Karaoke Forums

As far as I understand, the JFF subs were being bashed as well, where no ranking is allowed.  I think if a "slap in the face" is given, it's probably due.

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In all honesty, if things remained the same for me as they do now, I would probably NEVER use the delete button.  I have always been treated with respect and when I did get a few catty remarks from people who took on a new identity just to do so, I took it with a grain of salt.  I delete my subs and record new ones all the time anyway, so it's no biggie for me.  And I think most of us do respect one another and know what buttons not to push, BUT there are some incidences where misunderstandings occur or sometimes they're very intentionally trying to hurt you...so wouldn't it be nice to just block them from doing that?  That's all I'm sayin'.

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yes it would be nice, and I agree with you 100% Luly!!  :hi5:

It would sure make me feel much better about posting my recordings and being a paid member!!! ...Knowing that no one could harrass me while Im here to simply have fun!!

Im with you dear Luly!!  

Well, good night for now Steven and Neo.  I'm pooped.  :asleep:

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Good night, Im tired too.  :asleep:

Thank you Neo, that's my point.  For those of us that "just wanna have fun" and not get harassed while doing so, this is the perfect little tool.  And if you put your sub up for critique and don't like what is said, you should have that tool as well.  You don't HAVE to use it, but it's good to know it exists.

Ok, that's it!!! I'm outta here tonight!!  :asleep:

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Jesse and Luly,  I'd agree with what you two are stating in an environment that didn't have OTHER means of carrying over these grudges.  Problem is, assuming you have the "remove" option,  that means you must revise the WHOLE current ranking system, and Critique system (and assuming such a big change is going to be agreed to by administration is a HUGE assumption) But what I'm stating is that assuming it's undercurrent that's the problem here (which is causing the exploitation of a setup that works in more mature environments although such environments I've seen them work in are strictly moderated, SS and KS aren't setup the same way, these are smaller SERIOUS artist sites, not JFF, as has been stated, SS isn't really JUST a karaoke site, it's individuals singing the listeners are honing in on, but SS is a place where many seeing scrutiny don't wish to, it's JUST a place where MANY want to enjoy themselves in a care-free environment without negative or intense issues.  Seems the demeanor is JFF in SS overall, and visible Critique has been a thorn in the sites side).  

Here's my concern..

Hypothetical but typical (any resemblances to real-life KS names totally coincidental)

  Kappy leaves Jesse/Neo a comment.  Jesse doesn't agree with Kappy's comment, or feels it's not apropriate because he's in a bad mood or takes it in context not intended and feels it's a dig.  Jesse removes Kappy's comment. Kappy and Jesse SHOULD do the mature thing and talk it over in PM, but do they ?  Hell no. Kappy goes into Discussion Forum and starts thread "What a bunch of babies over in SS, No SOH"... Kappy feels rejected, so like a few others have done he waits patiently for Jesse to sub a song over in Critique category.  Being mature, Kappy gives Jesse a "3".  Now assuming Jesse can remove that fine.  These grudges in SS go on and on like this. You must revise ALL the categories.  Realistically,  A great way to tease a person in such a system is for the rejected party to keep leaving comments knowing they will be removed just to tease..as in HAHAHA it's me again NANANA, thought you could get rid of me ?  BOOO !  (you'd be better off with a general disallow or ignore function, but that's not going to happen) Now remove a critique ?  Might as well remove the whole category because realistically EVERY SINGLE PERSON that receives critiques at some point in their life loathes the critique that really will make a difference down the road.  People in SS aren't tough enough to handle critique.. If *John Doe* gives you (you being hypothetical) a true honest critique, given the SS mood as it currently exists it's VERY unlikely in most cases such a critique will NOT be removed.  If you ask for a critique it's counterproductive to have total control over the setting.  How many actors get to screen their audience insuring nobody will BOO during their show ?  Let's be serious,  if you wish for critique to exist, it's not right to pad a crib... The process IS for the tougher folks.  It's wrong to reject a person who gives you an honest critique because you don't like it..  It's counterproductive, and what you really should do as ax the category instead..

