Karaoke Forums

really we need to devote all our energy and time debating the police tactics in iraq and get all the smokers out of the bars and all the sex predators off the internet..  dont you know you can sing anything you want to in a bar as long as you aint smoking...and i think there needs to be law where you cant sing and talk on your cell phone at the same time... of course i aint wooried about getting re-elected so i have time to lean back and see things as they actually are and can concentrate fixing on me and not everything between here and mars..this country is hurting right now and i guarantee you its nothing i done...

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actually, there are some cities that are OUTLAWING karaoke! So you CAN'T just go in and sing!  :shock:

Where? Examples.
For what reason are they OUTLAWING karaoke?

Its amazing how long this subject has been going on.  :shock:  but in tracking the comments we have went from the manufactors of Karaoke music attempting to hold on to their piece of the pie by making it difficult on the KJ's, to the point that now entire cities are outlawing Karaoke  :O . By the time this thread ends everyone one of us would have been prosecuted and sentenced to death. They will be a world wide ban on any form of Karaoke without the sole permission of every government official in the world along with the final approval of the "new supreme council" Sound Choice and Stellar.  LMAO Are you sure these were actual cities outlawing karaoke or were you watching footloose.

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro ... lburn.html

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This must be the city mentioned in Footloose.  LOL  Well the fact this city bans Karaoke has little to do with Karaoke itself it doesnt want anything that resembles a bar.

Lilburn, Georgia i'm assuming.  No it has nothing to do with karaoke itself, but it is in fact being banned in their city.  As are any other type of fun in bars such as video games, poker nights, pool tables.  All you are allowed to do is drink!

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Opie & Anthony, a national radio show both broadcast and on satellite are doing the following:


They are holding a Karaoke contest where the singers send in 60 seconds of themselves and their accompaniment. The music is chosen from O&A's song book, downloaded to the singer, who records with it, and is then sent to the show where it will be re-broadcast over satellite and regular radio.

This will tell me if there are any worries for me, because if they don't get busted, no one will. However, if others' get busted and they don't, nothing will hold up in court....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

You're making a very bad assumption.  Radio stations which are governed, pay for the rights to play the music they use.  In fact they pay pretty heavily for that right.  If you call the station, I'll bet you dollars to donuts it's all paid for and legit.

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Well, it's been mighty quiet on all forums since the SC/Stellar fiasco was exposed for what it is  MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.  I hope the sales for those two have dropped in proportion to the aggravation they caused.

I also hope you can now identify those posters on KJ forums who do not have the best interest of KJ's at heart.  Their posts sickened me more than what SC/Stellar actually did!

 Legit for them to broadcast the music, maybe.  Not to send out or download copied music to listeners, have them add their vocals, then upload beck to the show to be rebroadcast with their vocals added to the tracks. I would find that very hard to believe.   You would probably -and I'm only guessing here- need the original artists' consent for each song.....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Licences would surely have to be obtained from the author as well as the producer of the backing track, for each song and singer!

Which brings up another point... does Karaoke Scene pay a licence fee for the streaming of music on Singer's Showcase?

http://www.ipjustice.org/karaokefairuse.shtml

This may be all the information/legal advise you have all been waiting to get...

Did the whole Sound Choice/ Stellar thing go bust?  I sure hope so.

I read the blurb on IPjustice and I think they're "talking through their hats" as my elderly mother would have put it.  I don't know about their legal research but I know they got their ideas about CDG files slightly scrambled.

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Care to elaborate on that statement?

I would much rather take notice of the views of a legal professional with the credentials of Robin Gross than the unsubstantiated comments such as often seen on these forums.    

http://ipjustice.org/wp/about/people/robin-d-gross/

Well, I really do hope the Stellar/Sound Choice nonsence is overwith so I don't have to worry about going to jail over writeing karaoke software.  But if you were talking about the idea that they got their information twisted about the CDG format...

