Karaoke Forums

dahlin I would laugh at your wife as I laugh at you  LMAO

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

to be honest I am inately suspicious of any woman who uses revenge in her name...it sounds hormonal and unbalanced

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Aw.... Thanks  <blush>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

what are you thanking me for? for the hormonal unbalanced remark?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Sorry Vicki,  For some strange reason when I posted that ONLY your prior post was visible to me.



The following post didn't exist yet.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Nope,  What they'll do is go after the Ebayer selling Millions of Pirated CD-G's and use the likes of such a case in hopes of making the bigger theft case the sacrificial lamb.  Your example is flawed for the following reason.  A court will VERY unlikely charge the 18 year old sampling a cookie from an opened bag at the grocery store for the cumulative crimes of ALL the looting that took place during the hurricane flooding in New Orleans.  That'd be totally unreasonable.  What you refuse to take into consideration is what courts do take into consideration, "Reasonable", and "Reasonably" are factored into EACH case individually.





Do you mean if they:
Threaten to press charges assuming I BELIEVE I have every right to back up my investment that would only leave my home in the case of theft of my originals ?  Is that what you are asking ?

A sheepish person would cower and feel because they are being "charged" with a crime, they must be guilty of "a crime".  A person willing to fight for what they believe is right (those that have implimented change) would not take such a perspective, they'd refuse to be made into a victim.  MOST would cower. In such a case I would not, this is EXACTLY what I meant by "willing to take the consequences if caught". I would be !   But my intent would not be to get caught, or do anything extreme. I don't believe I'd be caught and accused of wrong-doing because I don't believe backing up originals and investments within reason and when possible is doing something wrong, I'm not paranoic, assuming I was I'd seek help for that.
Quite honestly I'd attempt to use a case such as this advantageously, and do-so IF charged !  Laws need to change somehow !  Sometimes "getting busted" is an open door that can be used in hopes of legislating something despite whether or not the individual is the defendant. Not the choice way, but not much more of a headache.  There is NOTHING wrong with defending yourself assuming you believe in your cause, DO NOT believe anything you do adversely affects those charging you etc. And, logically you aren't going to be able to convince me that I shouldn't back my investment (assuming the only other option is to spend an inordinate sum of money).  I've stated, and others have as well "WE DO NOT BELIEVE we are harming others by protecting ourselves." We paid for our originals and aren't doing anything for additional profit !  This isn't even reasonable to me.  If I buy the originals I am going to attempt to protect them.  Using backups to me ONLY in the event of theft IMHO IS preserving my originals.  TO BAD if you think this is wrong,  especially considering my only other option to be "legal" is to spend money that COULD in fact put two kids thru a year of college each.

When two people have a moderate income, and a hobby or even part-time job to TRY to make ends meet, when BOTH are struggling and have kids to put thru school, given cases of grey within law with NO definitive "This is why you can not do this"  ONLY THE FOOLISH person will spend 40 thousand dollars that they DO NOT have to spend instead of backing up their investment IMO.

I say this,  I believe it, it is MY opinion, you can call it unreasonable Revenge Karaoke, but based upon YOUR OWN histrionic lecturing, and points regarding kids and college,  struggling with work and income, coupled with your overall attempt at substantiating something that's currently baseless, your inability to do-so logically,  I think you are foolish spending money you do not have.

This is my opinion.  Not based on legalities,  based on common sense !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Like I said, you want to see case law, send all of the manufacturers information where to find you and your rigs and tell them you are using THEIR music in your hard drive and your discs are never at your shows and you don't care that it is illegal. If they choose to sue you, you will get to be a PART of case law if you, as you say, would not back down and settle before it went to court.

And, of course you are going to "go play in another thread." If what I was doing were illegal and it was proven to me, I would probably stop trying to justify it, too.

