Karaoke Forums

Hey guys,

Invited in by Karyoker,  I am in the Phoenix market.   He wanted to know what is going on.   The letters you are talking about have been sent via certified mail to nearly every one of our bars.  

The letter is a simple cover letter telling the bar they are at risk by having a host using computer based Karaoke systems and it then contains a copy of the Sound Choice press release.  The press release can be found here:

http://karaokestar.com/sounchoicsta11.html

I see Timberlea on here and recognize his name from the forums on Sound Choice.  He and I will have to agree to disagree.  

I have over the years personally reported 5 different hosts who I know were using illegal copies with NO originals.  

SPIN, KAPA, Sound choice DID NOTHING!

I have given them name, physical address, e-mails on several individuals selling hard drives.  I offered them the hard drive as evidence.   It contains 105,000 karaoke songs and the ENTIRE Sound Choice catalog.  

THEY DID NOTHING!

I have sent them user name and info for karaokeinfo.com and pleaded for them to bust them…. NOTHING!

We have been doing karaoke for over 12 years and we have over 100,000 in receipts for originals.  I subscribed to Power Picks for 4 years and purchased 3 of every disk.   We have over $35,000 in just Sound Choice receipts.  We are a computerized Karaoke company, but we DO have one for one versions of all disks, but we do not keep them at shows... (that kind of kills the whole benefit).

I have posted where I am running all of my Karaoke shows on Sound Choice's forums and told them to come and get me so we can go see the judge.  They deleted my post and you guessed it... THEY DID NOTHING!

Now some education.  I have read the Digital Millenium Act cover to cover.  The word Karaoke or graphic are not in the document.  I have read all applicable sections of copyright law that they are proposing….

The word karaoke or graphic do not appear anywhere in any of the documents.  

Fair Use is defined as for private use only… However my Karaoke disks actually say not for us for public performance.  Sound Choice originally was selling those almost entirely to KJ’s.  They have admitted. “that is not what we meant.

I have an article printed from Sound Choice’s FAQS page in 1999 that states you can make one copy for backup purposes and in the event your original is lost or destroyed you can use that at a show.   IT IS OFF THEIR WEBSITE!

Bottom line… If it ever comes down to it format shifting will be ruled to be fair use for many reasons.  Read the article on ipjustice.org for more info.  

Next Bottom line… Sound Choice is suffering as technology makes Karaoke less expensive and they are being sued because they did not obtain legal rights in the first place to most of their disks.  They paid compulsories after the fact, but why do you think they have pulled the Eagles disk , Celine Dion disks, Alanis Morrisette, and many others… because someone raised a fuss after the fact and forced them to since they never got legal permission.  They are trying to stop us fomr format shifting so they can charge us more money and sell us the same song in digital format for way more than we paid for it in the first place.

I have no spoken to 3 IP attorneys regarding this matter.  They say it is entirely civil.  Sound Choice would have to prove how you have damaged them and caused a loss of revenues.  They also say it would be comical for Sound Choice to try to drag you into court for violating their copyright on a work that they never obtained legal permission to release in the first place and that they are not the actual artist that wrote the work.  

We are in the process of removing any Sound Choice that we have in any other format and we are now into our 3rd year of boycotting their disks.  We are buying all of the companies that are on Super CDG and we are buying all of the Panorama Monthlies as they are releasing them in mp3+G format to start with.

I am working to create a national alliance for Karaoke hosts and have already gotten reseller accounts set up with Panorama and CAVS so that I can give KJ’s better discounts than are available on retailer sites. There will be more info coming up on all of this.

Thank you sir for that post.... That is basically what we have been thinkig but couldnt put into words as effectively as you  just did For a first post I would have nominate it for the post of the year..

