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And the fact that some 'karaoke only' singers are better than some of the band lead singer.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

VERY good point Jian. I've heard some bands that were pretty tight musically but had sucky lead singers. And I've heard karaoke people that would be awesome in a band:)

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I happened to have the TV on the other day and American Idol was on... one of the contestant had just finished a song and the first judge commented that they sounded like a karaoke singer!

Well, I've actually heard some singers at karaoke that would put ALL of the previous AI winners to shame... makes me wonder why they discriminate against a person because of their age!

But some karaoke singers get lost and confused if they have to sing the same song but to a different karaoke backing or if they sing with a live band.  They count so heavily on hearing certain musical cues or seeing the words scroll in just the right way that they're used to.  I once played in a band that backed an Elvis impersonator.  This Elvis had previously only used backup karaoke tapes.  He was great with his tapes but when he started singing with the live band, he would constantly lose his place in the song even though we were doing the same standard arrangements of the songs. It was pretty weird.  That's the last time I'll try something like that!!  

I'm an old band guy.  Back then, karaoke didn't exist.  I see many band people coming for it now for karaoke and think it's great.  It might have helped me with the vocals way back when!

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

A very valid point Don. Most karaoke singers are notoriously too dependent on the lyric monitor. But the good one who can memorised the lyric will have no problem singing in a band.
I was in a bar a few week back where they have karaoke and live band playing. the karaoke start at 5.00pm and the band will play the first set at 9.30pm. This is a very good cover band playing mostly classic rock. The singers (they are 2 of them) are very good but there are better singers in the house during karaoke time. The band take a break after one hr of play and one rotation of karaoke start again. They play 3 sets and in the last set it become an open mic event. A very good combination of karaoke and live band.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

That's actually a very cool idea Jian!! A year or so ago, Charmin, myself and our local KJ tried doing a live music open mic at our Denny's on Thursdays.  Well it didn't quite take off in terms of filling a whole night!  LOL  But, I thought maybe there would be enough live music around to have a night of part karaoke and part live music in alternating sets -- a little of both "worlds" in one evening.  It never was attempted here, but it sounds like it worked over in your area!

That is quite true.  But it is not only karaoke singers that it applies to.
There are some karaoke backings out there which are totally different in timing to others, same song, different timing/arrangements and for someone to get up and be confronted with something quite different than they were expecting can be quite unsettling.  To my knowledge, most bands practice their set list before performing live, a luxury the karaoke singer does not always have.... I have a recording of Elvis performing "Such A Night" in a studio where he restarts the band three times because he was getting the timing wrong!  

The first time I ever sang with a band, it went without a hitch, without practice.  They played very close to the same arrangement I was used to.  Another time, different song, different band and they played an arrangement I was not used to and I made a few errors.  One of the band members made a comment afterwards which is relevant.... karaoke singers are led by the music, whereas a band is usually led by the singer.

Well, a good band will follow a singer if he/she deviates from what they're expecting.  You make a good point Murrlyn! Singers and band members alike are accustomed to having established arrangements to a song.  A good singer or musician should know the song well enough and be spontaneous enough to compensate for any unexpected changes in arrangement or timing.

No need to be sorry, I'm honored to be in agreement with such a talented, and lovely individual.........  :handshake:

OMG… that site is HILARIOUS!!  Yes, it would be funny to get that shirt!  LOL

This one was funny after having read your post about how your show took over the band’s gig.  

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“Karaoke is bad for the economy. How? One simple Karaoke machine can put 4 to 6 musicians out of work at once... in ONE night! Consider how many places support and run Karaoke around the country. With so many clubs supporting Karaoke instead of live bands, the musician has no way to support himself through his art.. With no way to make money, the musicians stop buying gear. This slows down business in the music stores which in turn slows down production for the manufacturers and so on. You wouldn't think something so simple could have such a major impact, but it does!”
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  And a couple points about the “economy” BS above…

I don’t go out to support the economy… I go to have a good time.  

When I go out and spend my money, I AM supporting the economy… maybe not the “bar-band’s” economy, but I really don’t owe my money to anyone I don’t choose to give it to.  

And if the karaoke brings in more patrons who in-turn spend more money out, then they’re helping the economy more than the band would be.  

Besides, I think most musicians (as I’m practicing to be now) learn their instrument for personal enjoyment and expression.  

If they do it strictly to make a living in a bar band, play “Rock & Roll Superstar” or to impress the chicks… that’s their own stupidity.  
 


