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Texas Gigi
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 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:42 pm |
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knightshow @ Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:44 pm wrote: yeah... and it's those same bars that BLAME karaoke for the downward spiral.
I mean, they're the ones opting to go the kmart way rather than the ritsy way, THINKING it's all the same...
sheesh! Anybody that can't tell the difference between a quality show and one that's in bigdog's words a hack... almost deserves it!
Amen, bro!
A dance number or contest at a quality show can enhance it; when it is done by a hack it reeks of desperation sometimes.
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twansenne
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:56 pm |
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Just working on my post count, thought this would be a good thread to mung up.
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Texas Gigi
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:57 pm |
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twansenne @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:56 am wrote: Just working on my post count, thought this would be a good thread to mung up.
 isn't that the forum-thread equivalent of a dance number? :wave:
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twansenne
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:57 pm |
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twansenne @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:56 am wrote: Just working on my post count, thought this would be a good thread to mung up.
Oh yeah, anyone use a tanning bed? I hear that if you tan and sing karaoke at the same time, it make the experince go much faster. Perhaps one of the cheap KJs could get a job at tanning salons(sp?)?
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twansenne
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:38 pm |
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Bigdog @ Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:02 am wrote: Go with the flow... Well, it all depends on what hemisphere you are in. In the Norhtern it goes Clockwise, in the Southern, it goes Counter-Clockwise. OR..... Quote: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing, characterized by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity. Proposed by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, the concept has been widely referenced across a variety of fields.
Contents [hide]
1 Components of flow
2 Etymology
3 Group flow
4 Applications
4.1 Applications suggested by Csikszentmihalyi versus other practitioners
4.2 Religion and spirituality
4.3 Education
4.4 Sports
5 See also
6 External links
7 References
[edit] Components of flow
As Csikszentmihalyi sees it, components of an experience of flow can be specifically enumerated; he presents eight:
Clear goals (expectations and rules are discernible).
Concentrating and focusing, a high degree of concentration on a limited field of attention (a person engaged in the activity will have the opportunity to focus and to delve deeply into it).
A loss of the feeling of self-consciousness, the merging of action and awareness.
Distorted sense of time - one's subjective experience of time is altered.
Direct and immediate feedback (successes and failures in the course of the activity are apparent, so that behavior can be adjusted as needed).
Balance between ability level and challenge (the activity is neither too easy nor too difficult).
A sense of personal control over the situation or activity.
The activity is intrinsically rewarding, so there is an effortlessness of action.
When in the flow state, people become absorbed in their activity, and focus of awareness is narrowed down to the activity itself, action awareness merging (Csikszentmihalyi, 1975. p.72).
Not all are needed for flow to be experienced.
[edit] Etymology
Flow is so named because during Csikszentmihalyi's 1975 interviews several people described their 'flow' experiences using the metaphor of a current carrying them along. The psychological concept of flow as becoming absorbed in an activity is thus unrelated to the older phrase "to go with the flow" which means "to conform".
[edit] Group flow
Csikszentmihalyi suggests several ways in which a group could work together so that each individual member could achieve flow. The characteristics of such a group include:
Creative spatial arrangements: Chairs, pin walls, charts, however no tables, therefore primarily work in standing and moving.
Playground design : Charts for information inputs, flow graphs, project summary, craziness (here also craziness has a place), safe place (here all may say what is otherwise only thought), result wall, open topics
Parallel, organized working
Target group focus
Advancement of existing one (prototyping)
Increase in efficiency through visualization
Existence of differences among participants represents an opportunity, rather than an obstacle.
[edit] Applications
[edit] Applications suggested by Csikszentmihalyi versus other practitioners
It is worth noting that only Csikszentmihalyi seems to have published suggestions for extrinsic applications of the Flow concept, such as design methods for playgrounds to elicit the Flow experience. Other practitioners of Csikszentmihalyi's Flow concept focus on intrinsic applications, such as spirituality, performance improvement or self-help. Reinterpretations of Csikszentmihalyi's Flow process exist to improve performance in areas as diverse as business [1], sport psychology [2], and standup comedy [3].