But you all go ahead and keep costing the industry money and see how much longer there is quality music available. How many manufacturers have gone out of business since all of the burning and ripping and infringing started? How many good ones are left? When all this is said and done, I would like to still be able to buy decent, up to date, karaoke music. If no one is making up to date karaoke music anymore, what exactly do you all intend to use at your shows? THAT is what the law is protecting - no matter how stupid you all think that law is.

And funny how you all say you "turned in illegal KJs" and "begged the manufacturers to do something about them" (knowing they would be using the same law you are now scoffing at to stop them, by the way) and when the finger gets pointed at you, suddenly it's a bad law and the manufacturers don't care and the law doesn't apply to you. They did what you wanted. They tried to put a stop to all of the illegal karaoke out there. If you want it stopped, you have to play by the rules of the game. If you want to keep losing shows and income, play the way you want, but then you can't really cry foul if you get in trouble for it, can you?

I'm not a whistle blower in areas where I believe current law is absurd, or non-existent.  I've never turned in ANYONE in the entertainment industry.  I've discussed things with them, vented but never TURNED THEM IN.  Don't include me in such a category. I live by "do unto others",  which also means I will not allow myself to be screwed by big-business.  While others have likely had valid reasons to "turn in others",  I have not, so again, stop with your sweeping and unfounded generalizations and present something with substance.

You are just going around and around in circles Revenge entertainment.  There's no actual solid reasoning behind anything you state that extends beyond YOUR OWN feelings.  Nah,  I won't blow the whistle on myself either, that would be quite foolish would it not ?

This isn't even fun anymore.  "fear based" reasoning, give me a break..  "They will come and get me"    LMAO

Later




OK,  but only after I run out've tinfoil to chew on, get tired of poking myself in the eye with this sharp stick and finish trying to reason with someone like you (which just happens to be first on the list of masochistic things I should stop doing)


Opinions should be respected, they usually are. Until someone comes along with an opinion, throws it obsessively at others using lame guises such as "this is fact". The opinion might still be respected, but the individual is terribly annoying.


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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Anyone interested in starting a Class action Lawsuit against Sound Choice & Stellar for Industry Manipulation? This has Hurt the Karaoke Business as much as anything else.

If anyone hears of a lawsuit starting over this, I will sign up!!!!!!

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Elvis, ---Go after the real offenders! Has anyone thought about going after the online RETAILERS that have fattened their bank accounts selling you hard drive and laptop systems they advertised for "Commercial Use" knowing that that wasn't true?    CAVS is now offering the server system and they tell you YOU ONLY NEED TO BUY ONE LIBRARY for 10 systems!!!!!  I cannot believe they are openly now encouraging piracy!  Read between the lines on that one those of you with CAVS systems!

Go ahead, check out the BIG retailers online...they all STILL offer these products openly BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING YOU GUYS ARE BUYING and there are BIG $$$$$ involved!!!!  Disc sales are in the tank because of all the piracy and they keep selling this stuff knowing that it's NOT RIGHT!  You ALL  know which retailers I am talking about!  Has anyone thought about grilling THEM about why they promote these products for KJ's knowing they are not appropriate for that use?  Don't believe them when they say "We didn't know it wasn't legal".   They don't care about you--they only care about YOUR MONEY! ---they don't care if you get busted and cannot get employment once this crackdown starts....and you guys keep buying from THEM!  I hear all this talk about being angry at SC and Stellar, but I don't hear much talk about being angry at the guys who sold you this stuff in the first place!

There are a lot of other retailers out there who have NOT participated in this digital feeding frenzy---Those of you who buy karaoke discs should support THOSE retailers.
 
The only thing Sound Choice and Stellar have done wrong is waited TOO long to go after this.   They should have done this 4-5 years ago when this whole mess started to get out of control.   Legit KJ's, pull out your discs and USE THEM!  Anyone can say "all my discs are at home"----RIGHT! Anyone can haul a couple hundred discs to a show and put them next to their CAVS system which is loaded with 120,000 songs and CLAIM "see, I have all the discs"....YEAH, RIGHT!    Let the industry clean itself up, then they will come up with a digital alternative that cannot be duplicated or abused.

