Karaoke Forums

Well I am a little over 6 weeks into my new show and things are getting crazy. I have gone from a respectable 15-18 singer rotation to 25-30 singers. I start out by letting everyone sing 2 songs for the first hour or so, as there usually aren't more than a handful of singers to start.

Here is my question, are there any tactful ways of cutting from 2 songs to one song mid rotation?

OR, How do you keep 30 singers happy with a 45-60 minute (min) wait?

Sheesh, even Ericlater gave up on me and had to go to a differrent show to sing at because I couldn't get him into the rotation!

And as a side note... What are suggestions when you have non-singers complaining about the sound (Volume/EQ), but the singers are immensely happy? Keep in mind, the singers are transient (ie. only there on karaoke nights) and the non-singers tend to be friends of the bar owner (and regulars 3-5 nights a week)....

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

As for switching form 2 song to 1, just announce it, and do it.  But it should be done at the END of the rotation.  If you don't you are gonna get busted for playing favorites, even if you are not.

AS for keeping people happy.....
I would try to get a 2nd nite of karaoke added.  If you have increased businees on the karaoke nite, why not try to increase it another nite.  

As for trying to keep the NON-singers happy when concerned about volume and such, try to set up you speakers so there is an area where it is quieter.  I do this at bars when ever possible, some times it works, some times it dosen't.  But you are there to do karaoke, and more than likely the regulars will get over it.

Knowing the rotation is going to get that big, i'd not do the 2fers to start out.

30 singers 45-60 min?  Closer to 90-120 minute wait depending on the songs.  There isn't really much you can do if they are impatient, they have to wait their turn, you can let them know that it will be awhile.  Announce on occasion that there are a lot of singer, please be patients, etc....If someone really starts getting antsy, I may buy them a drink out of my pocket just to settle them down - this is rare though.

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Wow!  This subject has come up before about running a rotation and keeping all happy.  As said before, you can't keep everyone happy!!!
But we always made sure the bar owners were happy.  To do it simply~~~ we first of all would start out slow.  And it appeared that by 10:30 or so we would have 10 -15 singers. Early in the evening those singers arriving early sang quite frequently.  In a rotation!  As new singers came in we would add them to the rotation here and there.  But as the singers/drunks came in from patronizing other bars because drinks may have been cheaper after 11:00pm or later, we would start putting them at the end of the rotation.  Not to be ignorant, but to keep the faithful following happy and the bar owners.  These faithful followers would be back and come early because they new they would sing a lot.  Those that came so late and wanted to sing 2-3 or even 4 songs after arriving late did not have the right to take away from the singers there early, or the fact that they were not by that time spending enough money in that bar to make the owners happy.  We had many a discussion with owners that we were there to make them money.  And if one of those late singers complained and the owner questioned us, we would simply let them know that we are keeping their weekly crowd happy.  They understood that.  No more did they listen to the whiny drunks complaining because they didn't get to sing 2-3-4 songs within an hour of closing.  
A rotation is hard no matter what.  Trying to keep all happy.  But once you keep it regular, the regulars will catch on and they won't question why you did what you did.  They know or should know that ~~~ because you have a good repor with them.  A good Karaoke night would only allow them to sing 4-5 times all night.  If they have gotten to sings 2-3 times the first hour, they already have gotten to sing more than most.

Good Info !! We actually let new people sing their first song right after they put it in & THEN we put them at the end of the regular rotation so they at least get to sing one song. We are liking the idea you had about the late people wanting to sing 2-3-4- songs after being at another bar though. & Letting the bar owner in on why you do it this way too is probably a BIG help !

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

Late comers should know that they aren't going to get as many songs in as an early bird.  If they come in late they MAY get up 1 time if possible.  I try to work new people in as well, but sometimes new singers have to wait up to an hour at times depending on the amount of singers already there & how many new singers submit slips throughout the night.  Some nights work out very well, other nights people can get a little crabby.

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DBK,

I'm putting this on the forum, rather than in a PM because I think your show deserves recognition.  Robin and I didn't leave last Fri. to go elsewhere.  We came to your show because it is our preferred show for Friday nights.  However, we got there late and couldn't even find a seat.  We DID NOT GO ELSEWHERE, we went home when we left you.  And we left, primarilly, because you didn't need our support!

I think the more experienced contributors have adequately responded to your rotation questions.  So, I have nothing to add in that regard.

Congratulations on a well-run show that we truly enjoy.  Also, Robin now understands from your show why I want us to get a headset for our (eventual) show, having seen how you use yours.