[edit] Religion and spirituality
Csikszentmihalyi may have been the first to describe this concept in Western psychology, but as he himself readily acknowledges he was most certainly not the first to quantify the concept of Flow or develop applications based on the concept.
For millennia, practitioners of Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Taoism have honed the discipline of overcoming the duality of self and object as a central feature of spiritual development. Eastern spiritual practitioners have developed a very thorough and holistic set of theories around overcoming duality of self and object, tested and refined through spiritual practice instead of the systematic rigor and controls of modern science.
The phrase "being at one with things" is a metaphor of Csikszentmihalyi's Flow concept. Zen Buddhist practitioners apply concepts similar to Flow to aid their mastery of art forms, including Kendo and Ikebana.
The idea of overcoming duality of self and object is a key theme of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values by Robert Pirsig (1974). "When you're not dominated by feelings of separateness from what you're working on, then you can be said to 'care' about what you're doing. That is what caring really is: 'a feeling of identification with what one's doing.' When one has this feeling then you also see the inverse side of caring, quality itself." (page 290)
[edit] Education
In education, there is the concept of overlearning which seems to be an important factor in this technique, in that Csikszentmihalyi states in his book Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience that overlearning enables the mind to concentrate on visualizing the desired performance as a singular, integrated action instead of a set of actions.
[edit] Sports
The concept of "being in the zone" during an athletic performance fits within Csikszentmihalyi's description of the Flow experience, and theories and applications of "being in the zone" and its relationship with athletic competitive advantage are topics studied in the field of sport psychology.
[edit] See also
Creativity
Spirituality
Imagination
Hyperfocus
Positive psychology
[edit] External links
Flow Resources Designed to promote understanding of flow experiences in sport and other physical activity or performance domains.
flOw A flash based implementation of flow theory and immersion in a game format
FlowTheory.com An MSc dissertation exploring the importance of website usability from a business perspective; contains a section on flow
Of Fun and Flow Playologist Bernie DeKoven on flow in games
Running In The Zone : a personal account
Solving Procrastination an application of Flow by Kevin Chiu
Psychology-Flow a Google Group devoted to Flow
Sports-Psychology An independent film exploring "flow state" through the eyes of a freediving athlete attempting to break the world depth record.
[edit] References
Csikszentmihalyi, Mihaly (1990). Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience. New York: Harper and Row. ISBN 0-06-092043-2
Csikszentmihalyi, Mihaly (1996). Creativity: Flow and the Psychology of Discovery and Invention. New York: Harper Perennial. ISBN 0-06-092820-4
Csikszentmihalyi, Mihaly (1998). Finding Flow: The Psychology of Engagement With Everyday Life. Basic Books. ISBN 0-465-02411-4 (a popular exposition emphasizing technique)
Csikszentmihalyi, Mihaly (2003). Good Business: Leadership, Flow, and the Making of Meaning. New York: Penguin Books. ISBN 0-14-200409-X
Langer, Ellen J. (1989). Mindfulness. Reading, Mass: Addison Wesley. ISBN 0-201-52341-8
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twansenne
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:51 pm |
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Bigdog @ Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:20 am wrote: Star date sometime in 2008:
Scientists today dug up the remains of what appears to be a "KJ". An autopsy will be preformed on the remains to determine the cause of death. Carbon dating will be done to see if they can tell when karaoke died. Carbon dating will not be effective in dating the death of the KJ. Your situation takes place in 2008, and right now it is 2007, that is only about 2 years at maxium. Perhaps some info on carbon dating will help.... Quote: Radiocarbon dating
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.
Radiocarbon dating is a radiometric dating method that uses the naturally occurring isotope carbon-14 to determine the age of carbonaceous materials up to about 60,000 years. Raw, i.e. uncalibrated, radiocarbon ages are usually reported in radiocarbon years "Before Present" (BP), "Present" being defined as AD 1950. Such raw ages can be calibrated to give calendar dates.
