Karaoke Forums

What do you guys consider duplicate listing of songs?
Where do you draw the line?

1. Same song by the same artist by different  disc manufacturer;
ie SC vs Zoom

2. Same song by the same artist but a shorter version
ie American Pie.

3. Same song by the same artist but different version
ie one is a life version or remix or Radio ver. vs original

4. Same song by the same artist but a duet version with another artist.

5. Same song but by different artists.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

to me, it's duplicate only if it's the same artist and same song...

However, in my old books, I did list "shorter" version over "regular" version. Or "unplugged" over regular, etc. There were times I wish I hadn't, though! !

1.  The exact same version released by a different karaoke manu is what I would call a DUPE.  I am a firm believer that a karaoke book should only list the "best" version of every song (a "master" book should be available just in case someone MUST have another version other than the one listed).  For some strange reason karaoke singers often select the WORST possible version of a song when all versions are listed.  


2 and 3.  If we are dealing with LEGITIMATE different versions of the same song they would count as different songs and should be listed as such in a karaoke songbook.  Versions that are "karaoke edits" are not truly legitimate versions IMHO and should not be listed if a CORRECT version is available (unless the CORRECT version is horrible).  When a singer sees a song listed in a book it should be EXACTLY the song he thinks that it is - not something else.  I remember once selecting "Fly" by Sugar Ray at a show and discovering that this version is some weird dance mix (It wasn't listed as "dance remix").  This is a song that I usually do very well but I had trouble figuring this one out (I believe it was on Sybersound).  


4.  If you have a song such as "Missing You" by John Waite (the original version) and the new duet version by John Waite and Alison Krauss they are obviously both different versions of the same song and should BOTH be listed.

I would list both a SOLO version and a DUET version if you have two LEGITIMATE solo or duet versions of the same song.  What I mean is that the solo version has the one part in the background and is set up for one person to sing.  A version that doesn't have the parts correctly split up (with different colors) but includes the text for both parts IS NOT a SOLO version but an incorrect version IMHO.


5.  The same song a different artist would obviously count as a different song as the arrangement, instrumentation, and sometimes the lyrics are changed in a cover recording.  "I Will Survive" by Gloria Gaynor (original) and "I Will Survive" by Cake are the same song but done quite a bit different - even some of the lyrics in the Cake cover have been changed.


The bottom line is that a true DUPE of a song is one with the exact same arrangement done by different karaoke manus.  I really don't understand why it is necessary to list 12 different versions of "The Dance" by Garth Brooks in a songbook when there is maybe one or perhaps a few others which are much better than the rest.  Even more puzzling to me are the songbooks which list like 4 different Chartbuster versions of the same song - this is a waste of ink and book space IMHO.

Echo Mikes complete post!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The problem with NOT LISTING (some) dups is very simple

THE Best VersionIS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER
   - some have claimed all of KJ's (I meant DK's) productions were not in the right key
   - some versions are more correct musically but the swipes suck
   - some have complained about the Pan Flute in the background of DK and BS products, others like it
   - some productions have the correct backup singers but aren't necessarily the most correct otherwise

ALSO, what do you do when you acquire a new version of a song that you now believe is the best version?  Do you retire the previous best version?   And must the new version be markedly better or just slightly better than the old best version before you retire the old one?  And who has time for all of that?

I CAN GO ON AND ON - But considser this.  It is most unlikely that you'll ever get two KJ's to agree more than 70% of the time as to what's THE BEST VERSION.  And they both might change their opinions after hearing the original.  So who actually made the best best version ?

There are no dupes, unless you list the same version, artist, and disc mfr. twice.  The BEST version is the one your singers ask for most......


          I keep them all because you never know which version your singer practiced with and I like keeping them all happy.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

It seems like they are two points of view; from the singers perspective and from the JK points of view.

The singers version of the best copy is the one he/she is familiar with. But on the other hand the KJ wants to get his book down to a manageable size. As such he feel the need to help choose the best version of that song.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I think this would call for a listing like this:


The "best" version is listed, but alternative version codes are
shown in parens. This conserves paper but gives the info for those
who want to provide choices to their singers.

If you write your own songbook processor as I do, and you are already
picking a "best" version, it would be realistic to do.

well, see, right now I would disagree with your CHARTBUSTER version over the SC version of "Jack and Diane"... but I like the fact the you put it in your book that way.

I had a singer's book with what I felt was the best version, but openly told folks I had a master book of ALL versions that they could look thru if they felt the one I had wasn't up to par!

It was just for the purpose of illustration -- it is the only CB Mellencamp I have.


It isn't necessarily what's up to par, it's what we are used to. I am a relative beginner at singing and karaoke, and I feel a lot more comfortable with the version I practice with, even though it may not be the "best".

Of course I usually bring my own CDs, but it is not unprecedented for hosts to claim they can't play my disk because they are all-digital. I don't like it, because then I have to deal with a strange version and the possibility of the host mucking up the key change, which happens way too often.