Drop the two-fers. Only creates uneeded conflict.  Bring one-sing one is the best way regardless of crowd size.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Definitely drop the 2 songs - Just run a straight rotation (Bring one sing one)  is a great way to go.  If the rotation is small - the "early birds" and dedicated followers will automatically sing twice as much. ( just not back to back) - Keep some sort of rotation list or board that is accessible to the singers. I think it helps the wait if they can see where they are. (just don't deviate from it or else you'd be in big trouble)
 :( .

Chances are the NON singers are not  happy with the overall MIX between singer and music.  Karaoke shows tend to have the SINGERS volume way out front of the background tracks.  (singers want to be heard!!!)  Try cutting back on the singers volume and have more of a (studio type mix) a pleasant balance between vocals and music.  If you ever listen to a cd - the vocals are there but not OUT THERE like in many Karaoke shows including my own.  Many times when I sing a sing as the host people don't even know I'm singing unless they turn around and look. Thats when I now I have a good mix. Unfortunately the SINGERS always insist I turn them UP so they can be heard .......   MAKE SENSE ?  anyone agree?

Jamkaraoke,

It seems to make a great deal of sense.  Therefore, wouldn't you, if possible, always want to have the speakers out in front of the singer and use a monitor to lead the singer into believing that he/she is louder than he/she actually is?

I have a regular Thursday night gig here. I have several regulars that are there at start time every week. I start out with 2 songs per person. As people start filtering in after dart and volleyball I add them to the rotation. If the rotation starts getting to big I cut back to one song per person. As the people come up to sing I explain to each one I am cutting back to one song, boy we have a lot of singers tonight. I have not had many complaint, but when I do (usually from a drunk), I explain that if they come earlier they will get more songs in .
My regulars now know that I am going to cut down to one song when it gets busy, but i still always explain it to them. Just as an FYI.
Continued success!!

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It's always time to sing!

Actually, it was more than just a comment by a non singing patron. He told me I had the WORST sound of any KJ that had been there in 10 years, and asked if I got my equip in Wal Mart. He proceeded to tell me the treble killed him and I had so much echo on that he couldn't understand a word I was saying. He then went on to pull one of my 'flakier' singers aside and tell her what he thought. Naturally the next time she came up, all I heard was "Why does this sound distorted?", "Can you lower my echo?", "There's something not right but I don't know how to verbalize it...".

The funny thing is, this bar is divided in 2 sections. If you sit on the side by the pool tables and dart boards, you can't hear anything. So that means this guy intentionally sits where he can hear, just to complain and rile people. My only concern is if he goes to the owner, who has already told me he had complaints about the volume level (I have my guess who it was from).

And Eric, I only assumed you went to another show. I know you like singing, and I am flatterred you did not go elsewhere.

As for starting out at 1 instead of 2......I may have to try that once I use up these 500 slips I made with 2 slots on them....

Thanks for the advice so far guys, keep it coming!

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

OK i am getting the feeling that this is a "regular" to this bar, but not a karaoke fan.
I have had this problem. On top of that the owner of the bar is NOT a fan of karaoke . This makes for a difficult situation especially when it is all new. It sounds to me like your karaoke night is really taking off. As long as the majority of people who are coming to your show are happy and the bar is making money, 1 complaint even from a regular costumer, shouldn't hurt you with the bar owner. If you feel like it will you can always talk to the barowner about it. 1 regular costumer cannot make up for a barfull on karaoke night...
I had a guy who complained all the time. he is a regular at the bar and a friend of the owner. One night he went so far as to take my microphone and tell the bar how badly I sucked. He waited for the owner to return from darts and compolained for over an hour. Man was I nervous.Although I have been doing this same place for almost 2 years now at the time I was new. Taking over for another KJ who had to quit. I explained to the owner how I did things and asked him to please ask the others if they had any complaints as I hadn't heard any. I also explained that if there were some complaints I would gladly try to change those thing if I could. 3 weeks later the guy apologized.
The owner knows that if I am not there these singers will go down the road to sing, his bar will be empty.
If the owner doesn't stay around for your show you could always invite him to sit in and see what he thinks. It sounds to me like you have a quality show, and once he sees what you do it will be OK.

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It's always time to sing!

Here's my opinions:



Definately drop the 2 songs per singer thing. The biggest reason is that if someone that usually isn't an early bird comes in early one day to sing, and has to wait LONGER because you let everyone sing two songs, then he isn't going to be coming early again. If you stick to the 1 song per person per rotation rule, then those peeps that usually get to sing twice are still going to get to sing the EXACT same number of songs while it is slow, just not all at once. They'll get 2 songs in two rotations instead of 2 songs in one rotation. Plus, non-singers would certainly perfer variety over hearing the same people twice in a row!!



If you feel that you just HAVE to do this, then let everyone know that this only lasts for the first HOUR of your show. If you start at 9:00, then at EXACTLY 10:00, the singers no longer get two in a row. Print this rule in your books. The key to any controversial ruling like this is to be utterly and unequivically CONSISTENT.



