Karaoke Forums

btw Charmin,  Here's a brief idea I got,  haven't really mulled it over yet.  The best way to bring change about (assuming change is going to be made) is in numbers in a setting like SS...  IE..

You and I recently critiqued an individual who specified "please critique me honestly and constructively, this is how I learn".  Now we both trust that this individual means this, and will take our Critiques as they were intended to help HIM...

What if Karaoke Scene were to form a group of about 6+ members who form a pact with one-another to strongly support one-another in preserving a C process AS LONG as all feel the others in the Critiquing group have been fair ? (Whether we like the individual giving the critique or not SHOULD be moot in our support of the process and him) What this means is assuming a person gets bashed for fair Critique in SS (in the eyes of this agreeing group) the group sticks together and staunchly tells the person who CAN'T handle a Critique.   My feeling is that when a few got bashed for giving fair Critique something similar to the below sentences. The fact that there've been problems with this process is ALSO the fault of others not coming to the defense and preserving a process that was getting snuffed and blatantly rejected. NOT just that one person who got attacked for offering a Critique where requested.

Other's could have appropriately intervened with something similar to this
"Don't sub in C if you don't want C"..  The intent was to fulfill YOUR request and perceived desire for C... Not  to give you something you do not want"

I believe that AS LONG as all in a Critique group Critique individually, WITHOUT agreeing or disagreeing (with past Critiques given displaying ANY type of "I agree with So and So's Critique" within the body of their Critique) this can work. If Critiques happen to overlap unintentially sobeit,  that means they are likely pretty accurate assessments.. But  ALL critiques given must be totally original, not prompted by others Critiques (in order to help). Often the Critiquing person will NOT want to read past Critiques prior to submitting their own Critique.  Critique should not be a continuation of another persons "Critique" in the same site.. Critiquing should show individuality, and not "cliquish" behaviour...

I think if the intent is to HELP another, and this is agreed upon by a group, numbers sticking up for the Critiquing process might be a way to go about change in an otherwise resistant enviroment.

My feeling is that when a few got bashed for giving fair Critique, it was ALSO the fault of others for not coming to their defense and preserving the process that was getting snuffed and blatantly rejected. NOT just that one person.

(This might be tough to do,  if it doesn't work, at least a few have tried)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Good heavens..... I saw this, read it, went browsing around.... then couldn't find it again.  LOL I had to click your profile to find it. (so, don't think I'm stalking, )

Yes, I saw you posted there after me. I came on this morning to see if the singer had responded. He hasn't yet, but I do recall listening to him alot when he was a regular here. I think he's the type of person to take it well.

I felt comfie giving him my honest opinion. He's got a heck of a good voice, he's a great singer (IMO)... and he's got that to work with. He picked, what I think, is a bit of a difficult song. But it's not a "hopeless" song for him, not by any means. He just needs more practicing & some polishing on it I think. So I told him what I honestly thought. Him being of the "old SS"... when critiques were given and taken better I believe... I 100% do NOT expect to get bashed by him.

To be honest, if he were a horrid singer, or I honestly thought he didn't have a chance of getting a decent version of that song, I would have had trouble with trying to be honest.

THAT is where the problem lies. The good singers who generally do a good job, that sub the once in a while song that needs work, or who have minor mistakes here & there... would be easy to critique. Does that make sense? You'd feel better pointing out flaws to someone who has the ability to correct & improve it? (something to work with)

There ARE singers in there, whom I have never heard do a good (even average) job once. Yet some of those sub for C, on a regular basis... and have always gotten shining comments, and decent ranks. Suppose you go on one of those subs? What to say? I mean, it could get a bit American-Idolish.... don't you think?

I admit, it DID lessen the feeling of "going out on a limb to critique honestly" by NOT being the only one to critique a sub. I know you, and I trust that you gave your honest review of that song... yet, I think for the most part we agreed on our listen.

What you're suggesting... COULD very well help change things for the better. That's what I was pointing out yesterday, SOMEbody has to get the ball rolling. 5-6 people all making a commitment to "critique honestly".... would be much better than one sole person doing it alone.  As long as, yes, those people have proven that they can be trusted to be honest & fair, and they don't have a proven "enemy" here that they go critique. I mean.... no "brand new" people waltzing in to join the force, nobody that has had a major fued with. And... in my opinion, if the critiquer is also a person who subs, they SHOULD sub for C as well. One of the main reasons I don't normally do anything other than a general comment... is because people can't feel free to be honest back to ME... I sub JFF only. And that's not fair. (or, some may not see it that way)

And, *added in as an afterthought*... all the better if all of the critiquers did NOT see exactly eye to eye on certain songs. We all hear differently. I mean, as far as "pitch", yeah... that would be an area most would agree on. But different aspects of the song, if all don't agree... that would be okay. How nice it WOULD be if you could NOT read other's comments prior to posting your own. You know... you have to post a comment... and THEN after posting it, you could see everyone else's? That would keep it a bit more honest, you agree?

But yeah, if a group would say "okay, I'm commited to being honest and giving fair feedback, come hell or high water"... maybe. ??????

Guess it would have to be tested & tried.

.

