Karaoke Forums

I got stuck in a situation something similar to yours 7-8 years ago. I worked for a karaoke business owner who got an opportunity to host a different gig (he had three systems). I couldn't host it for him long-term (I was in college on summer break at the time), so the bar found a "regular" to host for them. She had NO experience in hosting & hadn't really gone anywhere else to sing.

In the two weeks I spent hosting & having her shadow me, I thought she was starting to get it. The following two weeks I shadowed her. I swear, she was only interested in talking to her friends, drinking for free & getting herself & her friends up to sing. No concept of a rotation (to me the #1 cardinal rule for a karaoke show & one I stress ad nauseum). The other regulars were patient for her first week, a little less patient the second. By the third week the other regulars were gone. I was accused of being a "sh*tty" trainer. I retorted (quite bluntly - I knew the owner, bar manager & entire bar staff) that they get what they pay for (drinks only to a 22-year-old) & if it was my business, she would've been fired half-way through her second week. I figured she would grow or fall on her own; it had nothing to do with my "training."

Way too many singers and bar owners think that karaoke hosts & DJ's are just just literally "disc jockeys" and button pushers with no skills, and they try to pay us accordingly. The bar didn't figure it out - they tried to blame the business host. He backed me up (by telling the bar that I know what I'm doing & that I know how to train others), then (to prove it) spent two more weeks with her and shadowed her again. He finally went to the bar manager & said he wasn't going to have anyone that bad hosting a show with his name on it. The bar tried renting equipment from someone else for a couple months & then dropped karaoke all together. A show the owner of the karaoke business had built into a 40+ singer rotation over 6 years killed in a matter of months by a bad host.

I hope it doesn't happen in your bar or in your market. One bad host in a bar will possibly kill karaoke in that bar forever - a piece of your potential market pie gone. I know my story is long-winded, but it illustrates what a poorly planned or poorly-hosted startup business can do to damage what we work hard to build as an under-appreciated (and under-paid) profession.

...this is turning into quite the soap opera, but the good news is that my particular situation may have just been nullified!!

Last night I was at another karaoke bar as a patron and the chick I have been talking about (my owner's GF) was there with some other guys. She didn't see me for quite a while, and in the time that she didn't know I was there she was making out with this other dude the whole time. The look on her face when she realized I was there was priceless.

So, I'm not the kind to immediately go blabbing to the bar owner and break up their relationship, but I certainly have quite the bargining chip and doubt I will be putting up with her BS for quite a while!!

Gotta love a little low level blackmail!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Bang her hard take one for the team........huh???

hmmmmm what is wrong with this picture...the bar owner is still a good guy even tho he is a serial dater...and the girl he is dating should be "banged" for treating the relationship the same way?
as to the blackmail thing, good luck you have lowered yourself to a standard that I no longer consider worthy of consideration

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

We work with what we were given......too many gigs need sleep nite nite.ps lovely pentegram Aliester. Do what thou wilt .....

Yep she is trying to take your job, but the good thing is she is going to be retired soon. If your boss is a player, he will not keep her around much longer. If you are a teacher, teach here. If you are NOT a teach, send her elsewhere. Just be honest with your boss, tell him you are NOT comfortable teaching anyone. Also just straight out ask him if it will affect your relationship if you DON'T teach her.

I didn't mean that I was going to blackmail her in the legal sense of the word, I meant that she knew that I knew that she was cheating on my bar owner, which I assumed would mean that she wouldn't be pushing me around and always getting her way using him anymore. I can't help it that she was making out with some dude right in front of me and didn't know it. I never intended on saying anything either way, but just the fact that I had that info on her (which wasn't something I asked for or pursued), made things easier.

Anyway, they broke up a few days after that incident (and I had nothing at all to do with that, so it is that much better), so my problem is solved. No more pain in the azz girl to worry about!!

Thanks to all that gave advice!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I'm glad that everything worked out ok!

I think a simple statement to the bar owner like ......I invested 30 minutes with this gal on how to mix music and put it in laymans terms that any novice would be able to understand and she could not grasp the concept.  She needs to go work for a multi-rig karaoke company as an employee and get her training that way before she invests a dime in equipment or attempts to run her own show.  Tell him that it would be sorta like him trying to teach the guy who washes dishes or mops the floors how to successfully run his bar and do his book work when he just "does not get it"

Also perhaps laying out some ground rules in this situation would have helped. Like " I will invest an hour of intense training, at the end of that hour we will both know if you have the aptitude for the technical side of this business". If we find that you do not then that is where the training ends.....Fair Enough?   Teachability is extremely important.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

anybody of ANY quality it's going to take more than 30 mins to train them on how to do something.

Some of us are naturals at one thing or another. For me, sound fields wasn't my thing, but I was teachable. Customer service skills were a natural for me.

