Karaoke Forums

Fact is,  young competitive testosterone charged kids always needed somebody to "dis",  before young musicians had karaoke to dis, in the old days we musicians were dis'ing drummers <rimshot>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I’m trying to remember just how the joke goes…

“What are those people called that follow the band around wherever they go?”


























“Drummers.”    

..


There are lists of these.  I forgot so many of them.  We'd alternate between the drummer and bass player jokes.  Of course it was all fun and games with the exception of those times I was playing bass  

Here are a few cute ones,  many of which I actually haven't yet heard !

http://www.angelfire.com/mac/keepitlive ... /jokes.htm

I especially like this one !

A man walks into a shop and says to the shop assistant: "excuse me, I'd like to buy a guitar pick, and some strings."

The shop assistant looks uncomprehendingly at his customer, and says "pardon?"

"I'd like a guitar pick please, and some strings."

The shop assistant thinks on this for a while, and then turns to his customer and says "you're a drummer aren't you?"

"Yeah! How did you know man?"

"This is a fish and chip shop."

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Q: Why do guitarists put drumsticks on the dash of their car?

A: So they can park in the handicapped spot.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

This guy goes on vacation to a tropical island. As soon as he gets off the plane, he hears drums. He thinks "Wow, this is cool." He goes to the beach, he hears the drums, he eats lunch, he hears drums, he goes to a luau, he hears drums. He tries to go to sleep, yet he hears drums.

This goes on for several nights, and gets to the point where the guy can't sleep at night because of the drums. Finally, he goes down to the front desk.

When he gets there, he asks the manager, "Hey! What's with these drums. Don't they ever stop? I can't get any sleep."

The manager says, "No! Drums must never stop. It's very bad if drums stop."

"Why?"

"When drums stop...bass solo begins."

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I don't necessarily understand Simon Cowell, especially after this season.  On more than one occasion he stresses how he's looking for originality.  On the other hand, he's often troubled by it when it occurs.

IMHO, when he uses the term "karoake performance", I think he is referring to the total lack of originality such a performance offers.  Consider this.  If a karaoke show/singer is doing "Sweet Caroline", there is only one way we expect to hear/experience that song.  If the singer doesn't sound like Neil Diamond, oh well.  If the track does not sound exactly like the original, many will say that the track is inferior.  

Back in the 50's, there was "black" radio and "white" radio.  Black groups were never heard on the latter and I doubt that white groups were heard on the former.  When I black group had a doo-wop or R&B hit, their record company would often have a white group cover it so it could be played on "white" radio.  Many times, the "white" version was not as "doo-wop" or R&B as the original.  

One of the most well-known doo-wop songs of all time is Earth Angel, by the Penguins (a black group).   I have and perform what is probably the only karaoke version of that song done by the Crewcuts (a white group).  It is quite different.  What do you think the audience reaction is when they hear it?

People sing karaoke for different reasons; people enjoy listening for different reasons.  I like live bands that make the music their own.  I like singers that make the music their own, and supposedly Simon does, too!  Karaoke recordings rarely offer that opportunity.

True,  but this does not mean it can't be done other ways by a creative person. Ways that (for all we know) will be innovative, and tasteful.  Renditions need not be original, even if the backing is original.  There's a margin of play the lead vocalist has, a person can dub over themselves layering harmony, Restyling, etc.  Possibilities are vast within such a margin, many ways to style a composition, Very few backing tracks force the vocalist to nail the cover.

Total lack of originality has it's purpose in music-  Takes talent to nail a cover, however MANY karaoke songs are done extremely creatively and differently too. It's not an easy thing to do, but quite a few in here have "made a song their own" over in SS.  Some backings, and genres allow for more of a margin to do this than other backing versions and genres do naturally.



I am personally a cover musician,  I'm not creative, I don't pretend to be HOWEVER I'd have to disagree with your assertion here.  Reason being,  More than not, backing does not hinder vocal-style creativity,  could *I* do this tastefully ?  Nope.
Others however have, and can given MOST backing tracks !  occassionally we hear a style/backing that doesn't allow for as much deviation from the original.