The technique of radiocarbon dating was discovered by Willard Frank Libby and his colleagues in 1949 during his tenure as a professor at the University of Chicago. Libby estimated that the steady state radioactivity concentration of exchangeable carbon-14 would be about 14 disintegrations per minute (dpm) per gram carbon (ca 230 mBq/g). In 1960, Libby was awarded the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his method to use carbon-14 (14C) for age determination.
Contents [hide]
1 Furthering the technique and applications
2 Basic chemistry
3 Measurements and scales
4 Calibration
4.1 The need for calibration
4.2 Calibration methods
5 Radiocarbon half-life
5.1 Libby vs Cambridge values
6 Examples
7 See also
8 Notes
8.1 Computations of ages and dates
9 Speleothem studies in the Bahamas extend C14 calibration
10 References
11 External links
[edit] Furthering the technique and applications
Hessel de Vries, at the University of Groningen furthered the detection methods and applications to a variety of sciences. He has been called "the unsung hero of radiocarbon dating" (cf Willis).
[edit] Basic chemistry
Carbon has two stable, nonradioactive isotopes: carbon-12 (12C), and carbon-13 (13C). In addition, there are tiny amounts of the unstable isotope carbon-14 (14C) on Earth. Carbon-14 has a half-life of 5730 years and would have long ago vanished from Earth were it not for the unremitting cosmic ray impacts on nitrogen in the Earth's atmosphere, which forms more of the isotope. (In fact the same process occurs in the nitrogen-rich atmosphere of Saturn's moon Titan.) When cosmic rays enter the atmosphere, they undergo various transformations, including the production of neutrons. The resulting neutrons participate in the following reaction on one of the N atoms being knocked out of a nitrogen (N2) molecule in the atmosphere:
1n + 14N → 14C + 1p
Atmospheric 14C, New Zealand[1] and Austria[2]. The New Zealand curve is representative for the Southern Hemisphere, the Austrian curve is representative for the Northern Hemisphere. Atmospheric nuclear weapon tests almost doubled the concentration of 14C in the Northern Hemisphere [3].The highest rate of carbon-14 production takes place at altitudes of 9 to 15 km (30,000 to 50,000 ft), and at high geomagnetic latitudes, but the carbon-14 spreads evenly throughout the atmosphere and reacts with oxygen to form carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide also permeates the oceans, dissolving in the water. For approximate analysis it is assumed that the cosmic ray flux is constant over long periods of time; thus carbon-14 could be assumed to be continuously produced at a constant rate and therefore that the proportion of radioactive to non-radioactive carbon throughout the Earth's atmosphere and surface oceans is constant: ca. 1 part per trillion (600 billion atoms/mole). For more accurate work, the temporal variations of the atmospheric radiocarbon are compensated for by means of calibration curves. When these curves are used, their accuracy and shape are the factors that determine the accuracy and age obtained for a given sample.
Plants take up atmospheric carbon dioxide by photosynthesis, and are eaten by animals, so every living thing is constantly exchanging carbon-14 with its environment as long as it lives. Once it dies, however, this exchange stops, and the amount of carbon-14 gradually decreases through radioactive decay.
14C → 14N + 0β
By emitting a β particle (beta decay), carbon-14 is changed into stable (non-radioactive) nitrogen-14. This decay can be used to get a measure of how long ago a piece of once-living material died. However, aquatic plants obtain some of their carbon from dissolved carbonates which are likely to be very old, and thus deficient in the carbon-14 isotope, so the method is less reliable for such materials as well as for samples derived from animals with such plants in their food chain.
[edit] Measurements and scales
Measurements are traditionally made by counting the radioactive decay of individual carbon atoms by gas proportional counting or by liquid scintillation counting, but these are relatively insensitive and subject to relatively large statistical uncertainties for small samples (below about 1g carbon). If there is little carbon-14 to begin with, a half-life that long means that very few of the atoms will decay while their detection is attempted (4 atoms/s) /mol just after death, hence e.g. 1 (atom/s)/mol after 10,000 years). Sensitivity has since been greatly increased by the use of accelerator-based mass-spectrometric (AMS) techniques, where all the 14C atoms can be counted directly, rather than only those decaying during the counting interval allotted for each analysis. The AMS technique allows one to date samples containing only a few milligrams of carbon.