It has cleared this mind on some finer points.. Thanks again that was appreciated by all and by all means dont be a stranger... Welcome aboard

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starzkaraoke

Welcome to Karaoke Scene.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

There's a tendency for people to confuse "Fair Dealing", with the Fair Use (four point) doctrine, or defense which is NOT as limited in its application as some seem to feel it is. As a defense to the public, "Fair Use" is quite flexible !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That still wont eliminate piracy, but it is a good idea.

Perhaps we should all pettetion the manus to come up with lisencing (free or fee based) that would allow a KJ to do a 1:1 copy of a disc.  Heck I would pay some $$$$ for a peice of mind!!!!!!

Hey starzkaraoke, welcome to the site!
They're doing something now!

Receipts don't mean anything if you don't have the original disc. All a receipt proves is at ONE TIME you owned the disc.
You're correct in that the gray area around this is that THIS SPECIFIC format isn't listed per se, but the karaoke disc is obviously a musical disc, and until challenged in court, they can claim this as a common sense application.
Yes, at ONE TIME, they did have this on their site. They've since changed their minds. The words on the disc are only saying that because merely by buying that disc doesn't authorize you to play those discs for public use... for that, you need proper ASCAP and BMI licensing. You need that with ANY commercial use of any recorded music.

the url specified is only a common sense interpretation, and NOT a legal decision. As you mentioned earlier, there has been no karaoke court case tried yet! So you don't really KNOW that is going to be the decision. You never know, you might get some tight-a&& judge that will honor the law AS IS, and not go into a common sense decision at all!
MOST of their discs? a few examples doesn't mean MOST. And many times, the discs are pulled nowadays because someone changed their minds or a change in management that has a reversal on the earlier decision.

Laws  or applications of exisisting laws  are not determined by greedy manus greed but by legistrature or actual court cases, not by some manus desire...

There  is not a court case in this counrtry that addesses the legality of using format shifting for karaoke in fact I can google karaoke court cases until the cows come home .. THERE ARE NONE...

Becuse the cdg manus  are not pure white...Are you??

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Matt why do you support and show allengience to a corp  that cares less about your profits or well-being?  They dont support you  They could care less about your business All they worry about is their ability to control you and your businees and how you use their products.. You either stand or put your tail between your legs...

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karyoker, as stated before the most probable reason that there is no case law is that the Defendant settled before it went to court.  No court, no case law.  It's that simple.  I doubt there is a host out there that is willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to defend themselves.  It's much easier to cease and desist and pay a fine.  Most things are settled before the inside of a courtroom is seen.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

No most are going to private parties and staying home.. Even singers dont want to put up with the crap...When something is over regulated it goes underground.. It is not about copyright it i about greed......

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I am now down to one bar gig and may be phasing that out within a few months. I have been trying to get away from them for several years and replace them with private functions. I have been very successful in obtaining private gigs in the past 2 years and now it may be much easier for me to let go of that final bar gig. I've been hanging on to it because I've been there 3-1/2 yrs and really enjoy the regulars there. It's almost like a party with your closest friends only in a bar setting.

I own my originals and I'm PC based, but maybe the time has come to remove myself from this madness and focus my energies on other markets. I just don't like someone telling me how or what I can my music on. I'm not hurting a sole by playing them on a different format.

There is no way on earth I'm going to lug 1300 discs around to every show that I do so there is not a chance of me ever going back to a player. Unless maybe I could find a way to reduce that down to say 300 discs and get a good coverage that would please most of my guests.....and that's not gonna happen.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Aye Carumba-

I'm going back to teaching the macarena

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The opinions of Sammy do not necessarily reflect the views of the Karaoke Scene Magazine - Advice is given with a sence of humor and should be taken accordingly - If you have problems setting the clock on your VCR - You've come to the right place

Don't Know if anyone has posted this.

http://ipjustice.org/wp/2007/02/22/karaoke_legal_myths/

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Opie & Anthony, a national radio show both broadcast and on satellite are doing the following:


They are holding a Karaoke contest where the singers send in 60 seconds of themselves and their accompaniment. The music is chosen from O&A's song book, downloaded to the singer, who records with it, and is then sent to the show where it will be re-broadcast over satellite and regular radio.