I hear a Neil Diamond song in my head exactly as Diamond himself did it.  Usually songs we hear in our head play out as originally done.  Of course this is UNTIL a creative person (that hears something different) comes along and restructures the composition in a way we have yet to imagine !   Has happened for years,  and will continue to happen.  Backing doesn't limit this in most cases as much as one would think.  Of course backing can also be restructured, the tempo changed, etc.  Many possibilities and it'd still be "Karaoke".

ADDED IN:

Simon likely does throw the phrase "sounds like Karaoke" around generically as a means of saying "unoriginal",  producers are in fact looking for "something different",  but this is not to say that something different can't be found within the realm of karaoke.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve,

As a generality I must disagree.  However, the SGB jazz series does provide a lot of room for improvisation.  But even if you're more correct than I, 99.9% of what I have observed on the part of karaoke singers and audiences is the desire for a performance to "cover" the orginal as closely as possible in all apects of the word.   Once member of this forum complained because some karaoke versions fade out too soon.  I often complain because they don't fade out soon enough!

As an aside, IMHO, I wish every KJ would just end the "Dance" as soon as possible after the lyrics end.  It's great to dance to the outro but who wants to sit and listen to it (or stand on "stage" till it ends)?

And as I have posted elsewhere in the past, lots of folks think they can sing like Frank Sinatra.  If they really can, Frank Sinatra would never have become the icon he did.  It's only because few can actually replicate what he did that he is considered great.  While I have a good voice, styling and improv abilities, I have only sung a Frank Sinatra song twice.  We all are familiar with those who sing nothing but Frank Sinatra songs!  Why do they do it, over and over?

Agreed Eric, however there's a reason for this.  

Music, styles, just about ALL things in aesthetics (most areas of the arts) are learned/conditioned/acquired tastes.  Much grows on us,  we learn to like certain things, contingent on associations during times we heard a song, experiences, but I couldn't initially stand much of what I now have somehow evolved to like.

For this reason,  people DO want to hear songs they like, as they know them (that's what they like).   Since MOST are not creative enough to hear a variance in their head that would modify the original into something more tasteful,  *and thank god for this reason most don't try this*,  originals are left alone.  Also out've respect to the original artist who most believe "Did the song as good as it can be done",  Naturally that too is subjective, it's not factual, but we can accept that we hear something that appeals to us on the radio and we either like it, can take it or leave it, dislike it, but in time who knows how we'll feel about it.

Point being,  I hear a song I like that's original,  I leave it be (in my head),  I like it, and that's good enough.  I'm not a composer,  So I put a heavier emphasis in terms of my aesthetic tastes on what already exists.

The creative person often won't perceive things this same way.  An innovator CAN'T.

Most adapt to that which they are familiar with,  the true innovators, and creators hear something we have not yet heard, and likely won't like right off the bat.



Not entirely true Eric,  It's because HE DID IT first, it's HIM and HIS style.  He got it promoted, played, and all else would be copycat attempts.  If others sound exactly like him,  they aren't as good,  they are just great copycats  LOL ..  He's carved the signature style..

It's the firsts, and those that create and innovate that carry, and change the music world.   While there might still be close to an infinite possibility of what WILL come and become popular in the music world,  to me the possibilities are BEHIND us,  I'm just not creative enough to think up something that's more tasteful.

There will in time be MANY more as popular as Frank, Elvis...  They just haven't crawled out've the woodwork to innovate yet, and lay their foundation on the music world, or maybe they have...  We just don't know it yet !  In 1968 I would've bet money Jimmy Hendrix wasn't going to be known 5 years down the road.  He was a noisy, loud, and crude guy attempting to play the guitar.  His sound was atonal, screeched, and screamed, but certainly wasn't "guitar playing"....  

Good thing I'm not a betting person !!!  Right ?

Now add to that my opinion when Green Day first came out,  Nirvana, Korn, etc..  If you were to ask me,  will FM radio be playing any of their stuff in 15 years,  I'd have bet NO...  

I'd be all out broke though !

What the mainstream listener likes, is beyond most of us..  It will always be this way.  Todays innovator, will be tomorrows cliche boring sound.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I must be one of those “creative” people; either that, or I just can’t sing it the same, ’cause I add my own style to most-everything I sing, including Neil Diamond (whose songs I love to sing, by the way).

