Karaoke Forums

ok I am about to get off topic so I better shut up

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

about to? l

shhhhhhhhh I am trying to be good
or less bad
orrrrr...

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

i think most kj's just feel heck i can make some money at this..go out get what they need and go at it....not everyone has an ear for mixing....not everyone can sing...put the 2 together u get a mess, and it's blamed on the poor singer...

Well back to my original example, this girl said she couldn't hear herself no matter what I did.

My monitor is the slant/monitor version of the Yamaha BR12 driven at 300 watts. It is pretty top notch as far as karaoke monitoring goes. The way my stage is set up, the singer's screen has them facing out towards the audience with the monitor facing back towards the singer. This means that the singer is about 5-7 feet from the monitor and ALSO means that the monitor is pointing back towards me as well, though I am more like 15 feet or so away from the sound. I don't run my monitor on its own independent EQ. I run this monitor through the C-R Out jacks on my mixer and monitor the main mix and pan my vocals slightly to the left in my mix. I do this because I can then hear the actual house mix very clearly and make adjustments to that on the fly. Of course, the "limitation" to this setup is that I can not individually EQ the monitor, though I don't think you should need to. I don't see any logical reason why the singer should hear a mix that is completely different than the main mix that everyone else is hearing. I think no matter what a singer tells you, what they really want is just to hear themselves the way everyone else is hearing them. Plus, in the case of singers like the one in my example, I still have the option in my set up of controlling the volume relationship of the vocal and the music if I need to.

Anyway, so my point (before some people chimed in and implied that I don't know how to use my monitoring system) is that I am twice as far away from the monitor as the singers, and I could CLEARLY hear this girl through the monitor and the mix relationship was spot on. On her next song, I cut the music volume by about 25% and raised her vocal volume about 25% to where I thought she sounded like she was absolutely BLARING through the monitor. Honestly, I thought I was skewing it almost absurdly because I was offended at her saying my equipment was crappy and wanted to prove a point, yet she again stated that she couldn't hear herself. I'm pretty sure at the levels I had the monitor running on that song, that people about 35 feet away at the pool tables could hear almost nothing but her vocal through the monitor.

I was most certainly some issue she was having, and not a problem with my system or skills as a mixer, which is why I was asking if anyone had any insight. I think the best answer I received was that some singers think that the vocals have to DOMINATE the mix, while I certainly am of the opinion that the vocals should certainly have a bit more presence than the music as to make it intelligible, and that's about it, and that is how I EQ. The worst answer I received was from those who said I didn't know what I was doing, which means that they didn't take the time to read my problem (and obvious grasp on mixing) and had no intention of answering my question. This thread turned from me asking for constructive help to a pissing contest way too quickly.

Either way, thanks to those who attempted to give me a constructive answer, but I think this is still a mystery in the case of this one girl!! When she comes back in I'll get to the bottom of it, she is a semi-regular and we are on friendly terms, so I'll figure her out!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

THe main reason for eq'ing a monitor separately is feedback issues.  Most sound engineers would agree, if they had 1 eq, they'd put it on the monitor first, because if it feedsback, the feedback also hits the main speakers.  If the monitor doesn't feedback, less chance of main speaker feedback - provided they are properly placed.

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I understand that, but I also rarely have feedback issues, and when I do I can fix it by EQing the main mix that is coming through the monitor in the first place (mic channel and/or music channel).

Actually, 95% of my feedback issues can be solved by telling the singer to stop cupping their hand over the mic like a gansta or pointing the mic directly at the monitor!! Funny how they always think it is the KJs fault, though!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Oh, that's cool.  You had stated you couldn't think of any logical reason why the monitor would need to individually mixed.  I was giving a main reason for the eq on the monitor - this way it doesn't affect the mains either.  Also I have to disagree with the what singers want is what everyone should hear.  I have some singers that want absolutely NO vocals in the monitor, then I have singers that want absolutely NO music in the monitors - if you are tapping off the main line, you can't give these special mixes to the ones singing.