This will tell me if there are any worries for me, because if they don't get busted, no one will. However, if others' get busted and they don't, nothing will hold up in court....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Radio shows generally pay for their rights - they are monitored pretty heavily so any karaoke repruduction would still be paid.  Now as for them sending the contestant the karaoke song for them to record is very iffy!

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Entire different ball game As the CE of a TV station I got busted by the FCC I have had personal dealings with them in commercial broadcast and as CB and shortwave frequency radios..They have hard set laws that are not debatable and protect citizens rights and broadcasters rights against those that would engage in shady crap... They would  chew up RIAA or anybody else in a heartbeat.. They are a REAL Federal agency and as such protect our rights in a very diligent manner... Dont screw with them.. Uncle Charley & RIAA  If the artists dont get exposure in major markets their cd's wont sell.. RIAA going after music broadcast stations???? What a fantasy that is....

Now if anybody wants to debate the broadcast industry Ill have you on talk shows and TV interviews in a minute..Ill have you arguing with experts and professionals. As I sit here and type one of my best buddies is doing a remote with 7 in Denver..

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Ask him if it still does any good to get on chickenband 9, and curse out REACT.  I'm still awaiting them triangulating in on me.  It's been 45 years since *one particularly nasty event* and they still can't find me .   Same day the woods caught on fire from that hotair balloon I made out've my dad's plastic suitcover, two sticks, tinfoil cup, gauze & lighter fluid.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

There is many types of spurious transmissions Most man-made and some natural..Some are preventable and I fought them for 60 years .But I will guarantee you this the federal government isnt worried about some idiot singing with a multiple generation copy of some music track and rebroadcasting

I have said this before and I will say it again.. The freedom of speech in this land has been hampered by many liberal F*** A*** H** and at some point some district judge is going to say no....

There have been a comment or 2 on  here I must be 120 years old > I was wiring houses, barns and chicken houses and fixing TRF receivers when I was 12 years old (1952). I was the only one in the USN to become fully qualified on the Talos missile system , schooled and qualified to maintain  all components (The only one)

I have attend more military schools and college engineering schools than 90% of of the professionals in the field today.

And as a professional in the broadcast industry I will not tolerate innuendos, amateur opinions of legalilities, or false rumors about  an industry that is fully regulated  and cannot be compared to the manical KJ business or manical suing greed of others in the music industry. I will pin you to the wall...

I will use formal and legal english in a heartbeat..

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There's some irony to what becomes more liberal, and what gets clamped down on and is deemed illegal.  While certain ridiculous things become more liberal, and other aspects clamp down, the area and ease in which people can transmit hate-speech as well as their spam and or porn internationally increases with even more ease, no age limit, and no license involved.. Now America Online is free for all.

Last I knew (since I have followed so little of this lately) ham radio required licensing, and it's a good thing too (in the case of emergencies THAT isn't an area I'd wish to see cluttered with crap) Radio-Relay leagues such as NRRL.  At least there might be something still that's somewhat respectable and sacred to some.

I had to take tests to get my Lafayette microphone for my 23 channel CB that could output perhaps 4 watts) late 60's, even a 1 watt handheld required a license (I think anything over 500 mw).  Novice (at or around 25 watts required 13 wpm CW as I vaguely recall), and getting my General was tougher.   BUT,  look at who they allow to spam the whole world with typed garbage and porn stuff Online these days ?.... EVERYBODY.. No license needed  LMAO ..  So many ISP's, so much international crud getting exchanged... and I think back to when I was a young teen trying to bribe the sales guy at LRE to give me the microphone when I bought the CB rig without having to take an FCC test.


Good thing I can't drink ,  doc and the FCC would confiscate my computer, and impound my hands in a heartbeat. The trouble I'd get into is unimagineable.  LMAO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".