Raw radiocarbon ages (i.e., those not calibrated) are usually reported in years "before present" (BP). This is the number of radiocarbon years before 1950, based on a nominal (and assumed constant - see "calibration" below) level of carbon-14 in the atmosphere equal to the 1950 level. They are also based on a slightly off historic value for the half-life maintained for consistency with older publications (see "Radiocarbon half-life" below). See the Note below for the basis of the computations. Corrections for isotopic fractionation have not been included in the present note.
Radiocarbon labs generally report an uncertainty, e.g., 3000±30BP indicates a standard deviation of 30 radiocarbon years. Traditionally this includes only the statistical counting uncertainty and some labs supply an "error multiplier" that can be multiplied by the uncertainty to account for other sources of error in the measuring process. Additional error is likely to arise from the nature and collection of the sample itself, e.g., a tree may accumulate carbon over a significant period of time. Such old wood, turned into an artifact some time after the death of the tree, will reflect the date of the carbon in the wood.
The current maximum radiocarbon age limit lies in the range between 58,000 and 62,000 years. This limit is encountered when the radioactivity of the residual 14C in a sample is too low to be distinguished from the background radiation.
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twansenne
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:52 pm |
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and to continue on.....
Quote: [edit] Calibration [edit] The need for calibration Calibration curve for the radiocarbon dating scale. Data sources: Stuiver et al.[4]. Samples with a real date more recent than AD 1950 are dated and/or tracked using the N- & S-Hemisphere graphs. See preceding figure.A raw BP date cannot be used directly as a calendar date, because the level of atmospheric 14C has not been strictly constant during the span of time that can be radiocarbon dated. The level is affected by variations in the cosmic ray intensity which is affected by variations caused by solar storms. In addition there are substantial reservoirs of carbon in organic matter, the ocean, ocean sediments (see methane hydrate), and sedimentary rocks. Changing climate can sometimes disrupt the carbon flow between these reservoirs and the atmosphere. The level has also been affected by human activities—it was almost doubled for a short period due to atomic bomb tests in the 1950s and 1960s and has been reduced by the release of large amounts of CO2 from ancient organic sources where 14C is not present—the fossil fuels used in industry and transportation, known as the Suess effect. [edit] Calibration methods The raw radiocarbon dates, in BP years, are therefore calibrated to give calendar dates. Standard calibration curves are available, based on comparison of radiocarbon dates of samples that can be independently dated by other methods such as examination of tree growth rings (dendrochronology), ice cores, deep ocean sediment cores, lake sediment varves, coral samples, and speleothems (cave deposits). The calibration curves can vary significantly from a straight line, so comparison of uncalibrated radiocarbon dates (e.g., plotting them on a graph or subtracting dates to give elapsed time) is likely to give misleading results. There are also significant plateaus in the curves, such as the one from 11,000 to 10,000 radiocarbon years BP, which is believed to be associated with changing ocean circulation during the Younger Dryas period. The accuracy of radiocarbon dating is lower for samples originating from such plateau periods. It has been noted that the plateau itself can be used as a time marker when it appears in a time series. [edit] Radiocarbon half-life [edit] Libby vs Cambridge values Carbon dating was developed by a team led by Willard Libby. Originally a carbon-14 half-life of 5568±30 years was used, which is now known as the Libby half-life. Later a more accurate figure of 5730±40 years was determined, which is known as the Cambridge half-life. However laboratories continue to use the Libby figure to avoid inconsistencies when comparing raw dates and when using calibration curves to obtain calendrical dates. [edit] Examples Acahualinca footprints Haraldskær Woman Kennewick Man Skeleton Lake Shroud of Turin Thera eruption Vinland map [edit] See also Absolute dating Cosmogenic isotopes Environmental isotopes Radiometric dating Relative dating Discussion of half-life and average-life or mean-lifetime [edit] Notes [edit] Computations of ages and dates The radioactive decay of carbon-14 follows an exponential decay. A quantity is said to be subject to exponential decay if it decreases at a rate proportional to its value. Symbolically, this