Edit:  and then the part about the musicians theoretically not spending money on gear,

well that’s only the PA they’d not need, and a KJ probably spends more money in gear/discs/etc, than a bar band ever would.

THe musician then plays his craft on the street with the guitar case opened up in front of them & working for the amount of change that accumulate4s through the day which is more than likely (ESPECIALLY if they play original music) MORE than what they would make in a bar.  Coming from an original band myself (yes did the cover thing as well), original gigs DO NOT PAY ANYTHING!  You'll be lucky if you make enough to cover the bands bar tab.  Now he makes more money & goes & purchases that 8 track multi track recorder & produces his own self made ep & sells it along side of his playing, independantly selling thousands of copies, record companies start getting word & track him down because they want a piece of the action, he now has a signed contract.     Eh, you never know   Or they just get hired by karaoke companies to produce karaoke tracks!  :whistle:
While karaoke is supporting OTHER manufacturers, disc makers, PA gear (which brings back the lack of business in the music store that the musician can no longer afford) - which many bands don't have much PA gear & the reason being, if they original, they use the house gear, if they are cover & good enough, then they may splurge & get kick (@$%&#!) gear, otherwise, i've seen several karaoke rigs that would blow many band rigs off the stage.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Why wait for a karaoke company to hire them?  Better to just start producing their own better quality karaoke tracks and go into competition with those responsible for their demise in the first place!  Any backing tracks made with real instruments have to be far better than Midi tracks, surely!

Yup, musicians definitely have a problem with karaoke, and I believe it is THEY that have spread the stigma, or snobbery about it.

                          Why?  They lose work because of it, and it's not just because hiring a single host is cheaper than paying a whole band.  In the ols days, no one would DREAM of having a DJ at a decent wedding. It was ALWAYS a band. DJs were for "budget" weddings.   What happened was that the combination of top sound systems and a song selection of THOUSANDS as opposed to the meager fare ( by comparison) not only made them the "in" entertainment, but consequently raised the DJs fees to band level.  A karaoke ( def: empty orchestra, i.e. recorded tracks-good a word as any...) show mixes the same amount of song selection with LIVE performances by more than just one lead singer, or whatever few sing in the band.

                         A MAJOR thread to the bar band industry in combination with MUCH lower overhead. The only thing they can do to fight back is to create that "snob" appeal for themselves.


    My opinion only.....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

AI to me is somewhat of a joke.  I'm sure there are TONS of great singers that never make the cut.  Those who have aren't always all that great.  Geez, look at how Sangina survived this year.  He sucks.  Last year's winner-- ho hum.  Ruben who?  Clay is more popular and frankly not all that great.  It seem that only the blone-country singer (Can't remember her name but she has awards) and Kelly Clarkson have done well.  But I digress...

Sometimes I like to hear a live band-- but when I do hear them, I'm itching to sing.  Sometimes Karaoke can be a bore especially when the singers suck (not that I'm the bomb or anything - but at least I sing stuff nobdody does and people at the regular place I go to seem to like it-- and remember me).

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For those about to rock, we salute you!!!

Boy that's a fact.  A good friend of mine does nothing but weddings - mainly dj, but has a good karaoke shows as well.  They charge a MINMUM $1500 per show & only work Friday, Saturday & SUnday - often times TWO shows on Sat & Sun & are booked literally every weekend this year.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Not all we musicians look down at Karaoke at all.   Personally I have always felt as a multiinstrumentalist (who has benefitted from the help of backing tapes and tracks) that Karaoke is a GREAT session training tool.   In conservatories or music departments it's not easy for a soloist in a classical genre to have backing accompaniment.  With Karaoke a vocalist or soloist CAN have backing, and good backing at that !   They can practice without having to resort to a cappella.

Let's not stereotype musicians as "looking down at Karaoke".  Look at maturity level, ego and age of people that might be denigrading Karaoke.  As a retired touring musician I think Karaoke *IS* a fabulous addition to the music world, if for no other reason than IT GET'S MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD NEVER OTHERWISE SING INTO MUSIC AND SINGING !   It spreads the love and fun of music..  If I didn't think Karaoke were a positive thing, I'd not be here.   Some musicians aren't afraid to think for themselves.. Sure,  You having Guitarists that mock drummers and bassists,  You have Fender and Gibson players that mock cheaper import lines, but the fact is..  Most of these kids grow up, and think for themselves in time.