Couldn't do that, you must not read very well, I don't do clubs anymore, private shows only.  Not going to invite anyone to a private show i'm working.



You STILL have YET to provide an adequate explanation as to HOW someone like myself ie BUYING ALL MY DISCS and transferring them to computer is costing ANYONE money?  I'm waiting!!!  You bring up replacement discs...again, I have never had to replace a disc yet & YES I ran all originals since '93 to last year.  Replacement discs BC from SC has even admitted in their own forum are nearly non-existant & they do not make money off of them...so THAT arguement is out the window.
So HOW am I costing the manu money?  
How many manufacturers have gone out of business...well you should ask the ones that went out of business due to their improperly recording & releasing songs without proper licensing...MM comes to mind, Priddis allegidly same reason.  Even CB, Stellar & SC have been sued for the same practices.  But they are still left for now.  What companies are you referring to that have shut down due to strictly piracy?  The above 3 are probably the better of them all & they are still in business.  The others that have dropped off were all garbage to begin with.
So I ask again, HOW am I costing the manus money when I bought each & every disc I own, ran the originals for 13 years, never having to replace a disc to date, just transferred to computer last year.  Still waiting for a GOOD answer!



I've turned in several companies that are running multiple rigs without a real disc to show.  I turned in one store that would open all their discs, copy them, re shrink wrap them & sell them for new, all the while dropping his copies into several CAVS units & running multiple shows.  I've reported several ebay auctions for loaded hard drives...this was all in the last 8 years, some several times over...THESE are the type of people that are costing the industry & hurting karaoke...they don't even BUY discs, so how am I...one that PURCHASES each & every disc, transfers them to a computer for playback, WHILE the discs are with me at the show, yes I can prove each and every song in the computer will coincide with each and every song on my discs...costing the manus money?  I don't understand your logic!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

So if I understand the crux of your posts, (Ken & Revenge) ....1. Everyone knows who the retailers are that are breaking the law.  (CAVS)  2. The karaoke companies such as Stellar and SC accept blame for "waiting" to long to do anything.  Yet those of us who "actually" BUY the legit merchandise and only use a 1:1 ratio are supposed to be the only ones who should suffer????

In addition, I should go "back in time" as far as tech is concerned because by me playing my "NO LONGER PRODUCED discs, I am  hurting the industry.????? AND, I should play these NO LONGER PRODUCED discs  until they wear out; knowing they can't be replaced; but by doing this, it will somehow help the industry out financially.

As a fire chief, if I took the advice that I hear from many is that I should let all the buildings that are on fire burn, and go into the homes that aren't; chopping holes and  spraying water because they MIGHT have a fire.

OH, it all makes sense to me know.

Kelly

Just like Fire Marshall Bill on "In Living Color"   .

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

IF THIS IS THE CASE, i WOULD Still HAVE TO GO AFTER SOUNDCHOICE.

Sound choice is selling a digital system also. only you buy the songs from them, so they make the money media shifting them,  Then they claim they are legal.
But then they make the system Proprietary, so you Have to buy from them


Sound Choice and Stellar, are the only two making this absurd claim. (that digital shifting is illegal) The only thing I can see they are trying to do is get us to buy from them twice, (if you already own a set:).  They want to be the only source of Karaoke. I'm surprised they dont try to get us to pay them per song played.

They want to become a  Monopoly..... I think The Ricco act should covers this,

The problem is they think they own KARAOKE and can dictate laws for us that haven't even been defined.  I can see them getting prosecuted on day for trying to extort  People (sheeple) who just take them at their word. I for one don't.

Sorry Im so pizzed at this subject, im not making a very concise post.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Has anyone using 1:1 been injured by this?  I can't wait for the Twin-Cities to get targeted!  

I've always planned to go digital and will (just laziness and cash flow keep slowin' me up).  If computer-run shows are shut down I've always got my old players, and so do you; don't you?