can be expressed as the following differential equation, where N is the quantity and λ is a positive number called the decay constant: The solution to this equation is: , where, for a given sample of carbonaceous matter: N0 = number of radiocarbon atoms at t = 0, i.e. the origin of the disintegration time, N = number of radiocarbon atoms remaining after radioactive decay during the time t, λ = radiocarbon decay or disintegration constant. Two related times can be defined: mean- or average-life: mean or average time each radiocarbon atom spends in a given sample until it decays. half-life: time lapsed for half the number of radiocarbon atoms in a given sample, to decay, It can be shown that: = = radiocarbon mean- or average-life = 8033 years (Libby value) = = radiocarbon half-life = 5568 years (Libby value) Notice that dates are customarily given in years BP which implies t(BP) = -t because the time arrow for dates runs in reverse direction from the time arrow for the corresponding ages. From these considerations and the above equation, it results: For a raw radiocarbon date: and for a raw radiocarbon age: After replacing values, the raw radiocarbon age becomes any of the following equivalent formulae: using logs base e and the average life: and using logs base 2 and the half-life: [edit] Speleothem studies in the Bahamas extend C14 calibration Relatively recent (2001) evidence has allowed scientists to refine the knowledge of one of the underlying assumptions. A peak in the amount of carbon-14 was discovered by scientists studying speleothems in caves in the Bahamas. Stalagmites are calcium carbonate deposits left behind when seepage water, containing dissolved carbon dioxide, evaporates. Carbon-14 levels were found to be twice as high as modern levels.[1] These discoveries improved the calibration for the radiocarbon technique and extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past. [2] [edit] References ^ http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/5/5/7/1 Katie Pennicott, Carbon clock could show the wrong time, PhysicsWeb, 10 May 2001 ^ Mari N. Jensen, By studying a stalagmite from a cave in the Bahamas, UA researchers provide a more accurate way for radiocarbon dating to find the ages of ancient artifacts., in http://www.physics.arizona.edu/physics/ ... tizen.html, The University of Arizona, Department of Physics (2001) J. R. Arnold and W. F. Libby, "Age Determinations by Radiocarbon Content: Checks with Samples of Known Age", Science, Vol. 110 (1949). Bowman, Sheridan, Interpreting the Past: Radiocarbon Dating, University of California Press, 1990, ISBN 0-520-07037-2 Currie, Lloyd. The Remarkable Metrological History of Radiocarbon Dating [II]. [5] Michael Friedrich, Sabine Remmele, Bernd Kromer, Jutta Hofmann, Marco Spurk, Klaus Felix Kaiser, Christian Orcel, Manfred Küppers: "The 12,460-Year Hohenheim Oak and Pine Tree-Ring Chronology from Central Europe—a Unique Annual Record for Radiocarbon Calibration and Paleoenvironment Reconstructions", Radiocarbon 46/3, S. 1111-1122 (2004). Harry E. Gove: From Hiroshima to the Iceman. The Development and Applications of Accelerator Mass Spectrometry. Bristol: Institute of Physics Publishing, 1999. Kovar, Anton J. Problems in Radiocarbon Dating at Teotihuacan. American Antiquity, Vol. 31, No. 3, Part 1 (Jan., 1966) , pp. 427-430 [6]. Libby, W. F., Radiocarbon Dating, 2nd ed. (Univ. of Chicago Press, Chicago, Ill.,. 175 pp., 1955). Lorenz,R. D., A. J. T .Jull, J. I. Lunine and T. Swindle (2002),Radiocarbon on Titan, Meteoritics and Planetary Science, 37, 867-874 Mook, Willem G and van der Plicht, Johannes (1999), "Reporting 14C activities and concentrations", Radiocarbon 41: 227–239. [7] [8] The Discovery of Global Warming, by Spencer Weart [9] Willis E.H. (1996), Radiocarbon dating in Cambridge: some personal recollections. A Worm's Eye View of the Early Days, [10] [edit] External links Radiocarbon - The main international journal of record for research articles and date lists relevant to 14C C14dating.com - General information on Radiocarbon dating NOSAMS: National Ocean Sciences Accelerator Mass Spectrometry Facility at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Several calibration programs can be found at www.radiocarbon.org CalPal - Cologne Radiocarbon Calibration & Paleoclimate Research Package OxCal (Oxford Calibration) program Discussion of calibration Fairbanks' Radiocarbon age to calendar age conversion program CalPal Online Further basic information on radiocarbon dating (PDF)
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twansenne
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:08 am |
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Bigdog @ Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:20 am wrote: Consider this.......When he went to bed last night everything was normal. Upon waking something seemed wrong.