I've never seen him before, and I went in cold taking the chance one usually takes when leaving Critique.  ONLY buffer is,  I left it after you  LOL, so I assumed if he can't take it, we BOTH go down !!!  


Seriously tho...   My feeling is that WE shouldn't have to be the ones that have to worry much about "sugar coating" constructive comments..  It becomes a concern when a site requires the people Critiquing have a degree in psychology, have read all updates on standard Politically correct Speak, and take 4 dry runs with family members prior to "trying it out" on a real live singer..  It becomes TOO much effort.

JMO..

While I know it's not an easy process, I would *as would others* feel much more comfortable if a foundation of sorts was layed down ENABLING Critiquers to not feel as though they are impinging before they even attempt to help.  SUch a foundation MIGHT be as simple as backing of those that wish for the process to work.  PROBLEM is, this will mean straying from political alliances, cliques, etc.  I'm concerned that THOSE are the issues that make this extremely tough !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yes, I agree. If those "guidelines" for C subs were laid out, (they were talking about this elsewhere, I don't recall who first brought it up) where you had specific points to elaborate on.... It would be like a listening test...  you'd just be "answering questions"... but, within those answer would be... your honest critique of the song.

WHERE is P.hill..... and WHEN are these changes gonna happen... and WHAT are the changes gonna be?  LOL

.

Since I don't sub in SS I don't know what it looks like for a person who submits a song PRIOR to entering "C", but I stated ages ago, and assumed there was a VERY concise definition of WHAT "C" means..  If not,  THAT is something that SHOULD'VE been implemented (IMHO) ages ago... You CAN NOT have an ambiguous Critique category that leaves room for Camouflaged bashing and fluff alike because few handle grey,  so many see things in all or none terms when something is quite a real issue and ego is involved... Artists DO have ego's... we all do !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, just go log into SS, and click the "submit" button.... it'll show you exactly what is seen when you sub. At that point, you don't have to be actually subbing, it'll just show you what's there..... and that's it. That's the only screen you get, once you click submit, the song loads and it flips to the latest subs page with your song up top. So, you can see what we see when we sub...

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Steven, I gotta log off...... I woke up with one of my dang migraines, and besides that, I have TONS of stuff to do around the house. Packing to move again, and it's driving me insane. But I gotta take a couple Tylenol and a nap first:)

So, don't think I'm ingoring, I WILL be back to follow up this thread when I get the chance.

Later....  :wave:


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Thanks,  heading to SS now.... I can imagine what will happen,  I'll hit the submit button, and a duck will drop down from the ceiling, sirens will go off... and voices will yell...

"GO AHEAD,  make our day sucker...  ARE YOU SURE you want to make this big an @&& out've yourself?"


(taking deep breaths and preparing)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I CAN'T DO IT  



Click the submit button that is !   Don't think like  pervs !!!




(It doesn't work, In order for me to designate a category to submit under I'm required to UL a file.  Once I do that,  it's CURTAINS !!!!!)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

ya know what, I believe that is the crux, I personally would prefer to be critiqued seriously who didnt sub. But unless Kappy is gonna be busy from daylite to dark, its an unrealistic expectation.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

nope you can cancel out...just go thru the motions and then exit out before submitting

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

That's the thing Vicki.  I'll burn out critiquing, as would anybody if the ball is dropped in their lap,  It's not easy, it takes time too.  Same thing goes if attempts to Critique become repeatedly tougher than they should be over in SS... While we all can handle a few negative blows, we have our limits and other real controversial stuff in our real lives that make handling more than a minute quantity of negative stuff tough to take in a site intended to be fun and a repreive from such probs.  This is a fun escape for me.  I don't want to get beat up in here, or fight, etc..  That's counterproductive.. Still though, because Critique where wanted CAN be such a beneficial thing FOR an aspiring singer, I think it's really ashame that the actual process has taken on such a stigma.

JMO


As I have perceived this all along it comes down to one thing only.  Maturity, which means owning up to ones choices and accepting ramifications and benefits of our own actions.  And, to be honest, if there's ONE thing that ticks me off it's just that.  The site works,  Immaturity is the problem IMO... Not saying maturity is easy, or ANY of us can be mature ALL the time...

When you sub for Critique, don't bite when a person accomodates your wishes

Plain and simple.... People should think first...then sub accordingly.



(OK.  I think this is the site I intended in adding this too.... Dang,  wish the ativan would kick in...  There's noise in the Belfry tower and I can't think straight.)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

cant have you burning out Kappy. Perhaps you might like to co-opt Listener X

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Testing..... Cause I can't figure it out:(

(nevermind... this is a test, repeat, this is ONLY a test)

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

It's working:) hahaha


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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

bruddy brilliant meez Charmin

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Ya like the one I made? haha

I couldn't get the cute RED boots that I wanted, cause you have to PAY for them.... crazy people.

I couldn't resist the Banjo though:) I love it.

Tho I wish the "Meez.com" didn't HAVE to be on there:(

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

you have the option of downloading to your computer...take the meez.com thing out with photoshop then post the thing on photobucket that should get round it

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

or send here I will do it and send back to ya

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I don't have photoshop:(  The program I DO have... would stop the animation when I resave it.

Okay, I'll send to you.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