Karaoke Forums

Google fair use act supreme court...You can read for days....

Since a karaoke cd has nothing to with the original artists copyright (if the cd manu paid the proper fees) and since there is no financilal gain how can this be construed as anything other than personal?  If indeed ther singer did download it then burn a cd then he shouldnt take it into a bar...

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

TTowntenor, Here's what I can offer about that, I have seen the actual letter and am trying to get a copy of it, no one is real enthused about giving me a copy. I do know that there have been as many as 20 bars that have had SC. removed from there hard drives  or from there kj's hard drives, At this point no one has been shut down and eveyone is waiting to see what happens. I also know of several kj's that have put there cav's machines away and are buying disc's as fast as they can. When I'm able to get someone to let loose of the actual letter I will be the first to post it.

Exactly Ollie,  and Restitution is MONETARY, and monetary loss to the Plaintiff must somehow be substantiated.  I think the ugliest part of being sued in such a case is retaining an Atty at todays rate of $200-$400 per hour, with a retainer starting at around $2500 up..   Despite a slap on the wrist (likely) outcome, a person still can be sued, and I'd never as a lay person wish to go into Civil court pro se.  As to what happens once sued, and how many turns these cases take, it's ANYONES guess.  Not too many life imprisonments however  LMAO

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

What often happens (and this is just a guess) is arbitrary individuals are used as example by companies that have a lot of money to gain publicity and try to thwart off further attempts..  So one day Mom knocks on my basement door and says "Hey Kappy", and hands me a piece of paper served by abode (rubberbanded to the door of the double-wide trailer)



SUMMOMS CIVIL                                           DISTRICT SUPERIOR COURT
                                                                  NEW HAVEN CT.

                               PLAINTIFF:  SOMY BNG
                                             VS
                               DEFENDANT:  KAPPY

                                   YOU ARE BEING SUED

ANSWER DATE:  APRIL 1, 2007

                                          COMPLAINT :
(loads of scary sounding legalese to follow because I have become an example of what you shouldn't do, and a suit is public so this can serve as a means of showing XXX Corp. means business, and this will in fact impede further Copyright infringement cases)

(loads and loads of jargon to follow making me appear as a horrible person for DL'ing 1000 songs per hour on Kazaa)
1
2
3
4




600
601   etc...

loads of pages citing copyright law violation

TRUE COPY ATTEST  
SIGNED BY:  Karyoker MARSHALL


Answer date comes around, and the defendant might show, or file,  Plaintiff likely will not even show (too costly for a corporation to appear for a day in court)  Likely case will end in default nonappearance judgement, SOMY has done all they can really do anyway, scared the #($( out've quite a few.. and I certainly feel weird to say the least, most would, I have spent money on an Atty, and I likely will now only download from Grockster  LOL

In the meantime, my mom has grounded me, and is calling townhall every day to see if there's a judgement of Lis Pendens on the doublewide

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Kappie I can give list of companies I have worked with in various businesses Sales Enginerring Tech Support and most of  CUSTOMER RELATIONS Between them and my company and btween me and my customers

RCA
Zenith
Texas Instruments and about 40 others... Any sucessful business works in a very personal and supportive way with their direct customers including seminars factory schools anything to give you an edge over your competition. Part of the support is weeding out fly by nighters or illegal competition This is done via certification or having the necessary criteria to use sell repar or promote their product..

This has to be one of the most idiotic and immature industries I have ever seen. If half of these rumors are true then I dont even want to sing in bars let alone try to maintain  a business in one.. I am done .....

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

I don't know Ollie.   Like you,  I've heard stories, read them, but personally know of nobody who's lost the shirt off of their back for this.  It seems reasonable that once in awhile a company would wish to publicly announce it's 0 tolerance for Copyright infringement.  To do-so, and give a real case would involve civil summons I suppose.  And I suppose when you think about it, we really don't want EVERYBODY believing pirating is "cool", or, it's acceptable because nobody can do anything about it, but realistically, how enforceable things are, dunno, everything usually ends up case by case (assuming it goes anyplace at all besides news). Again, I don't believe all I read, and I haven't read much tangibly in terms of settlements.  What ever came of that little girl that was sued for her Kazaa activity ?  Poor kid, but you have to realize it does scare many others..  Look at the discussions we have in here ?     It's not totally inaffective assuming somebody who really does pirate substantially gets summoned and called on it.

JMO..

I wouldn't want to believe we end up at a point where everybody and their little pirating brother believe it's OK to break laws..  While some laws might appear as frivolous, others DO serve a purpose.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The problem of there is little or no case law is simple.  No defendant has taken it that far for case law to be made.  I would suspect that as soon as a host is served papers to cease and desist, they stop using copies/computers.  Why?  As previously stated, lawyers are very expensive and appeals, if it ever get to the Supreme Court, are astronomical.  I doubt first that any host here could afford it or find an attorney to take the case "pro bono" and second a group like the ACLU or lawyers from that IT Justice site would take the case on "pro bono" (free).  One would think they would because they think they're right but I don't see anywhere where they would take the case without big bucks for their pockets.