From the blurb at IPJustice
"The CD+Graphics file format consists of the audio samples and the data representing the lyric display interleaved throughout the file. The data is embedded with and inclusive of the audio samples throughout each file. "

Not true silly persons.  The graphics are in the timing byte which has nothing to do with the audio bytes.  The main purpose of the timing byte is to tell the reader how fast the infromation is being read as the leading bit alternates 1-0-1-0-1...
only the first two bits of this byte were used so they stuck the graphics in the last six.  Now I didn't invent CDs and I don't build the hardware, but that's the story I got.  My point being, take it all with a grain of salt.  Just because an "Expert" said it doesn't make it true.

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Okay, who took my pants?

I have to admit that I really don't know anything about the structure of a CDG file or files other than when you play a CDG, you have an audio output and a video output resulting in an audio/visual playback.   Does each song consist of two files on the CDG disk, an audio file and a separate graphics file?  (I do know that there are karaoke songs which consist of an mp3 audio file and a lyrics (graphic) file which are contained in a zip).  Or is a CDG song  just one file, with some bytes consisting of timing and graphics bits, and some bytes consisting of audio bits?

Big question.... Oy!

First, get the idea that there are files on a CD out of your head.  If that were the case a fingerprint would make it unreadable.  Some scary-smart folks came up with with a way to make a CD, using interleaving and 8-14 error correction and RS error correction (twice), to make it appear that there were countiguous files even though there really aren't.

Back in the 80's (I can just see this in my mind) the bosses at Sony/Phillips told their R&D crew that they wanted graphic information on a music CD. Jaws drop. I don't know what the Japanese word for "Where?" is but I'm sure that's what they said.  The disk was all filled up with the housekeeping information that is necessary to actually play the CD and the audio information.

The scarry-smart R&D folks came up with the idea of using the last six bits in the timing byte (one of those house-keeping bytes) which weren't being used.  CD players at the time wouldn't even trasmit the timing byte to the computer becasue it wasn't data that was usable to anything but the CD player itself, and the player was only interested in the first two bits of that byte.  The best analogy I can come up with is "if the CD audio information is a road, the timing byte is a mile marker."  With or without it, the road is the road.  To an audio-only CD player there is no discernable difference between a CD and a CDG.

A CDG (as in MP3+G) file that you rip from a CD contains the information stored in those timing bytes.   If you have the right player, you could use the graphics without the music and any CD player will play the music without the graphics.

The above description is not completely accurate but it's as close as I can come. Corrections welcome.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Here is a pretty good link for a description

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Thanks Karaoker,  that's clear as mud!  Well, I guess for the average layman, it's still gonna be a little above their heads.  But not for us techos, right?



I'm pickin' that, to the average person, that statement is gonna be a darn sight easier to comprehend than either of Exweed's or the 'Red Book' description Karaoker linked to.  Considering the IPJustice advice is concerned with the law as it applies to copying of CDG disks, and not with the technical aspects of how a CD disk is formatted, I think their simplistic description is entirely appropriate and considering the information given in the technical description...
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I think that the IPJustice description is fairly accurate.  After all, it is there merely to illustrate the fact that a CDG contains more than just audio data, so that their later statement can be more easily understood.


For a person who writes software, yet does not know the difference between a bit and a byte, to categorically state that these lawyers are 'talking through their hats" and are "silly persons" to me is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black!

By the way, in case you all didn't realise it, IPJustice's legal research basically says that SC and Stellar's case is totally unfounded!

Murrlyn:  What exactly are you so ticked about?  Where did I confuse bit and byte?  Why is it so important to you that these folks at IPJustice are the untimate authority of everything?

They goofed.  They got the of the CDG format slightly wrong.  They did some research, didn't quite underestand a technical topic quite outside of their field, and committed it to print.  IMHO

The law is less techincal but more subjective.  Is there any more reason to trust their opinion on that?  They got the easy part wrong what makes you they they got the hard part right?

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