Does anyone know of a host/show that started as computer but also had its own discs?  I know of one, but he does have an outboard player and if he didn't so what?!  $150 to $300 for hardware to insure all the cheaters (those who didn't purchase music) and most of your competition is eliminated?, yeah baby.

Those who buy mp3s online can easily keep receipts, one spreadsheet or notebook is all you need.  Hassle?, sheez, you already keep your receipts for taxes...

Any updates on this story?...

I suppose anything with the courts will drag on and on and on...  the thought of her giving up evidence on others, oh it's like Christmas baby!  I would go any courtdates to watch if possible (I live in the west metro, her "home" is closer than all of my shows).

It's also funny how someone that signed up to this site in Mar 2004 JUST now starts posting and all 12 posts are on this topic only.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Yes it is TTowntenor.   Considering such a passionate person has restrained themselves from posting during the following content


There's something very familiar about the arguing style as well.   Suddenly how many newbies with 0 post counts (prior to yesterday) are jumping in to this ONE thread as well ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

MY LAST POST-   HONESTLY !  


Differences in opinions aside,  I commend Revenge Entertainment for holding her part of a discussion while also having her site and schedule posted.  I personally think that is respectable.  My intent was NEVER to diminish honesty, and those who uphold all legal aspects.  HOWEVER,  I refuse to be made to feel like a criminal for not running out and purchasing ALL new format DVD's when I can copy my legitimately purchased VHS tape to DVD, and tape programs.  I don't have enough disposable income to spend large sums of money on media I already purchased legitimately each and every time technology creates a new format. I won't kick myself for enjoying "illegally format shifted entertainment forms either". There're too many more important things to worry about.  Granted,  It's "Good Economy" to do-so.  I'll never say all I do is legal, nor will I say I'm proud to cut corners.  Solely based upon an argument of principle, given a good arguing style, it's always easier for a person who does everything "by the books" to come out ahead.  HOWEVER,  I also know plenty of excellent entertainers that just don't have the money to purchase "high end" "cutting edge", "ongoing media shifted material", etc.   My own feelings are it's great that such people aren't ousted from the entertainment areas merely do to the fact that MOST small business people have it tough in todays economy.  Bars are shutting down, times are tough, and I agree with what Karyoker said in a different thread.  "Stop worrying about all nuances of legality and go out and get work".  This doesn't mean it's OK to break laws,  It means in life there are priorities !   There IS grey, and there are trite areas too.

My thought is when looking at things objectively despite whether a KJ pays huge sums of money instead of backing up their investment using blank CD-G's,  Karaoke as a main form of entertainment in bars (that are having a tough time to begin with) is "timed", it's likely subject to "trend" and "fad" aspects, fewer bars are, and can't pay out, hence fewer WILL pay top dollar for Karaoke. There's little security in a KJ's area of work now in most smaller bar locations.  KJ's will likely have to be good DJ's to keep working. Which means the Karaoke Manus will also need to find alternate ways of getting income soon REGARDLESS of any of this current diatribe.  For a small person such as myself to be expected to spend sums of money that can put kids thru school on a type of hobby and small-time work that pays most a very small sum today and to pay this money (just to back up a library in cases of theft when working in an entertainment area that is dwindling) is NOT likely a good investment. Job security isn't there, and all money spent on this media type will soon be lost.  To argue why a small person who's struggling to get and keep work MUST ALWAYS pay at least twice as much on a Library in order to protect themselves from consequences of theft seems quite frivolous to me (a person who knows the meaning of the tax-payers dollar), who knows the cost of getting to a job having to pay todays gas prices alone,  the cost of dental work, etc.

While I believe that "Keep it Legal" is commendable, ALL at this point is personal argument, since people are now being put in a position where they must defend their actions, meaning justify why their "level of grey" is fine.  This will go around in circles, and the fact is, degree of wrong and right aren't clearly defined in current law regarding this specific area. All reading of analysis of Fair Use Defense indicates this ambiguity is intentional and it's up to the courts to decide outcome, not internet posters that have little experience with law.  