I sing “well”, but I don’t necessarily have a “good voice”.  It’s thin, and maybe I try to compensate by adding some style, a lot of feeling and dynamics to the lyrics.  Whatever it is, I do get enough compliments that it must be okay.

I got told I sound like Aaron Neville a couple times.  I don’t really hear it (unless maybe I sing one of his songs), but a week ago my buddy and I invited another guy and his wife who I met a couple times, a band mate of his years ago, and she made the same comment out of the blue, so I guess there is something to it.  

I’ll sing a song like “Love Hurts” by Nazareth, and it takes on a completely different style, but it does work.  

One song I do love to sing, that when complimented, I was told I sounded just like the record was Keith Urban’s “You’ll Think Of Me”.

A lot of songs though, simply because I remember pretty-close, but not all the intricacies, I make up what I don’t remember, which also makes it more my own creation.  

Well, I didn’t meant to talk so much about ME… I was intending to agree with Mr. Kaplan that there is LOTS of room for improvisation with the backtracks.  

It’s just that most people try, or think it’s necessary to sound like the original, and the closer they do, the more successful they feel.  I’d really like to hear more folks freeing themselves from this, and allowing their own style to shine through.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

I just reread this paragraph I posted, and for some reason started getting thoughts in my head of Jody Foster's line in "Silence of the Lambs".


"We covet what we see everyday"  :shock:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Speaking from the viewpoint that Karaoke can co-exist with live bands, let me say this. At the bar I had been DJ/KJ'ing at (I still pop in and help out with updateding discs and books) we have both a band and Karaoke simultaneously on Thursday nights. We are unique in that we have both upstairs and downstairs clubs(band downstairs--karaoke upstairs). They are the "house" band. Additionally we have other bands on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday nights. Karaoke 7 nights. So we have both going on at once.

As to resentment by old-line musicians--of course its there. How many times have I heard "Karaoke almost put me out of business", or watch the roll of the eyes, or listen to the sneers. Yep many of them hate it. With a passion and vehemence.

As to Karaoke as a training ground: ABSOLUETLY!! Here in Portland we have a number of prominent lead singers/front persons who have joined bands and or formed thier own bands. All of them either just were karaoke singers or KJ'd before joining a band. Some went the route of participating at JAM SESSIONS while others went directly to forming thier own bands.  Most all of them have performed for the big crowds(15000) at our Waterfront Blues Festival. Many of them still pop in and sing a Karaoke song or two.  So they havent forgoten thier Karaoke roots.

In my own case I have managed to join a blues band and have now done 2 live gigs with 30-40 person crowds at a  coffee house that also has beer and wine. I saw no one getting up to leave--so we(and I) must have been OK. The band actually auditioned me at my Karaoke gig(sang 5 different types of jazz and blues songs for them). I'd been singing Karaoke for about 9 years and KJ'ing for about 5 yrs off and on. I will never quit going to sing at Karaoke--its too much fun and thiers too many drunk cuties to perform for!

As to my own training--I would never have learned to sing in front of a crowd without
Karaoke. I would never have been able to explore blues singing without it. I would never have gotten over stage fright or learned to do public speaking/hosting/talking to a crowd without it. I would never have learned to sing the WIDE variety of styles that I am able to without it. I also would never have developed the stage personna of the "Swingcat" without it. Without Karaoke I would never have had the opportunity to DJ/KJ/Host or join a real live blues band, learn to sing, learn to host, or make the contacts that have allowed me to write for 4 entertainment magazines, become a blues writer/photographer, official photographer for a blues label in LA, or have the opportunity to photograph and write about entertainment people such as Steely Dan, Steve Miller, Pinetop Perkins and actually meet people such as Stanley Berens of Canned Heat, Rod Piazza, Charlie Musslewhite,Maestro Carlos Kalmar (Director/Conductor of the Oregon Symphony) or Govenor Ted Kuglongowski(Oregon). I would not have had the opportunity for my photogrpahy to appear in such publications as The Blues Festival Guide, Blues Revue Magazine, Living Blues, and Big City Blues.  

All of this because of Karaoke.

None of these things would ever have come about if I hadnt dicovered Karaoke and become immersed in it. And for that I am greatful.