Assuming you protect the whole SS environment, and allow all to pick and choose each step of the way who comments and who doesn't.. This system MIGHT work, of course there will still be carry over into the bboards, and people will say "How come so few listen to my subs".... (not taking into consideration that they disallowed 3 out've 6 commenting parties, or the ones that didn't say "You rewl dude 10+++"

You know what this reminds me of ?  The NRA debates....

NRA=  Problem isn't the comments, critique category or rank, it's the people
           Why ruin it for those of us that are qualified to handle it


Mother of kid with two bullet holes in each foot from loaded gun dad left in candy dish=


           Critiques are dangerous !   My son has no feet !  Ban them.

Now neither individual is actually wrong from their perspective.  Problem is how can Critique and comment work in a setting where people can't handle seeing them ? If you want to keep it friendly, KEEP IT FRIENDLY.. No need to eliminate anybody. In such a setting UNFRIENDLY comments can be deleted by a moderator just like unfriendly posts can be deleted in these bboards.  They will be deleted by an anonymous moderator who has such an ability.. Just like these bboards, SS will be a place where everything must be friendly and civil. There will be no criticism. Currently you have the option anyway of presenting yourself AFTER your unfriendly listener says something.  If all have the ability to moderate their own SS venues I see more problems arising, more animosity brewing, and it's really just a NY city cabride of a means of "Keeping all comments friendly".. Leaves little partiality to a moderator, plain and simple "Mods will make certain EVERYONE plays in a friendly manner" otherwise the problem will carry over as I see it.  It's not the current system, the problem is that the loudest portion of the membership can't handle the freedom allowed, and immaturity is undermining the few that deserve the feature !


   The problem is really getting this ugly.  People are the problem, and comment boxes have become the weapon.   Now what ?  This is the angle I'm viewing this from anyway <shrug>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Good night you two.  I'm exhausted too.   Knock on my monitor if anybody brings up something regarding this stuff...LONG LONG days here.. Back in court tomorrow...
Night Vicki... Not enough hours in a day these days for me to be awake all my daytime, and your daytime  LMAO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Good arguments Steven.

I can see that you are speaking from your experience here and from what you learned in the past.

So, as it looks now there is no answer to this. I'll be careful how I sub in the future.

A fuction that I would love to se in SS is a PM button.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Awww Kappy the mere mention of my name on your lips does silly topsy turvey butterfly thingys to my  :doctor:

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I had a coughing fit and couldn't sleep, so I came back.  Lord, am I addicted or what???  LOL


Steven, yes those in fact are very good points.  However, with or without the delete option, people gripe about stuff in the forums anyway, so there would not be any change there.

If anything, we should not allow comments to be edited at all.  Think hard before you make your post because it will be there for all to see and that will speak for itself.  And I'm saying that for both the commentor and the replier.

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Incidentally, and unrelated, have you ever noticed when you are notified that you have a PM via audio announcement between Elmer Fudd and that sexy voice one of them sounds unmistakably like the voice of Simon Cowell? (Cue: Eerie theremin music....)

Scared the stuffin' outta me the first time I heard that!!

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Ok....I'm walking away from the computer.....

I will not be back til tomorrow......

Seriously!!!  LOL

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By this logic, people could CURRENTLY choose to submit in the "L" "Comment" and "Critique" categories as well, because "there's something for everybody' ! and what's better, nothing is impeded by over-moderation !   It's free for ALL who know their boundaries !! AND by this same logic when there are disputes PM the person prior to blowing up in a public venue or carrying things over here, THIS has ALWAYS been the preferrable option, yet they are ideal concepts, this topic goes on and on asking to limit choice because of a few exploiting freedoms allowed, In-fact many complaining are just observers who can ignore these issues, but they become brawls and spread like wildfires.  Think about it.  Is the problem REALLY the current setup ?  Nope,  It's quite ideal for all as is. When a person finds Critique is tough to take, the have the option of stating in their comment box, I'd appreciate friendly comments only, I'm trying to recover for the PTSS incurred as the result of subbing in the "Critique" category.. ALL these options have really existed. What can be easier than finding out what the term Critique means prior to subbing in critique areas ?  or knowing whether or not you can handle one prior to subbing in those areas ?  The only way SS can work among such controversy is to turn it into some police state, or severely limit the individuals options so they can't hurt or get hurt.  It's really gotten that immature..  People currently CAN and have always been able to NOT visit subs if they don't like you... All these options have always stood, and MORE..