Perhaps it is the weather....
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Guest
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:39 am |
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Again, :whistle: you missed the point. The carbon dating was used to say that it just didn't start dieing. It has been for as long a poor quality KJs couldn't keep the entire crowd, including the non singers entertained.  So how long ago did it start dieing on the left coast?  Years ago???? 
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:03 am |
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I wonder if it's possible to hit the maximum allowable post message length of 10000 characters in this stretched thread on only one line horizontally. Not that I'm feeling quite that ambitious. Just a thought because I'm bored. This has got to be the widest thread I've ever seen (and I've chatted in bbs's a LONG time). I've always been curious as to how many wpm (words per mile *linear*) I could type. I won't do that here however. People will just get annoyed and fed up scrolling horizontally reading my inane gabbing. I wonder if this final sentence will stretch this thread even wider ? or whether or not it will appear on a second line
WOW. This is crazier than a tick in hot asphalt.
_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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twansenne
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:06 am |
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Bigdog @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:39 am wrote: Again, :whistle: you missed the point. The carbon dating was used to say that it just didn't start dieing. Even narrowing it down to say 20 years, for argument sake, would be impossible using carbon dating. http://contenderministries.org/evolution/carbon14.php wrote: Carbon-14 dating is the standard method used by scientists to determine the age of certain fossilized remains. As scientists will often claim something to be millions or billions of years old (ages that do not conform to the Biblical account of the age of the earth), Christians are often left wondering about the accuracy of the carbon-14 method. The truth is, carbon-14 dating (or radiocarbon dating, as it’s also called) is not a precise dating method in many cases, due to faulty assumptions and other limitations on this method.
Carbon has a weight of twelve atomic mass units (AMU’s), and is the building block of all organic matter (plants and animals). A small percentage of carbon atoms have an atomic weight of 14 AMU’s. This is carbon-14. Carbon-14 is an unstable, radioactive isotope of carbon 12. As with any radioactive isotope, carbon-14 decays over time. The half-life of carbon 14 is approximate 5,730 years. That means if you took one pound of 100 percent carbon-14, in 5,730 years, you would only have half a pound left.
Carbon-14 is created in the upper atmosphere as nitrogen atoms are bombarded by cosmic radiation. For every one trillion carbon-12 atoms, you will find one carbon-14 atoms. The carbon-14 that results from the reaction caused by cosmic radiation quickly changes to carbon dioxide, just like normal carbon-12 would. Plants utilize, or “breath in” carbon dioxide, then ultimately release oxygen for animals to inhale. The carbon-14 dioxide is utilized by plants in the same way normal carbon dioxide is. This carbon-14 dioxide then ends up in humans and other animals as it moves up the food chain.
There is then a ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the bodies of plants, humans, and other animals that can fluctuate, but will be fixed at the time of death. After death, the carbon-14 would begin to decay at the rate stated above. In 1948, Dr. W.F. Libby introduced the carbon-14 dating method at the University of Chicago. The premise behind the method is to determine the ratio of carbon-14 left in organic matter, and by doing so, estimate how long ago death occurred by running the ratio backwards. The accuracy of this method, however, relies on several faulty assumptions.
First, for carbon-14 dating to be accurate, one must assume the rate of decay of carbon-14 has remained constant over the years. However, evidence indicates that the opposite is true. Experiments have been performed using the radioactive isotopes of uranium-238 and iron-57, and have shown that rates can and do vary. In fact, changing the environments surrounding the samples can alter decay rates.
