Karaoke Forums

Hi all, I am trying to setup a home karaoke system.  I have a laptop which has many Mpeg files in there, these files are all Music Video with Human voice on the one channel and Music on the other channel(how they do it in Asia Karaoke).  Normally, I will just plug the laptop to amplifier (by using Stereo Jack to 2 RCA connectors, like what people use for Ipod to amp), connect Mic to my laptop and just sing.  Of course the quality is not so great, because I will have all voice come from one channel, and all the music from the other channel, even with the home theater amp (6.1), it doesn't really make it better.  I am now thinking about buying a Mixer and keychanger to connect with my Amplifier and use a real microphone.  Now i have several questions, but please bare with me.  By reading through the forum article, I also understand that most of people hear don't like the Word "karaoke mixer/amp" But please hear me out, cuz i have some technical questions i would like to know.  

Amplifer: Yamaha HTR-5650
http://www.yamaha.ca/av/Receivers/HTR_5650.jsp#specs

Speakers: Yamaha NS-AP3400 with Sub YST-SW015
http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/pro ... p3400.html
These come from those Bestbuy Home theater package.

1. By buying a mixer/key changer, will I be able to solve the problem, fusion the two channel together by using a mixer and then send it to my amplifier? or what's the equipment i can buy to make it sound better?  Also, will I be better off buying two more floor speaker so I don't blow up my tiny satelite speakers?  

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/r300/
these speakers sell for $50 dollars each at Fry's Online, will it be good enough and will my amp able to drive these? Or maybe i can just get away with a Bookshelf speaker?  My living room is about 20x15.  My Total budget is around $300 to $500 for the whole setup.

2. There are several Key & Echo Mixer on the market, but how come you can change in 1/4 keys? Is there really a 1/2 key and quarter key? What about half increment? I might not need all the sonic detail on how it's done, but I thought it's always just up/down one step to match the voice of the singer by using a key changer.

For example:
http://www.audio2000s.com/products/mixe ... kj7045.htm

In this one, You can change Music key control in 8 steps up/down but you can do it in 1/4key/step increment? doesn't that mean I can change music key in 32 steps up/down?  

Another example:
http://www.audio2000s.com/products/mixe ... kj7050.htm

This one says 13 steps, +/- 3 tones, what does the +/- 3 tones means?

Yet another example
http://www.audio2000s.com/products/mixe ... kj7615.htm

In this one, you can have Microphone Key control in any step imaginable (±5steps (±10cents, ±20cents, ±2keys,±3 ½ keys, ±1octave), and THEN you can still change Music Key ± 12 Steps(±1/4 Keys/Step), don't you just change the key of music to match your own voice?

3. with the limit amount of budget ($400) and just for home use, what is really the bad thing about buying a Karaoke Mixer/key changer? such as this one

http://www.vocopro.com/p_mxr.html#da5800

I mean what other products out there can get these jobs done (key change/echo, delay, repeat) done in less than $300 dollars? I know there are people on the forum will tell me to get things like "Behringer PMH660M Europower Powered Mixer" but I want to put it at home with my home theater package, these mixer has too many buttons that I don't know will i ever touch or how to adjust, and it doesn't have those simple function like echo, delay, repeat, which I normally encounter in the asian side of karaoke amp.  I do realize there is a huge application different between KJ and home karaoke singing, and I respect all the Pros here know what they are talking about, but is there better/simple way than buying a simple machine like karaoke mixer?  If I want to make it expandable, does it necessary means that I have to buy several machines seperately?  

4. Right now, I am just using my laptop to output the sound, so you guys might just say it's not worth any of these trouble, because the output from laptop stereo is so powerless anyway, none of these equipment will matter.  But how about if i use a desktop and with a sound card that can output with a regular RCA two channel, or even optical.  Will that make all these trouble worthwhile?  Because it's very simple to make a change and do it all on the desktop, I just want to know what's the solution regardless what type of computer i am using.

5. The amp like this one, I know you guys don't like anything with the word "karaoke" on it

http://www.acekaraoke.com/acesonic-am-8 ... rface.html

but wouldn't this pretty much solve all of my problems? or it actually won't? I mean I think these company exist because people can just buy it and solve multiple problems at once, and since I already have a amplifier, so i am just looking for a mixer, but will it be simpler if I just purchase these type of amp and buy two more floor speaker and connect my computer to it and solve all the the problems?

Lastly, I hope I don't come off as a guy trying to prove something, in fact, I ask all these questions because I want to get a more clear grasp of how to solve my problem in a more professional way.  I trust all of you pros on the forum can give me a opinion on these things.  I have been frustrated because I try to call those karaoke equipment store, and all they tell me is to buy this and that, buy the top seller and give it over with.  But I am not satisfy until I exhaust all of my options here and find out all the possible solution to my answer before I make a inform decision. Gladly, upon research, I found out about this forum, and reading through the article, I know everyone here is enthusiastic about helping other people.  I greatly appreciated you guys hear me out, and I trust you guys will be able to shed some light to my much trouble soul.  I also apologize if all these question seems ridiculously troublesome.  Even if some of these questions will not be solved, I am still happy to get more information from you guys.