I used to list just the "BEST" version of each song based solely on the disc manufacturer. I have a little under 12K songs, so it is not like I went through and listened to each one to determine which version I liked best. HOWEVER, I found out quickly that some of the versions I listed as the best versions, simply because they were on a SC, DK, CB, etc. disc, were certainly not the best versions.

SO, when I redid my books this year, I listed ALL versions that I have and marked the songs that are on the more consistantly good discs with an asterisk. Then, in both footers at the bottom of the page (per the KJ Pro format), I indicated that the asterisk means that that particular version comes from a more high-quality disc. This way, the singer still has the option to pick another version if they know something about that version, but they also have the guide to point them to what is likely the best available version.

However, the REAL reason that I went the route of listing ALL my songs instead of just one version of each is this: The guy down the street from me has a book that claims 6,500 songs. He lists his dups and has admitted to me that of his 6,500 songs he actually only has about 2,800 unique songs. I have around 8,400 unique songs that comes out to a little under 12,000 with dups. My old book was extremely organized and had ONLY my non-duplicated songs, and fit snuggly into a 1/2 inch binder.

HIS 6,500 song WITH dup book was created partly with MS Excel, but a good chunk of it he just photocopied the liner notes of each disc and threw that photocopy into the book. It is COMPLETELY unorganized and makes no sence besides the part that was done in Excel. HOWEVER, due mostly to his lack of organization, his book takes up the better part of a 1" binder.

Due to the sheer perception of his book being "larger" in actual size, I had people ALL THE TIME for the better part of a year asking me why the guy down the street had more songs than I did. Of course I told them all that I had about 3X more songs, but my book was just more organized and didn't contain duplicate entries, but the point is that the PERCEPTION of a larger book was more persuasive than actually having more songs.

SO, when I redid my books in January, it now contains my dups and almost fills a 1 1/2" binder. Since unleashing these books, no one has said anything about the guy down the street having more songs.

Don't underestimate the power of perception when it comes to the books!! Most people aren't generally as sophisicated (a.k.a. smart) as you may give them credit for!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Very true, which is why I have a sheet in the front stating simply, I may have a different version of particular songs that you may be used to as I buy from many manufacturers.  I only list 1 version of each song that I feel is the best, feel free to ask if I have another version when you turn in your slip.  




I will list the new version in the new section for a while to let it get picked & then get the response then make the determination after a certain amount of time.  If I don't hear a marked improvement, then I just leave it alone, but if I get positive feedback, it becomes the new version for the next book revision.  Who has time for that, someone who cares to know!



Very true.  Who made the best version to me goes by what I hear on the radio & lyrical accuracy - have them both in the same version - it's what gets listed.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

How small do you have your print?  I have my books divided into separate books 1 for title & 1 for artist, both are listed double columned & very tight rows.  Each of these books are in 1 1/2" binders each and this is listing only 10,500 NON duplicated songs.  I looked at my master and the duplicate rating isn't MUCh higher at 13,400.

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I only have 4,500 unique songs, with 6450 total. I found that people like the artist book more, so I printed up songbooks that have both artist and title, back-to-back, with two separate covers. If you flip the title book over, you have an artist book.

I may use the same format as Lonnie as I derived mine from the MTU song book. But I post-process my listing with a Perl script, since the way they show their disk IDs is poor (IMHO). So I replace the book ID -- which I don't use -- with the disk ID and track number. If I did normal karaoke shows, it would allow people who know to request their favorite version. It also makes sure it fits on one line when possible (I limit titles to 40 chars).

Since I also have Perl scripts which manipulate the .kma file to edit title/artist/mux/genre info, I could probably use the MUX field for a "best" version marker and then add that to the output of the song book. When I post-process, I could then list only that version and add the (CB,LG) stuff somewhere in line.

Sounds complicated, and I use my song books about 5 times a year, so I probably won't do it. But I think I could.

My books are made through KJ Pro:

Two colums by artist, 1/4" indent, Times New Roman, 11 font size...184 pages total, which makes for 92 pages of double-sided print. I couldn't quite figure out how exactly this worked, but the indention actually saved me about 12 total pages (6 double sided).

I have also replaced the normal disc-naming convention with my own system that isn't quite as cumbersome, so I think that helps with compacting the book as well.

After completing the books I thought that maybe I could have squeezed them into 1" binders, but I got a really good deal on some 1 1/2" heavy-duty D-Ring binders from a surplus wholesaler (got 12 for around $40), so I went ahead and got those so I can hopefully use them a little longer than the cheapies I previously used (which still seem to hold up for about a year).

I used to have books by title and hardly anyone ever used them, so I did away with them. I have an occational person ask me for a book by title, but 95% of the time I can tell them who the artist is if they tell me the song they are looking for, so I don't feel like I need them.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

This I admit is not their strongest feature - I don't use their book creator either (prefer to make my own custom designs through Access).  However they will be changing that in version 4 which will allow to list either book id or disc id.

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