Some laws take a long time to change.  You or I may not like it but that's life.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Nope,  There's nothing in it for an Atty,  Why would he take it Pro Bono, or on Contingency ?  If I am guilty of violating a law, do I really have a countersuit ?  I think not.   Atty's like cases where they can make A LOT of money, make legislative changes (assuming they are young have the time) but little money can be made either way. So agreed Tim.   The "They picked on me" hence discriminated against me out've millions of others won't make me much money if in fact I was guilty.. ..   I was playing on the golf course like an idiot during a storm,  and got struck by lightening..  It happens..   When people do something illegal, they take the chance of getting caught.  It's the way things should be.  As to severity of penalty, whole different story.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

There is a google trail of RIAA's suing fiasco and I have spent hours tracking and reading there are tons of negative and public reaction. They did nothing to deter downloading Any co like Sony thatbwere directly involved suffered in big lsses in regard to customer relations. In the meantime ipods cells and other new technololgies have evolved. cd's are a thing of the past I started off with 78 vinyls and have evolved thru every medium.. I am done with cd's and I wont spend anymore money on them. I might even put a still back in the wood shed. It is totally insane.

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

I have to admit Ollie,  for home and personal use ONLY, I don't like the fact that every time a new medium of playback comes about I can't format shift from 45------> reel to reel------> 8 track-------> standard Cassette------->CD---------> etc.


I really don't feel like I should have to run out and buy 9 copies of "If I were a Carpenter" in my lifetime so I can listen to a favorite song 80 times a day while yacking to friends on 100 MW talkie------>CB 4 watts------>SSB-----> CW------->CQ-DX-------->1-900--------->Computer...   or while I do the important things throughout my life.


Regarding what KJ's, DJ's and others do..  I keep my mouth shut, or at least I try  LMAO


Loads of changes over the past 40 years.  ALL of we kiddies used to copy friends tapes, tape CD's,  Record radio songs, exchange playback material, few days went by that we didn't do these things.. during college functions, and as HS, and College DJ's we never got licensing in the early 70's for our own material we brought to the station, I don't recall what (if anything) covered us in those days, not sure we needed coverage for vinyl, likely the station paid something in those days, I don't know.. I did get my radio transmitting licenses because I felt there was good reason to have them, and it was like a right of passage, took my CB test too to get my microphone when I outgrew the 100 MW talkies..  But DJ'ing High School gigs and being licensed, It was the LAST thing on my mind.  Things change, laws change..  Dunno what to think. For some of us there is more of a contrast.  For professionals, and those that do things commercially, it's best that there are certain codes of conduct IMHO...

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I've posted this before, and I'll say it again. If I invent a tool for a mechanic, he pays for my tool one time, and he can make all the money he wants using my creation, without ever paying me any royalties. I'm an artist too. Also, every composition, every melody is taken from the Great Masters......there hasn't been any original music in a hundred or more years. There is a defined number of ways you can arrange notes on a staff.......they are thieves themselves. Nike has taken the phrase "just do it" out of the English language.......my dad used to say that, and so did all dads..........what gives them the right to steal that from our forefathers......they left out the "or else" part though........ ......next thing you know, someone's gonna get a copyrite on breathing, and we'll have to pay royalties on that....

One of these days remind me to tell you about my songs, the ones that Zep, The Who, Skynyrd, and The Stones ripped off.


Yeah, this really was interesting
Chiffons sue Harrison on grounds of "Subconsciously accomplished".

I think this is from Harrisons book..
Some people, including the publisher of "He's So Fine," a number one song by The Chiffons, found what they thought was another inspiration for "My Sweet Lord." A lawsuit claiming George had plagiarized the song, written by the late Ronnie Mack, was filed.

Released in Dec. 1970, the three-record package All Things Must Pass included many songs written by George while he was still with the Beatles. Despite its three-record price tag, the 23-track All Things Must Pass was George's most successful album, settling in at #1 in the US for 7 weeks and remaining on the Billboard Hot 200 for 38 weeks. A re-recorded version of "My Sweet Lord," titled "My Sweet Lord (2000)," and four additional bonus tracks were included in a 30th anniversary reissue of All Things Must Pass, released by Capitol Records in Jan. 2001.
 
A story in the March 6, 1971, issue of Billboard stated that royalty payments to Harrison had been halted all over the world until settlement of the dispute. That didn't come until more than five years later, when United States District Court Judge Richard Owen ruled in New York that Harrison was guilty of copyright infringement. The judge conceded that Harrison did not deliberately plagiarize "He's So Fine."

"Nevertheless," Owen said, "it is clear that 'My Sweet Lord' is the very same song as 'He's So Fine.' Under the law, this is infringement of copyright, and is no less so even though it may have been subconsciously accomplished."