If the problem is the people, they problems won't stop by axing them from your site.. That will add fuel to a fire that will spread to the bboards ~

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That is the only fair way to expose the rare few nutters Luly. No edit and no ability to delete a comment once its posted

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

This will be worse than the Ebay feedback rooms than....

Rather than the volunteers having to hear...      (Buyer whining)
                                                                 "I bid on an item two days ago, and
                                                                 haven't received it yet so I left the
                                                                 seller negative feedback.  I can't
                                                                 understand why the seller is annoyed
                                                                 at me, can one of you please tell
                                                                 me how to remove the NEG.  I was
                                                                 just anxious to get my item. Now the
                                                                 Seller is calling me unreasonable."
                           

OR:                                                             "Hey Mod,  can you remove the
                                                                   remarks I left about the singer
                                                                   sounding as if their privates were
                                                                   caught in the sink disposal ?  I meant
                                                                   that to be funny, however they must
                                                                   have personal issues"


Again,  the problem isn't going to be resolved in such a way that people are left with
as many options as they currently have.  Seems it'd be just as easy for those that REALLY want a Critique and rank category to tell those exploiting the system

"deal with it, We like it.... Stop whining.. instead SUB IN  L or comment, you are bringing these probs on yourself... Chill for awhile, step back and don't let ANYBODY comment if you are having probs with others taking shots at  you, wait til stuff passes".

 Wouldn't THAT be the more reasonable solution ?  Reason being, in taking sides against one-another in these disputes and blaming the venue, it's the venue that will have to limit altercations.  Why haven't the members been able to self-moderate ?
Seems that the atmosphere is nicely set currently for those that CAN deal with such freedoms.  Is SS really the problem ?  Or is it people subbing in the "Critique" category without even knowing what the term means, blowing up over those giving them a critique, yet continuing to sub in that category ?   This is something I NEVER understood.  To me this is plain WRONG.  I know of quite a few I've seen doing this too !

Unfortuneately we live in a world where people that are angry at you, are going to get crafty.  You can ask them to leave you alone, if that doesn't work you can ask the police to ask them to stay away from you..  But if they live close enough to you they WILL leave you alone.... AND take up the violin to torture your dog... Try getting the cops to deal with that ...  Sometimes self policing is the best way to do things, settle battles without allowing SS to become a larger battleground, etc... Those that are mature have always had the option of trying to control SS environment themselves... Haven't they ?    We ALL get caught up in this stuff, and it's tough... but sometimes the changes we are requesting aren't really what's going to solve the problem... Personality issues always exist.. political stuff is TOUGH to avoid...

and I'm going to bed before I start typing too much  LOL

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'll show you something:

If you are commenting/critiquing on a person's sub and you have a feeling the advice you give may not be what the person it is being applied to would like to be seen by others do this:  When giving critiques (especially to people who are new and don't know me well or I don't know well), I will generally start out with a general impression of the overall submission and other good points.  When it comes to things that I perceived could use improvement as I type, at that point I enter this character:  <  and anything I type after that is not seen by anyone other than the person I am commenting on and myself.  

It is very useful and is something that could be easily used without any modifications done to the SS site itself. Luly had asked me to explain this further as I had only alluded to how to do it earlier.

This is just a guess so it means nothing but I'll bet people sub in the "C" catagory because they want to be ranked. Ranking is not an option otherwise I think.