The second faulty assumption is that the rate of carbon-14 formation has remained constant over the years. There are a few reasons to believe this assumption is erroneous. The industrial revolution greatly increased the amount of carbon-12 released into the atmosphere through the burning of coal. Also, the atomic bomb testing around 1950 caused a rise in neutrons, which increased carbon-14 concentrations. The great flood which Noah and family survived would have uprooted and/or buried entire forests. This would decrease the release of carbon-12 to the atmosphere through the decay of vegetation.
Third, for carbon-14 dating to be accurate, the concentrations of carbon-14 and carbon-12 must have remained constant in the atmosphere. In addition to the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph, the flood provides another evidence that this is a faulty assumption. During the flood, subterranean water chambers that were under great pressure would have been breached. This would have resulted in an enormous amount of carbon-12 being released into the oceans and atmosphere. The effect would be not unlike opening a can of soda and having the carbon dioxide fizzing out. The water in these subterranean chambers would not have contained carbon-14, as the water was shielded from cosmic radiation. This would have upset the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12.
To make carbon-14 dating work, Dr. Libby also assumed that the amount of carbon-14 being presently produced had equaled the amount of carbon-12 – he assumed that they had reached a balance. The formation of carbon-14 increases with time, and at the time of creation was probably at or near zero. Since carbon-14 is radioactive, it begins to decay immediately as it’s formed. If you start with no carbon-14 in the atmosphere, it would take over 50,000 years for the amount being produced to reach equilibrium with the amount decaying. One of the reasons we know that the earth is less than 50,000 years old is because of the biblical record. Another reason we can know this is because the amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere is only 78% what it would be if the earth were old.
Finally, Dr. Libby and the evolutionist crowd have assumed that all plant and animal life utilize carbon-14 equally as they do carbon-12. To be grammatically crass, this ain’t necessarily so. Live mollusks off the Hawaiian coast have had their shells dated with the carbon-14 method. These test showed that the shells died 2000 years ago! This news came as quite a shock to the mollusks that had been using those shells until just recently.
We’ve listed five faulty assumptions here that have caused overestimates of age using the carbon-14 method. The list of non-compliant dates from this method is endless. Most evolutionists today would conclude that carbon-14 dating is – at best – reliable for only the last 3000 to 3500 years. There is another reason that carbon-14 dating has yielded questionable results – human bias.
If you’ve ever been part of a medical study, you’re probably familiar with the terms “blind study” and “double-blind study”. In a blind study, using carbon-14 dating for example, a person would send in a few quality control samples along with the actual sample to the laboratory. The laboratory analyst should not know which sample is the one of interest. In this way, the analyst could not introduce bias into the dating of the actual sample. In a double-blind study (using an experimental drug study as an example), some patients will be given the experimental drug, while others will be given a placebo (a harmless sugar pill). Neither the patients nor the doctors while know who gets what. This provides an added layer of protection against bias.
Radiocarbon dates that do not fit a desired theory are often excluded by alleging cross-contamination of the sample. In this manner, an evolutionist can present a sample for analysis, and tell the laboratory that he assumes the sample to be somewhere between 50,000 years old and 100,000 years old. Dates that do not conform to this estimate are thrown out. Repeated testing of the sample may show nine tests that indicate an age of 5000 to 10,000 years old, and one test that shows an age of 65,000 years old. The nine results showing ages that do not conform to the pre-supposed theory are excluded. This is bad science, and it is practiced all the time to fit with the evolutionary model.
The Shroud of Turin, claimed to be the burial cloth of Christ, was supposedly dated by a blind test. Actually, the control specimens were so dissimilar that the technicians at the three laboratories making the measurements could easily tell which specimen was from the Shroud. This would be like taking a piece of wood and two marbles and submitting them to the lab with the instructions that “one of these is from an ancient ponderosa pine, guess which.” The test would have been blind if the specimens had been reduced to carbon powder before they were given to the testing laboratories. Humans are naturally biased. We tend to see what we want to see, and explain away unwanted data.