George discussed the lawsuit in I Me Mine: "I wasn't consciously aware of the similarity between 'He's So Fine' and 'My Sweet Lord' when I wrote the song as it was more improvised and not so fixed, although when my version of the song came out and started to get a lot of airplay people started talking about it and it was then I thought, 'Why didn't I realize?'. It would have been very easy to change a note here or there, and not affect the feeling of the record."

After Judge Owen's ruling, George wrote "This Song," in order "to exorcise the paranoia about songwriting that had started to build up in me," Harrison explains in I Me Mine. "I still don't understand how the courts aren't filled with similar cases -- as 99 percent of the popular music that can be heard is reminiscent of something or other."

Even after the case was settled, it wasn't over for George. Former Beatles manager Allen Klein purchased the publishing rights to "He's So Fine" and along with it, the right to continue to sue for damages. George summed up his feelings: "I even tried to give 'My Sweet Lord' away to get the thing settled -- just let 'em have it, it doesn't matter to me. I've never had any money from it -- it's always been in escrow -- and as far as I'm concerned the effect the song has had far exceeds any bitching that's been going on between copyright people; it's just greed and jealousy and all that."

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I just recalled,  when the radio stations in HS went to FM, we DID need to have a person in the station who had taken their FCC test, and was licensed even in 1972. The DJ's were told they needed to take their FCC exam, of course being a shortage of DJ's who would do this, corners were cut.  But the station did have a few scares in those days, and did keep heads up.. I don't recall before the shift to FM.  Nor do I know just what the station license included in those days, or what the Station manager needed to have..

Analog was never as strict, and after the Jukebox act, things started getting pretty tight.. Digital became very strict.  I wonder if I'm supposed to mail a nickel to anyone when I sit down at the piano these days  :shock:

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Right,  I wish "Triple Net" lease gains worked like this, and fairness WAS in fact regulated somehow, but it's not.  Not all are bound to reasonable contract.  Some people sign contracts that to me are ridiculously unfair and slanted towards the business owner, or in the case of a triple net lease, property owner,  Those leases REALLY irk me.  While I understand nobody holds a gun to a persons head to sign certain leases or contracts, I can tell you frankly,  when it comes to certain agreements my conscience doesn't keep me awake at night.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Folks,  do yourselves a favor and read this.  If nothing more it's interesting, and if we all have some concept of sources, and basic Copyright aspects, we can at least speak on a comparable level assuming people still feel compelled that they must speak about this stuff  LMAO.

Read number 2, and see how things just aren't so "cut and dry".
http://ipjustice.org/wp/2007/02/22/karaoke_legal_myths/

(Posted: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:58 PST in North America, Publications, copyright)


In fact, to dispel so many erroneous cut and dry discussions, get a load of this !

MYTH #4: A KJ must only use original CDG discs in commercial performances, never a copy.

TRUTH: There is no requirement that the original CDG disc must be used in a commercial performance by a KJ. Unless the KJ has waived his ordinary fair use rights to use a lawful CDG disc (by signing a contract), then he could expect to legally copy the files to his computer.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Also, if I remember correctly, a judge ruled that parodies were not the same song, and didn't compete in the same genre with the original versions. Different lyrics made it a different song.......this was ruled on more than once, and not really that long ago.....what you know/say bout dis, Kappy?

I say as little as possible Billy D.  It's my understanding that there is a huge section written on what constitutes "creative works", what conditions a parody CAN in fact be considered "Creative work", and similarly when it's "too close" to original work, etc. A parody (according to my understanding) can go either way.  As can a copyright, or tradmark,  take a look at Woody Guthries "Copyright" btw..

Although he has one, it reads something very close to

I wrote this song, and for the next 28 years it is mine.  Anyone found
playing it, or recording it is a gosh darn good friend cuz writing it's good
enough fo me !   (this isn't verbatim, but it's close)...

But a Parody in the case of whether or not it is considered "creative", or infringement ALSO is subject to sets of rules according to Copyright law, and the Fair Use act.. This is a HUGE area.  I had something I wanted to post regarding Creative, Educational, Library special rights, not for profit performance conditions, Amendment rights, etc.. But it's A LOT of reading  LOL

It's my understanding, that what can happen with Parody is a type of conflict because it's often considered, or intended to be First Amendment Expression. Hence, loopholes too.. Not easy, and subject to an area called "Parody Law". There are cases in case law regarding this area too.


Roy Orbeson vs Two Live crew "Oh Pretty Woman" case exists about this <G> mid-90's.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

first step to understanding

Do not confuse the original artists copyright with karaoke....

And read this until you understand it




If I was a cdg manu and wanted to eliminate piracy I would come up with an eqitable copy charge and format shift charge for legal KJ"S... Would it be that flippin hard?

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

AND,  Section 106 part 1 (meaning not 106A) must take into consideration sections 107 - 122  LOL

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

And I aint got no karaoke on a phonorecord  I quit!!!! I do notice Australia and New Zealand is addressing the media transformation problem.  Our guys are too bust pointing fingers and more worried about getting re-elected Thats all they have in mind is 08...

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!