It took more than 30 mins to fine tune me!

Very true Knight, but you can tell if someone has NO aptitude rather quickly...

I liken it to the old baseball quotation "You can't win the World Series in April, but you can lose it....."

(Either that or the meds for my cold are kicking in....)

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

That's kinda what I was trying to say.

Some folks will never get it and usually you can tell within a short period of time of working with them. Especially if you are using simple and easy to follow verbage and allowing them to play with the controls and get the feel. If I was training someone to run my system and work for me I would invest a little more time.  But the situation that Topher was in....I would invest very little time with this person if they did not show the aptitude for it.

I have been very generous with my time in helping several folks get started in this business and then move on to purchase their own gear and get their own gigs, most of them were quick studies and progressed nicely. Those are the kind of folks that I will invest plenty of time with, as they will become great sources for referrals, and fill-ins when I need a break.

I also agree with Matt.....some folks have limited technical skills, but have great customer service skills. Those folks are also worth the extra effort when it comes to training. However according to Topher this gal would not have fit the mold.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

It just goes back to the unfortunate fact that people don't understand that being a karaoke DJ is work and requires quite a bit of technical knowledge AND people skills to be proficient. I won't say that's what it takes to be successful, because as Lonman said, I have seen plenty of KJs who have no personality and don't know how to run their system but somehow found themselves a kicka** bar to work in and fake it well enough that the bar owners don't know any better.

I actually had a girl come up to me the other day around midnight on a Saturday when my rotation was about 25 people and without a book or anything, just blurted out which song she wanted to sing. I politely told her I needed her to find it in the book and fill out a slip and handed her a book. She got all pissy and started yelling at me, basically saying "why can't you do it for me, all you are doing is standing around." Guess I can't particularly blame her for being ignorant, but of course, being a KJ that is constantly adjusting levels for each and every singer AND cuing up DJ music as filler, I have my hands full every show, and am actively "working" throughout 80% of each and every song. The only time I feel like I get a break is when there is a singer who actually knows how to work a mic (which isn't many!), so I don't have to constantly adjust them. Don't even get me started with the people who act like they are working a mic by moving it all over the place around their face but have no idea why they are doing it other than they saw it on American Idol.

OK, well anyway, I calmly explained to this girl that I had to run the show and didn't want to forget her song, so I needed her to fill out a slip. When she again refused, THEN I lost my cool a bit and told her straight out that ALL I asked of the singers was to fill out a slip, and if she couldn't fulfill this BARE requirement, then she wasn't going to be able to sing. After she complained to the bar owner (which he doesn't care...we had a laugh about her later), THEN she finally filled out a slip (and didn't put her name on it...I'm sure that was just her little way of getting the last word in). Anyway, my point it that 99% of singers have absolutely no idea what we do. They somehow think all we do is put a disc in and push a button. KJs rarely get any respect for the work they actually do, probably because there are plenty of them out there that just put in a disc and push a button!!

The other one that always cracks me up is when a singer points the mic directly at the monitor or covers the entire mic while doing their best gansta impression and there is feedback and EVERYONE looks straight at THE KJ with a "why are you doing that" look. At this point, I know it is inevitable, but I do make sure during the closest music break or after the song to explain to the singer why there was feedback, though they inevitably do the exact same thing again the next time they sing.

But it's all good.....the $20K a year of supplemental income wipes away my yearning for respect pretty quickly...

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C Mc
KJ, FL

That probably could've been you making out with her, ever occur to you that she likes you, or liked you ?


Yep,  and why ?   If she's at different places making out with guys on other nights, I wonder why she "has always come to your show" ?   Her appearing to "think she's better than everybody else" is just a coping mech for her insecurity, she needs attention.  Which get's back to why she'd end up VERY bored as an entertainer in that type venue.

You assume the owner of the bar isn't aware of the way she is, or she isn't aware of the way he is, or either of them care who's screwing around with whom..Of course the owner of your bar that drove there with her (the night you saw her making out with another guy) was probably in his car messing around with another girl in the parking lot during this same episode, for all you know the bar owner might've set her up with HIM to get rid of her, but heck, it could've been you.  Sounds as though neither the bar owner, or this girl are going to be heartbroken after this weekend fling comes to an end, assuming it hasn't alreqady, they are both playing around (which is fine),  for all you know, neither wants a monogamous relationship, or is committed to holding loyalty in reverence.  Just make certain you don't get an STD from having her too close to your equipment

You can rest assured he does NOT want her cramping his style, I doubt he wants her around !