This much is true!

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LONMAN  (Also I have to disagree with the what singers want is what everyone should hear. )

i think u misunderstood me, i meant what a singer wants is what a singer should get....within reason of course....not talking mains just monitors....

the key being within reason



TOPHER, if you'll go back and read my comment u will see that it wasn't aimed at u but at those responding to ur thread....read closely....as far as YOUR mixing skills, they weren't addressed....only YOU know ur skills at mixing...

if you had read my comment  you would have realized that if  i was pissed it was at the other's higher than mighty replies, putting as it seemed to me the average r below average singers down....

my point was to let them/kj's know that it's not all on the singer's shoulder but the kj himself/herself.....i wasn't putting you down in any way, if you read in that comment where i did then u must fit under the not knowing what ur doing group....if not then i wasn't addressing you....if you took it that way i'm sorry, wasn't meant that way...

but if you feel that the advise u received which was....(SOMETIMES THEY LISTEN BUT DON'T HEAR)...helped you by all means go with it...to me again it's just putting people down and trying to make others feel you know more than they do....little man complex....

on ur mixing i completely agree, for the house anyway....you might try adding some mids to HER mix... again when it comes to the monitor, it's what THEY like not what YOU like... the house is another story.....

sorry if i upset you....JMO....Billy

and YESSSSSSSSSS i'm taking something for my PMS....

Oh, no problem. I'm an easy-going guy and certainly don't stay up at night worrying about anything on the karaoke forum.

As a side note, that same girl came in last night and all of the sudden could hear herself fine, even before I adjusted anything out of my normal parameters for her. That got me to thinking about the differences between last night and the last time she sang, and I think I have a new theory.

Last night (Wednesday) was slow, even for a Wednesday. I average about 50-60 people at the peak of a typical Wednesday and a rotation of about 10-15 singers. Last night there were about 35-40 people in the bar and about an 8 singer rotation throughout the night.

Saturdays, I average about 140-160 people with about a 20-25 person rotation, and it isn't uncommon to have standing room only and around 200 people in the 6,000 SF bar.

SO, I'm now thinking that maybe the crowd noise/background noise and general activity of the bar patrons have something to do with it. That many people in a confined space drinking, dancing, singing along, etc. just makes a good bit of noise. Now, I obviously compensate with more volume, but it still has to be a distraction, especially since on crowded nights there are often people dancing within a foot or less of the singer.

So I'm going to be cognizant of that Saturday and see if I can't figure out a better way to compensate, if possible.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

She might have even had an mild upper- respiratory infection, that was affecting her hearing........ ...gotta role with the punches sometimes.....

I personaly like my monitors loud, clean and with plenty of vocal. But the problem I have is that most singers at Karaoke want the effect that is on the main also on thier monitor, so they can hear how great they sound to the rest of the people in the bar. I run the mix from in front of the mains and cannot hear the stage monitors, so I run 1 signal to the mains from the main output and one to the monitors. I EQ them differant because the subs send alot of lows back to the stage and I can shape the sound to be the same on stage and the mains. That way what I hear in front is what the singer hears on stage. I only run into a problem when I run into someone who likes to sing to a clean monitor, usually I explain the set up and the opt to leave in the effect. I run all my Mics through Compressors and Feedback eliminators so feedback isn't usually a problem unless as was stated we have someone who loves to grab around the mic capsule or a vocalist who has a very weak voice, or dosn't want to be heard so they sing as quiet as they can. Oh yeah I forgot about the rap video people who think the mic should work 2 feet to the side and above thier head. I have found that if I keep raising thier mic volume dosn't always work for some I have had to reduce the mic and they bring the mic closer.

As far as the singer you have described the number of people is a good guess, as we have a bar that is quite small and when you get a couple hundred people in it , it get very hard to hear the singer above the croud without getting feedback.

Lon I wish I lived closer to you, I think I would enjoy singing at one of your shows, it seems you are a KJ that cares about how well the sound comes out.

Wish you did too, can always use another great singer  :D

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