Perhaps the best description of the problem in attempting to use the Carbon-14 dating method is to be found in the words of Dr. Robert Lee. In 1981, he wrote an article for the Anthropological Journal of Canada, in which stated:
"The troubles of the radiocarbon dating method are undeniably deep and serious. Despite 35 years of technological refinement and better understanding, the underlying assumptions have been strongly challenged, and warnings are out that radiocarbon may soon find itself in a crisis situation. Continuing use of the method depends on a fix-it-as-we-go approach, allowing for contamination here, fractionation there, and calibration whenever possible. It should be no surprise then, that fully half of the dates are rejected. The wonder is, surely, that the remaining half has come to be accepted…. No matter how useful it is, though, the radiocarbon method is still not capable of yielding accurate and reliable results. There are gross discrepancies, the chronology is uneven and relative, and the accepted dates are actually the selected dates.”
The accuracy of carbon-14 dating relies on faulty assumptions, and is subject to human bias. At best, radiocarbon dating is only accurate for the past few thousand years. As we’ve seen though, even relatively youthful samples are often dated incorrectly. The Biblical record gives us an indication of an earth that is relatively young. The most reliable use of radiocarbon dating supports that position. This method of dating, overall, tends to be as faulty and ill conceived as the
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twansenne
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:10 am |
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:03 pm
Posts: 1921
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Location: N. Central Iowa
Been Liked: 53 times
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Steven Kaplan @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:03 am wrote: I wonder if it's possible to hit the maximum allowable post message length of 10000 characters in this stretched thread on only one line horizontally. Not that I'm feeling quite that ambitious. Just a thought because I'm bored. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm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twansenne
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:14 am |
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:03 pm
Posts: 1921
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Location: N. Central Iowa
Been Liked: 53 times
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Steven Kaplan @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:03 am wrote: I wonder if it's possible to hit the maximum allowable post message length of 10000 characters in this stretched thread on only one line horizontally. Not that I'm feeling quite that ambitious. Just a thought because I'm bored. This has got to be the widest thread I've ever seen (and I've chatted in bbs's a LONG time). I've always been curious as to how many wpm (words per mile *linear*) I could type. I won't do that here however. People will just get annoyed and fed up scrolling horizontally reading my inane gabbing. I wonder if this final sentence will stretch this thread even wider ? or whether or not it will appear on a second line
Think I need to change my signature LOL LOL LMAO LMAO :O
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:20 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm
Posts: 13645
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This is wild Anthony. But somehow I'm not too confident this is the type of site expansion that will thrill administration LMAO
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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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twansenne
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:35 am |
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:03 pm
Posts: 1921
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Location: N. Central Iowa
Been Liked: 53 times
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Steven Kaplan @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:20 am wrote: This is wild Anthony. But somehow I'm not too confident this is the type of site expansion that will thrill administration LMAO
About as annoying as BD postings, IMHO of course
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Shotgun CC
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:55 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:59 am
Posts: 1174
Location: Upstate Northeastern NY
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Isis
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:45 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:11 am
Posts: 2641
Location: Seattle, WA
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Steven Kaplan @ Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:03 am wrote: I wonder if it's possible to hit the maximum allowable post message length of 10000 characters in this stretched thread on only one line horizontally. Not that I'm feeling quite that ambitious. Just a thought because I'm bored. This has got to be the widest thread I've ever seen (and I've chatted in bbs's a LONG time). I've always been curious as to how many wpm (words per mile *linear*) I could type. I won't do that here however. People will just get annoyed and fed up scrolling horizontally reading my inane gabbing. I wonder if this final sentence will stretch this thread even wider ? or whether or not it will appear on a second line
WOW. This is crazier than a tick in hot asphalt.
Kappy, you just proved that we need a page left and page right keys on our computers.....
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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:19 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm
Posts: 13645
Been Liked: 11 times
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Quote: Kappy, you just proved that we need a page left and page right keys on our computers.....
I knew that ! YES I DID :shock: <petting self on shoulder>
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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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twansenne
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:14 am |
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:03 pm
Posts: 1921
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Location: N. Central Iowa
Been Liked: 53 times
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Isn't all this off-topic chatter GREAT!!!!!!!!!
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Isis
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:44 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:11 am
Posts: 2641
Location: Seattle, WA
Been Liked: 1 time
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I thought we were just being good little posters......
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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!
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