Thanks ahead.

All key changers I know of operate in half-steps. +-3 tones would mean 6 half-steps up, 6 half-steps down, and one at zero. That makes thirteen steps.

The half-steps are just the difference on the musical scale, i.e. C to C#, D to Eb, etc. It could be in Asia that they operate on quarter-steps, I don't know -- but in all of the U.S. and Europe it is half-steps.

As for your equipment questions, you might look at some past threads for info:

http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9550
http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9512

If you are pc based, you do not need to buy separate key changer. Winamp has Pacemaker that can do a fair job.

I find that when playing multiplex files mono is the way to go. Stereo will make the backing music come only from one side of the speakers.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

actually that last mixer amp you linked from ace karaoke should do the job.  The USB interface sounds pretty interesting... (i've never seen it in action) and at 250watts 8ohms per channel it should have plenty of power for home use.  

But similar to the other thread... and what others have pointed out... I think your vocals will sound much better off appropiate speakers.  Which needs to be made for live vocals.... they don't come cheap.... cheapest ones are around 80 bucks... (also need to make sure you can connect to the amp you have)  and wires! cable wires! they are also not cheap for a good pair.  Anyways MCKYJ sent you the link where I previously posted similar question.  Most of my files are the same layout as yours.... left channel/right channel.  Or channel 1 and 2 for dvd rips I made.  I'm pretty satisfied with my final set up.  I think in reality it ran me about 550 bucks with the PA system, mics, and CABLES!  Can't stress how much of a difference it makes when you upgrade speaker cables.  (hope I dont' get rip for saying that)

Thank you guys for the quick reply, i actually did read those thread before I post it, but I am still struggling with buying decision.  

1. With mckyj57 recommandation on the previous thread, I am not sure if I know how to read the spec of my home theater amplifer.

Min. RMS Output Power     Main Ch. 80 W + 80 W (0.06% THD)
  (8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz)   Centre Ch.   80 W (0.06% THD)
  (8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz)   Rear Ch.   80 W + 80 W (0.06% THD)
  (8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz)   Rear Centre Ch. 80 W (0.06% THD)
High Dynamic Power, Low-Impedance Drive Capability  Yes
Dynamic Power/Ch (8/6/4/2 ohms)   100/125/160/200 W
Frequency Response (CD) 10 - 100,000 Hz +0, -3 dB
Main Speakers Out 0.06% (40 W / 8 ohms)

Is this enough to push the speaker?
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/MTX-PA-D ... tDetail.do


if it is, then I still need the three things, Mixer, Key changer and Effect unit.  I am assuming I can buy a Mixer with Effect unit (reverb, echo, delay) build in with it, but what do you guys recommand?  If i also need a key changer, what do you guys recommand?

Can this kill 3 birds in one stone?

http://www.vocopro.com/p_mxr.html#da5800

I also notice this mixer doesn't have XLR in, is it better to have XLR? or 1/4" is just fine?

If this mixer is not a recommanded solution, then is my 2 down below a better plan?

2. If my amp won't be able to handle the speaker.  Then will i be better off buying a Power mixer with effect unit build in (reverb, echo, delay)?  I am assuming  Which power mixer do you guys recommand to push the same set of speaker then?  

I know philli1025 bought the Phonic PowerPack 620 PA Package
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PHOPPACK620

but what else do you guys recommand for Power mixer with effect build in if I want to buy it seperately?

3. To philli1025, i saw your whole setup, I just want to know how does it work out for you?  Do you recommand using the amp I talked about as a one stop solution?

http://www.acekaraoke.com/acesonic-am-8 ... rface.html

or you believe it's worth the trouble to buy a seperate PA system like what you have? do those speaker looks strange with the home theater tho?
btw, so a mixer can solve the two channel problem and fuse it into one? I guess that's what a "MIXER" for?

I'm really just a newbie.... Honestly if you're thinking of buying a pair of new speakers and the vocopro unit.. it'll end up around 600 bucks... and i only spent $300 on the phonics... (without cables upgrade etc)  I don't think anyone here is a "fan" of vocopro, but since I've never used it.. I can't really say anything.  

I see 2 cons of the vocopro, you get the remote, and the usb interface (although i'm not sure how the usb interface work)

But for 600 bucks you can get a decent PA system.  (for home use)  Since my room is quite small , my phonics has work out pretty well for me... i'm still in the process of making it more "perfect".  Most of the websites gives you free shipping too so yea you have to wait but it's better then mixing and matching at Circuit city.