Granted,  My gigs were replaced by DJ's years ago, but I was never angry, or jealous.   Times change,  Nobody's fault, the fact that a business owner can now pay less for entertainment doesn't lesten *ME* as a musician. People get laid-off from work and are deemed "over qualified", the employer then goes and hires a college grad for 1/3 the salary of the fired worker, it's just life, sure it sucks, but it doesn't mean the person replacing me can't fulfill the needs of the employer, it means my time was up..That aside,  Karaoke is a great training tool as is Guitaroke, etc..   I look at all this as session training material, and backing that in time will improve the quality of singing, larger number of singers, better quality singing..  Additionally, it maintains ballad styles,  another good thing !  Keeps them alive..  Quite importantly is it's often an interactive type activity, it's not an isolated arcade game where a kid shuts himself off and plays some "point and shoot game", we need more stuff like this in the world,  positive social activities in the arts that bond people, as opposed to isolated shut-ins getting into negative stuff in our sick world today..  OK, where were we  LOL   Oh yeah-  Karaoke !

You aren't going to find mature musicians who think this thru mocking something like Karaoke, main reason being that unless a person is a total fool they will clearly see that Karaoke enables many to sing who wouldn't otherwise have a chance or interest, and WHY wouldn't a musician want to see more individuals participating in, and enjoying music ?   Especially youngsters ?    It certainly has its place, it serves a fun purpose, and even older married musicians or musicians that end up involved in other commitments, life-styles, professions and don't have the luxury of freedom that affords them the Highschool band practices at friends,  those that no longer have the time for the biweekly "band practices" , well they can STILL sing in the comfort of their own home with accompaniment.

There are different facets of artform, different levels and different ways of participating,  but it's a fabulous practice tool, and it's fun, gets more people into music...

Keep in mind the maturity level, and reasons CERTAIN rock musicians might say "Karaoke isn't legit".  Also keep in mind that until the 60's many didn't consider blues something a "white man" should be playing, Jazz was considered a "swamp" area  of music, and rock was loud not-legit noise...

Times change whether some of the "stick-in-the-muds" like it or not.

Additionally, a very good Karaoke singer *IS* a very good musician !   Whether band-singers wish to admit this or not !  Even prior, "one man band" acts were playing all their own accompaniment and performing (using their own backing) with the Fostex and Tascam 4 track analog recording devices.  In the 60's "Mitch Miller" or "Sing along with Mitch" was quite popular in black and white TV days.  That was quite similar to Karaoke.  It's been a long time coming however it poses no real threat to live bands down the road, musicians that really love playing their instrument will always seek out other individuals to join them, it's a different type of musical interaction, but even for the skeptics who might say "Karaoke is to music, what paint by numbers is to art", still... Paint by numbers is still art for those of us that suck and need the numbers, and arguably those that only read Schirmer classical pieces and play the piano are comparably "paint by numbers" type of musicians when compared to those of us that read but also play contemporary styles by-ear...  Of course Suzuki was frowned upon when it came to the US too, Classical musicians didn't want it here, but I always felt that learning to rely on ones hearing is NOT cheating in the musical realm.. It only adds more dimension.

So while many will always take the conservative perspective, and bash all that's new entering their territory,  some of us realize that shortly down the road, the "turntable" will be a competitive seat in the percussion section of the Boston Pops .

Btw,  I was the type musician MOST affected by the advent of Karaoke. The first to get cut,  I was solely a "backing" musician.  Whether it was bar-room piano, or guitar backing the front singer, I was an accompanist only, spent my liife behind the frontman.  Still,  I can appreciate what replaced me, and don't feel threatened as a musician.  This won't kill my love for playing live format whether I can make money or not doing it.  I also can't blame bar owners for not wishing to pay out for 7 piece funk hornbands when revenue is down.


JMO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hey  Billy,  looks like some more of my southern "rebel' blood came out  LMAO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well said.  So many good points.  

I’m glad you took the time to write that.

I should go one step further Unhinged, and admit that as a person who wishes *I could sing*, and as a person that uses Karaoke as a means of hopefully (at one point) being able to sing, those that are decent Karaoke singers have a musical ability that I (as a musician) do not have.  So who am I do look down at it ?   A good sounding singer, is a good sounding singer..  It's not up to me to rewrite the definition of "good singer", and determine who is vs who is not, a "musician".

I'm here because there's quite a high level of musical talent in here.  Call it Karaoke, OR call it good singers, it's still rock and roll to me  LMAO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".