It's always easy to find a blemish on a person and poke fun of it if you look hard enough. Where one person is saying to many others  "I am better than you because I'm totally honest".   The response to that always will end up "Well good for you miss goody two-shoes", now leave me alone.  

On the internet it's always easy to appear perfect, and castigate those that aren't.  Especially in a room where those castigated have thousands of posts, and the finger pointer has no history to dissect.  in real-life few are 100% legal


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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

As if this should even matter, I signed up in 2004 because there was something I wanted to look up on the site and I couldn't without becoming a member. I didn't post then because that wasn't what I was on the site for. I posted first on THIS subject for two reasons:
1. I AM very passionate about this. I don't do karaoke as a hobby. I do it as a business. I choose to ONLY do this. I don't have another job I can fall back on if I lose shows to illegal KJs or have to charge less because of them and
2. After the Minnesota bust, I used a search engine to see what all was happening with the bust and THIS forum was there.  Also, Knightshow's retirement page was there. You will all note that my FIRST post contained the letters he posted on his retirement page.

I am sorry I didn't see the RULE that said I HAVE to post if I sign up on this site. Hmmm..let me catch up:
What do I wear to shows? Clothes.
Drunks and equipment? My favorite incident was the kid at Punk Rock Karaoke that smashed (and completely flattened) the microphone screen on his forehead like a beer can.
As for whether I sing guy songs, yes. I sing Shameless and several other male songs. When I have a cold or sore throat, I prefer male hits because they don't strain my voice and I don't have to take time off.
I bought some of the $5 SC discs. Thanks to those of you who let us know about the web site.
How many songs? Well...we have the second largest selection in our area (the FIRST largest legal selection) and at EVERY show, there are STILL songs we don't have. Some we cannot get, some were never made. So, in answer to how many songs do you really need? More than there are on karaoke is my answer.
First time? I was drunk, it was on a machine where you had to read it off a piece of paper and I was shaking so bad the paper was rattling on the mic. I got through it and swore I'd never do it again. Guess I was wrong.
Hmmmm...maybe that's the reason I never posted before. Those things don't really interest me enough to post about. I read them. I am amused by some of your answers, but, as my answers are neither interesting nor funny, I didn't post. Also, I didn't know I HAD to, but obviously, I do. So there. I have made posts pertaining to several of the forums. OH...and I DID post to another forum. I told someone where they could find an Elvis disc they were looking for. AND...the "newbies" who just joined in this discussion just saw how you treat new posters, so why on Earth would ANYONE try to post here if they WEREN'T passionate about a subject.

Now, as for the "newbie" posts. Whereas I appreciate that they seem to be on the legal side in this, I do not know them, they are not me and, believe me, you will never see me calling for reinforcements. I fight my own battles. Illegal KJs ANNOY me, but you DON'T scare me. And to the "newbies," welcome. Sorry you got here at a bad time.

I am wondering why, however, if you all are so sure you are right, you still continue to fight. You act like you DON'T have the originals somewhere if you need them. I would only be angry at SC and Stellar if I COULDN'T prove I was using a 1:1 copy. I wouldn't worry about it at all if I COULD prove it. But you guys are fighting like your livelihoods depend on SC and Stellar NOT coming to see YOU.

Kellyoke: NO. I do not think the 1:1 computer KJs should be the ONLY ones getting busted. If you read my previous posts, I think anyone doing this illegally should be busted. I ESPECIALLY think multi riggers and people like the woman in Minnesota should be busted. I mentioned several places that I did not think that SC and Stellar would even bother with the 1:1 once they prove they have the originals.

TTowntenor: I already explained it to you. If you cannot read or choose to ignore the part pertaining to you, I can't help you. Figure it out for yourself. Better yet, call the manufacturers and ask them to drop by your house and explain it to you.