to adjust the 7 band, but if you are still getting feedback, then do a subtle cut (downward) of the band closest to the feedback.  You can find this by moving each eq slider down a little, if there is no effect, move it back to position, then move on to the next until you find the problem frequency.
1" mic???  Cardioid is the proper term.  There are 3 different types.  Page 8 & 9 expalin them.

http://www.shure.com/stellent/groups/pu ... und_ea.pdf

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My inexperience (and cheapness) led me to buy the Behringer 31-band EQs that have the feedback detection.  

How that works is, the lights on the little sliders flash with the music, and the more intense the frequency, the brighter the light.  You can see which frequency is flashing the brightest, and that’s where your feedback will come from.  

As Lonman suggested, 31-band EQs are better because you can better isolate that particular offending frequency without effecting a larger portion of the music.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... 3102.html#

something like that unit perhaps?

Yes, exactly like that.   I have the FBQ6200 as well, 45mm faders and a few extra features one might be interested in.  

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=182492

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

so I plug these units into the mixer amp I assume?  Are they pretty effective in a small room?  or should I do a bit more research on the mics?

Maybe I wasn't thinking right here... you may be using a powered mixer.  

I’m not sure how to, or if you can incorporate an external EQ for that.  Maybe someone else here knows.  


Sorry.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

You are using that Phonic mixer correct?  
Since it is mono output you will only be using 1 channel of that eq.
On the front of the mixer, toward the bottom, there is a 1/4" "Main" out.  Plug this into the input on the eq.
Take the output on the eq & route it to "Aux In" on the front of the mixer.

In a small room, there may be nothing you can do if you want any kind of volume, depending on the room itself.  You can use the eq to tune the room the best you can by ringing out all the bad frequencies as I described in the earlier post & this should help quite a bit.

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Before you go out and spend more money, try:

#1: singing further away from the speakers (ideally, you should sing from behind them!!)
#2: keep the "butt" end of the mic always pointed towards the speakers
#3: never point the end of the mic you sing into at the speakers.
#4: never cover the top of the mic with your hand
#4: turn the mic volume and/or gain down lower and just sing a bit louder to compensate

Those simple methods will eliminate most feedback!!

May I also suggest you do a google search and do a little research to learn exactly what feedback is and how it occurs. People know what it sounds like, but don't understand the variables that cause that sound. Once you understand the sound loop that actually causes feedback, it is pretty simple to figure out on the spot exactly what is causing it and fix it within seconds even without EQing.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

   You are right, of course, but I wasn't thinking so much of eliminating the problem here so much as protection from it....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

well if you're familiar with my situation.. you might not ... my room is like a standard living room size... 17*12 or something like that... just imagine a good size DINING room that fits a dinning table with space for chairs... anyways we can only sit so far away from the speakers.. esp when there's 6 or7 of us in the room... i got some speaker stands so I try to stand the speaker a couple of feet higher than if we were sitting and singing.. it seems the feedback is much more apparent when 2 people sing at the same time .. .anyways just looking for ideas...

Besides proper speaker placement & mic placement, an eq is your next best defense against feedback.

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