As to its detractors--all I can say is if you dont like it then stay away. But you know what I've found is that some of those same detractors actually go out and do Karaoke! But live music has its place and will never go away. If your band is GOOD ENOUGH to have a FOLLOWING then it will always have a place to play. If not then there wont be gigs. Same for any Karaoke show.  Bars are bars and they all have the same bottom line--do you  bring a crowd or not.  Karaoke is not going away and will be in many places that bands cannot play.  There are other places where Karaoke cannot go--but those will always have live band entertainment.
So each has its own place. That will never change. But heres a hint---Karaoke pays better. Many times bands play for little or no money--they do it for the love of the music. Without bands we wouldnt have Karaoke music to sing.
So each has a role in the entertainment/music equation. And that's MOST EXCELLENT for the person looking for a way to escape the drudgery of going to the job everyday for an evening out.  Such VARIETY!  

Well thats all I have for now. Hope I havent bored anyone!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Yes, Kurt, you offended me to no end:)

Just kidding....

You know, as I said earlier, MOST bands take offence at karaoke, but Taska and the Outlaws (who are now, by the way, Cactus and the Outlaws...FYI)..... used to go to karaoke once in a while at Beavercreek. They said that's how they learn alot of their new songs. Kinda cool that they had that attidtude, as popular as they are in this area, they didn't think themselves "above it".

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Blues backings are great, because for the most part the genre of music REALLY leaves quite a bit of leeway for creativity on the part of the vocalist !  I also get to trade licks with Gary Moore without having to hear him tell me I suck !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Taska was very positive about Karaoke--she was constantly out auditioning and RECRUITING people to come to the jam sessions and try singing with the band. at Karaoke places.  She did that with me---but unforntunaely I wasnt able to connect with her--although I did go to a coulple of the jam sessions at Beaches to see what it was all about and check out her song selections. But as to her going to Karaoke--Im just wondering if that was a way for her to drum up more people to come to Outlaws shows to provide a 'Following'. But thats cool and its a very clever tactic.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Might have been a tactic, I dunno. I think Beavercreek was the only place they really ever went to karaoke. I never got the chance to join them at karaoke, just the band jam nights. She does have a karaoke system & cd's at home though.... that was the act for her all girl "Sassy" band:)

You know what 's wierd? She is not ding a band at all now, just Cactus and them.... Taska went back to being a hair dresser.  :no:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Go figure!

Wouldnt be too surpised to see her back up here reforming her band in the near future!

Oh I forgot to include on my big long post---that without Karaoke I'd NEVER of had the opportunity to see CHARMIN dressed up like POCAHONTAS singing ALL JACKED UP on my big OLD-SCHOOL silver mic while I was KJ'ing! Or interview her for a KS magazine article or for a NW KARAOKE Guide article or get to hear all her subs on SS! Or get to interview ODIE or do KS feature stories on LONMAN or Knightshow either. Or get to know Flipper(who came to my blues band gig last Friday night by the way).  All because I tried out Karaoke one night and got HOOKED!! And the rest they say "IS HISTORY"!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

This is the second time in this post you mentioned Beavercreek.........what's in a name? you say......I hope this name was derived for it's reputation......and I want to go there.....well at least part of me wants to go there..... .....remember Charmin?..... .......I was listener y for awhile.....

billy what part? your nose?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Yes, we are called "The Beaver State".... and how do you think Oregon GOT that name?  :whistle: You've heard the talk of "western girls", right?

Okay, I'll stop before I get my foolheaded self in trouble. (you started it tho)

YOU were "Listener Y"? Now why does that name sound familiar?  :D  And why do people change their names on here, or assume 2 identities?  :no: Well, I'm guilty too..... I've had about 4 names:) Oh yeah, and I also have a second identity....... but nobody would ever guess it, haha.

*going to stalk Listener Y's posts* .....

Oh, before I forget..... what part of you?

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Kurt....... !!!

The Pocahontas outfit was donated to Goodwill, along with other stuff..... a long time ago. So, no more Indian visions of Charm, okay?  LMAO

(that WAS a fun night though, wasn't it?)  My whole gang had a really cool time up there at your gig:)

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