That said-

Her training for becoming an entertainer (not to mention her interest in this particular area) will end up as long-lived as David Dukes presidential campaign. The owner has had you for 3 years, and assuming he's the "player" you claim he is I doubt he wishes to solidify her time at his bar.  If this were the case, she'd be waitressing or a bar-back.  I doubt he wants her around.  This is a fleeting interest for her, as is her time around that bar. He's likely trying to dump her on you, or keep her from hounding him. Either way, I doubt she'll enjoy working with sound equipment, dealing with drunken audiences, since she doesn't sound as if she's the type cut-out to handle diplomacy, hang onto an interest that requires such an investment, or deal with anything in this area of customer service anyway. She'll get antsy before ever even hauling that equipment to a gig, let alone heading to a music store to buy the equipment.  She's just biding time while hanging around that bar, and she's on borrowed time.

SO~

Just teach her for about another 1/2 hour, within that time-span she'll see the bar owner making out with her sister (after having rid himself of her for a few minutes); She'll end up hurt and angry, realize she never wanted to be a KJ anyway, run out of that bar spiteful (either alone, or with you).... Besides, the bar owner is probably done with her, he's trying to set you up with a new GF since he knows you need to get lucky.   Give this budding love affair a chance Topher, If you really can't stand being with her (assuming she can't grasp how mixer sliders work with their respective individual channels) show her how standing in a pan of salt-water barefooted while holding a corded microphone and tweaking a power amp has a traditional metaphysical type means of enhancing her audiences appreciation of her show, OR; Offer to take her sky-diving, From what this sounds like (Even assuming she's not blond), you might be not only doing yourself a favor,  but doing the bar owner, and her future clientel a favor as well.  :worship:

OF course there's an easier way to rid yourself of her,  take her to a location that has anything around it that's male, and leave her for 10 minutes after telling her
"Honey you know how jealous I am, please don't let me catch you flirting with Fido during the 10 minutes I'm away, it will break my heart"..  Guaranteed, she'll run off with the male that makes you jealous despite it's species...

Oh yeah,  of course there's another option too..


(You can also do the "manly thing" and forget her personality,  ask the bar owner if she's "any good", and if-so, barter). If she can't grasp sliders, my guess is she won't enjoy working THAT kind of equipment ) LMAO


But seriously,  here's the best advice I can give you... Buy a bar in your area and lower your standards in women !  if you find this too difficult to do, let me know of some bars in your area that are for sale,  I need a fun little predicament too  :shock:

                                                                  Kappy, (just another male pig)

Let them do their own thing.  She wants to have other relationships, as does he.. No law against it !   What this should indicate to you is that SHE WILL NOT end up working in his bar as a KJ.  Unless they are both stupid, and nuts that'd be living hell for both of them !  YOU have 3 years of history established with him, and nothing to worry about.  He wouldn't wish to jeapardize his crowd to subpar entertaiment,  I doubt he's a dummy..  He knows which side of the bread his...... (ack, it's late I forgot the metaphor)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Despite the fact that this would accomplish nothing positive for you, solve nothing since there is no problem AND you always have the option of telling her AND him "I don't have the time to teach you how to KJ, I have to entertain here, and have a busy schedule", you can tell the owner that to hold her hand while you try to entertain impedes your job as his performer.  You can't simultaneously be offering quality entertainment AND teaching a new person the ropes, they are two VERY different areas and conflict with one-another.. Saying this should be respected, this isn't a situation where there's a real problem, telling him anything about her cheap behaviour (assuming it IS in fact cheap behaviour) will make many annoyed at YOU.


Do you have the type of relationship with this owner where he'd appreciate you telling him this ?  If-not you'd be cheapening yourself.  Assuming he has an ego, he might construe this as you telling him out've the blue "hey guy, you aren't that special, she's cheap" so he'd be forced to say to you "I know how she is, I'm glad she's found somebody else to bother" (whether he means this or not),  you put him on the defensive UNLESS you are his confidante,  You have nothing to gain by telling him something he might not wish to hear, questionably even assuming he'd want to know It's not a good area for you to be wandering into.  He might know you don't like her, he'll know your motive isn't unselfish but regardless, he might very well feel that you've chartered into his "private life" which might be an area he doesn't wish for you to be in.  Your offering him such information not only cheapens her, but depending on his ego, might cheapen HIM and YOU in his eyes as well, and the reality here is NEITHER of them have wronged you.  He's been a loyal employer, and she's only guilty of being immature and insecure, somewhat bratty, or all of the above, but those who've claimed your job might be in jeapardy have as much a reason to believe this to be-so, as they do to believe it unlikely based on your overall presentation.  Facts are (if all you typed is read) "She wants to learn, and MIGHT have a job elsewhere", is likely true, but YOU have the advantage of knowing your boss, and how he operates in the business sense as well as with his flighty relationships.  Logically, how could she last or even begin ?   You know more than we do, and from all you've stated, the only predicament is something all entertainers need to at times deal with which is followers with big egos who carry themselves as if all owe them a living and a special place,  people who act as she does on the exterior ARE a pain-in-the-butt for ALL)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".