I have the same situation, and I still (despite many differing opionions) think that the best way to deal with a long long rotation is to do extra to keep everyone entertained even when they are not singing. For me, that is playing the hottest dance songs as filler music. I play for a younger audience, so this keeps the energy high and everyone happy no matter how long they have to wait, primarily because it makes the ladies dance and the fellas are happy to watch the ladies dance!! And I don't mean whipping out long dance sets. I only play about 25-30 seconds of the song, but always make sure it at least gets through the first hook or chorus before I start the next singer. I also sub for a guy from time to time in a bar with an older crowd, and use the same philosophy but play upbeat classic rock and country instead, and the old folks dance and are entertained ALL night. You just have to face the fact that about 75% of the people in your audience, singers and non-singers, really just don't care about listening to other people sing. They just want to hear themselves, friends, and that one out of 100 person that is actually very talented. So, they need to be entertained in another way OTHER than just karaoke.



You may just be getting this because you are new. The last thing regulars at a bar like is change, so if you are changing their environment by playing the music a little louder or differently than the last guy, they are going to (@$%&#!). But they'll get used to it. The room I play in is a large square room (6,000 SF), with the bar to the left wall, pool tables/dart boards to the right wall, and two columns of 12 table each down the middle. I point my right speaker straight toward the back wall, but point my left speaker about 45 degrees away from the back wall to the right toward the pool table in the far back right corner. This does two good things. First, it decreases the volume about 30% to the people sitting at the bar. And where do the barfly regulars sit? At the bar!! Plus it makes the bartenders much happier because they can hear the customers better. Second, it creates a sound field in the pool table area that isn't there if I just point the speakers forward. Again, they only get about 70% of the volume that the main seats get, so like the people at the bar they can hear the music, but can still talk at a reasonable volume and hear each other, so they can choose how involved in the karaoke show and dance music they want to be or don't want to be. The people in the seats in front of me have no choice, they are mine!! If you do do this, make sure your speakers are in MONO instead of STEREO, or else you are going to have some wacky spacial effects bouncing around the room and certain areas are not going to be able to hear the full sound!!

Hope some of that is practical for you!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Definately is Chris. Especially the 1 hour rule- I think I will try it this Friday night.

Karaoke is not new to this bar. They have had it for 10-12 years on Friday and Saturday nights. They use 2 differrent companies for the 2 nights, as the owner believes it provides a variety of customers.

I was wondering if the fact I have the speakers at a certain height on the poles make a differrence? Like if I raise them higher (if my back doesn't revolt), or put them lower, would it signicantly change the sound in the room?

As I am the 'new guy' there I am still nervous of a itchy trigger finger on the owner (as he has gone thru quite a few hosts in the last few years).

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Ericlater
I agree an ideal set up would be speakers out front and a monitor for the singers.
For me personally limited space and a pool table do not allow me to have either a monitor or speakers out front.  But I can understand some NON SINGERS or SINGERS for that matter who would complain if the main mix between vocals and music were unbalanced.   Then again the non singers who are complaining in the original post could be there just for some conversation and live music at bars is not very conducive for conversation.

Continuous adjustment of the mix whether it is EQ, Volume or effects is what seperates PRO'S FROM HACKS

(i just wanted to use  the word HACK haven't seen it in awhile)  LOL  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Which is another point in favor of a monitor, you can individualize the singers mix to push more vocals for them without screwing up the mix the audience hears with overpowering vocals.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Them little Galaxy Hot Spots mount on a mic stand & will do the trick in limited space situations.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonman and others please help me out here.

Where Dave has to set up is so cramped, that he has about eight feet between speakers.  The room is about 60-70 feet long.  While I don't think he really needs both speakers, he should set-up both for appearances.  What do you think about him running the sound, as suggested, in mono and turning one of those speaker down (real low) or never "turning it on"?

I don't know what a Galaxy Hot Spot is, but I want one.

Dave, don't wait unitl the slips are gone to change to one song , and don't throw them away, either.  When you need to switch to one song per, if a singer has given you a slip with 2 songs explain that the rotation now is accommodating only one song.  Then ask which one they want to do first and offer to hold the slip (second song) for their next turn.

I do believe it is beneficial to a show when singers know that those who come early will get a chance to sing two songs.  And perhaps offering two songs for the first half-hour is enough, but not more than for the first hour.

Ive noticed that at our show too its very hard to mix & be "heard" without having the music level adjusted to the singer no matter how loud or quiet they sing,thus sometimes getting the music too loud for some people around the speakers . We have tried monitors on the floor to the side of the singers (one on each side) and we get terrible feedback should we put them on stands or something to keep that from happening ?

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]